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> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible

> I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting. What about all the people who already knew spending 2 hours commuting was a terrible use of our time before the pandemic, regardless of how much of a bigger house we could get? So we lived in dense cities, in walkable neighborhoods, where the office was a 15 minute walk away but so were restaurants, parks, grocery stores, and theaters? But part of the exchange we made was that our houses/apartments were small, and were for LIVING not for working. We don't have a spare bedroom to turn into a segregated office, so instead the work/home life has been an overlapping mess for 2 years.

mdpye 5y ago
Surely you mean that the flat is for sleeping not living. They're too small for living, because all the living is done at the restaurants, bars, parks, theatres, offices and so on. If that's the style you prefer, then you need a co-working space to replace the office, in the same way your place probably isn't big enough to entertain people for dinner so you use a restaurant. And it's too dense with the neighbours to throw a proper party with dancing, so you use the bars and clubs. At least this is my understanding from having done a bit of both.
- deanCommie 5y ago
  No? I can still have people over, and I can still enjoy my hobbies at home. But I don't have a spare bedroom going unused that I can make an office. My office can only overlapping with my personal "fun" space.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
You can probably still go back to the office even if your colleagues work from home. And if not, there are probably coworking spaces, or similar. Why must there be a one-size-fits-all situation? Also, if WfH spreads, many of the people who made the same choice, getting a small apartment in a dense city for living only, will probably make a different choice now and move somewhere else. I know many people who did just that. I expect this will lower the prices of housing in cities, which means you could live in a bigger apartment if you wanted.
- IMTDb 5y ago
  Because as soon as one person in the team is remote, the whole team needs to organise around that. Think of a 5 person team where 1 is remote and the others aren't. Your daily standup ? can't do that quickly at your desk, you need to find a room and setup visio. Going on lunch and discussing about your project ? Too bad. Got an idea you ran by a colleague at the coffee machine ? Now you need to setup a call or get everything in writing for the 4th dude. A state of the project on a whiteboard in the office ? No, you need to use Jira. The only option here is either having a member of the team always one step behind, or changing the entire organisation of the team to revolve around that guy. People who prefer "in-office" work would rather make the effort of commuting so that they do not have to deal with that. So they expect the other people in their team to do the same, otherwise there is little to no point.
  - 88913527 5y ago
    I dislike this comment because it implies remote workers are a burden. As soon as you have one on-site worker, you need a physical office space, security, and sanitation staff. These things are not free. Either type of worker imposes burdens when you objectively consider the fully loaded costs. I would argue adding a remote worker is lower cost because a Zoom call is cheaper than office rent and physical building maintenance.
    - IMTDb 5y ago
      Well...they are, for companies that have decided to be primarily office oriented, and have invested a lot in making that work. And similarly, office worker are a burden for remote oriented organisations because they incur costs that were not considered to be necessary. My point is that "let's invest in great offices for those who want, but let people do what they want regardless" is not really an option, because you are paying the organisational and financial price, and not really getting the benefits of either. I believe most organisation working in "hybrid" model will impose fixed days at the office - so they can get the full benefits of the "in-office" time. And let other days at home, so that people working better remotely can enjoy that as well. Teams will organise around that, eg by schedule most meetings on "in-office" days.
com2kid 5y ago
I made that deal then switched jobs and had an hour commute from my townhome. WfH means not needing to buy for commute. Buy for lifestyle. Still want to live urban? Get a co-working space.
asd4232 5y ago
You can always move away from that dense city. With booming property prices you should even profit in case you own the apartment, just sell it. I would also argue that small apartment can be very limiting also for living. I mean, sure, if you spend all your free time in those restaurants, parks, grocery stores and theaters, then it may actually work. But if you wanna do anything that requires personal space, then living in a small apartment is very limiting.

mdpye 5y ago

Surely you mean that the flat is for sleeping not living. They're too small for living, because all the living is done at the restaurants, bars, parks, theatres, offices and so on. If that's the style you prefer, then you need a co-working space to replace the office, in the same way your place probably isn't big enough to entertain people for dinner so you use a restaurant. And it's too dense with the neighbours to throw a proper party with dancing, so you use the bars and clubs. At least this is my understanding from having done a bit of both.

deanCommie 5y ago
No? I can still have people over, and I can still enjoy my hobbies at home. But I don't have a spare bedroom going unused that I can make an office. My office can only overlapping with my personal "fun" space.

vladvasiliu 5y ago

You can probably still go back to the office even if your colleagues work from home. And if not, there are probably coworking spaces, or similar. Why must there be a one-size-fits-all situation? Also, if WfH spreads, many of the people who made the same choice, getting a small apartment in a dense city for living only, will probably make a different choice now and move somewhere else. I know many people who did just that. I expect this will lower the prices of housing in cities, which means you could live in a bigger apartment if you wanted.

IMTDb 5y ago
Because as soon as one person in the team is remote, the whole team needs to organise around that. Think of a 5 person team where 1 is remote and the others aren't. Your daily standup ? can't do that quickly at your desk, you need to find a room and setup visio. Going on lunch and discussing about your project ? Too bad. Got an idea you ran by a colleague at the coffee machine ? Now you need to setup a call or get everything in writing for the 4th dude. A state of the project on a whiteboard in the office ? No, you need to use Jira. The only option here is either having a member of the team always one step behind, or changing the entire organisation of the team to revolve around that guy. People who prefer "in-office" work would rather make the effort of commuting so that they do not have to deal with that. So they expect the other people in their team to do the same, otherwise there is little to no point.
- 88913527 5y ago
  I dislike this comment because it implies remote workers are a burden. As soon as you have one on-site worker, you need a physical office space, security, and sanitation staff. These things are not free. Either type of worker imposes burdens when you objectively consider the fully loaded costs. I would argue adding a remote worker is lower cost because a Zoom call is cheaper than office rent and physical building maintenance.
  - IMTDb 5y ago
    Well...they are, for companies that have decided to be primarily office oriented, and have invested a lot in making that work. And similarly, office worker are a burden for remote oriented organisations because they incur costs that were not considered to be necessary. My point is that "let's invest in great offices for those who want, but let people do what they want regardless" is not really an option, because you are paying the organisational and financial price, and not really getting the benefits of either. I believe most organisation working in "hybrid" model will impose fixed days at the office - so they can get the full benefits of the "in-office" time. And let other days at home, so that people working better remotely can enjoy that as well. Teams will organise around that, eg by schedule most meetings on "in-office" days.

com2kid 5y ago

I made that deal then switched jobs and had an hour commute from my townhome. WfH means not needing to buy for commute. Buy for lifestyle. Still want to live urban? Get a co-working space.

asd4232 5y ago

You can always move away from that dense city. With booming property prices you should even profit in case you own the apartment, just sell it. I would also argue that small apartment can be very limiting also for living. I mean, sure, if you spend all your free time in those restaurants, parks, grocery stores and theaters, then it may actually work. But if you wanna do anything that requires personal space, then living in a small apartment is very limiting.