6 ms·

Every round I start in StS is unwinnable :(

WastingMyTime89 5y ago
For how good it is, the game does a terrible job teaching you how to play it properly. To win consistently you need to know the enemy patterns, what your next big challenges can counter, what the ? rooms are likely to be and when rare cards are likely to drop. Contrary to what beginners tend to do, it is more important to focus on overcoming your immediate upcoming challenges than focus on your synergies too early (for example you need damages fast at the beginning). Then the game looks easy at ascension level 1. Part of that is obscure knowledge can be acquired losing repeated, part is more obscure and you will only gain reading the wiki or watching streamers. I think that’s inherent to the nature of deck building game and fans of the genre like it this way. I feel ambivalent about it personally but I also have played two hundred enjoyable hours of Slay the Spire over the years.
- shadytrees 5y ago
  I agree with this: the game appears simple but there are some surprisingly complex interactions, and even pro players consult the wiki/spreadsheet/external resources during their runs. For example, only last month did Jorbs discover something new about how Gold-Plated Cables and Emotion Chip and Loop operate (something about how GPC fires earlier or later than Loop, which affects when you want to take damage during the Heart fight with Beat of Death going); on the last stream, he also ran into War Paint making Snecko Eye worse because it upgraded Dualcast to 0-cost, which means that the Apotheosis he had in his deck was unable to lower the cost of a e.g. 3-cost Dualcast+ (normally, Apothesois lowers a Snecko-randomized energy cost to the correct value when it upgrades a deck mid-fight). Keep in mind that this is someone who has >8000 hours put into this game, and these discoveries are still causing him to update his priors. Great game! Every decision matters!
- wly_cdgr 5y ago
  No...the game does a wonderful job of not teaching you to play it properly. Figuring out all those things on your own is the whole dang game!
  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    You are never going to figure out that the drop rate for rare cards go up by 1% every time a non rare is rolled from a base chance of -5% yet this is a critical information for pathing choice. It doesn’t matter at ascension 1 or 2 because they are easy (I have a 100% win rate at both and I am in no way a good player) but it gets critical later on. Same thing with some of the weirdest monster loops. The fact that the first three encounters of a floor are drawn from an easier pool and you should therefore aim for a fourth floor elite is never made clear. The game is full of information you will be hard pressed to figure out just by playing repeatedly. The fun of the game is making smart decision to neuter it’s randomness. The ramp up to reach this point is far too long. The sole reason I played hundreds of hour of this game is because I watched a stream of it semi-randomly. In my opinion that’s a flaw.
- lelandfe 5y ago
  Learning through repetition is part and parcel of the roguelike world, it’s the core mechanic for things Binding of Isaac and Enter the Gungeon. I think Slay the Spire is fairly accessible in spite of this, although “accessible” doesn’t necessarily mean one will win every run. I’ve never consulted a wiki or watched a stream and still have a grand old time playing.
tonetheman 5y ago
Yes this comment. I have never won either. I am not certain how many hours I have wasted trying too. Know that you are not alone brother!
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Unfortunately I played an easier clone of StS on my mobile before StS was released for androids. I loved that game and the pacing and then when I played StS it felt like a chore and needlessly difficult in comparison. So every round in StS also feels unwinnable for me haha
taeric 5y ago
:) Reminds me of the "every pizza is a personal pizza if you work hard and believe in yourself."
- ro_bit 5y ago
  Similarly, even if you work hard and believe in yourself, you will never find that ONE card you need to synergize your entire deck Then again, forcing yourself to look for cards that adhere to an StS archtype is a beginners trap itself.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
exdsq 5y ago
Took me a while to win but once I decided to stick on a strat from turn one (poison!) I won easily. from my very nooby position that seemed to be the thing for me - consistent strategy throughout the run
- croon 5y ago
- aloisdg 5y ago
  I would say that the easiest build are turtle build instead of raw damage (slam+block/ironclad, poison+block/silent, power+block/defect). Then you have the Watcher. I love mantra, stance and scry deck. But her raw easiest build is Pressure Point. You want a deck as small as possible (5 cards is enough) and mostly made of Pressure Points. Like you can have nothing else than 5 Pressure Points and it can close the run.
  - yyyk 5y ago
    You'd never reach this on a regular Ascension run, and it would probably still die against the Heart.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      Yeah, my problem is never figuring out what deck I want to build, it's managing to build a deck with synergies when I have zero clue what cards I might get and with very few options to remove cards from the deck; you can make up for a missing card by buying one from the merchants, but then you tend to lack the resources to remove cards.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  I think this is the big mistake new players make, they want to take every good card they see when really you should be skipping the majority of card drops,even if the card is good it probably isn't good for you right now.

For how good it is, the game does a terrible job teaching you how to play it properly. To win consistently you need to know the enemy patterns, what your next big challenges can counter, what the ? rooms are likely to be and when rare cards are likely to drop. Contrary to what beginners tend to do, it is more important to focus on overcoming your immediate upcoming challenges than focus on your synergies too early (for example you need damages fast at the beginning). Then the game looks easy at ascension level 1. Part of that is obscure knowledge can be acquired losing repeated, part is more obscure and you will only gain reading the wiki or watching streamers. I think that’s inherent to the nature of deck building game and fans of the genre like it this way. I feel ambivalent about it personally but I also have played two hundred enjoyable hours of Slay the Spire over the years.

shadytrees 5y ago
I agree with this: the game appears simple but there are some surprisingly complex interactions, and even pro players consult the wiki/spreadsheet/external resources during their runs. For example, only last month did Jorbs discover something new about how Gold-Plated Cables and Emotion Chip and Loop operate (something about how GPC fires earlier or later than Loop, which affects when you want to take damage during the Heart fight with Beat of Death going); on the last stream, he also ran into War Paint making Snecko Eye worse because it upgraded Dualcast to 0-cost, which means that the Apotheosis he had in his deck was unable to lower the cost of a e.g. 3-cost Dualcast+ (normally, Apothesois lowers a Snecko-randomized energy cost to the correct value when it upgrades a deck mid-fight). Keep in mind that this is someone who has >8000 hours put into this game, and these discoveries are still causing him to update his priors. Great game! Every decision matters!
wly_cdgr 5y ago
No...the game does a wonderful job of not teaching you to play it properly. Figuring out all those things on your own is the whole dang game!
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  You are never going to figure out that the drop rate for rare cards go up by 1% every time a non rare is rolled from a base chance of -5% yet this is a critical information for pathing choice. It doesn’t matter at ascension 1 or 2 because they are easy (I have a 100% win rate at both and I am in no way a good player) but it gets critical later on. Same thing with some of the weirdest monster loops. The fact that the first three encounters of a floor are drawn from an easier pool and you should therefore aim for a fourth floor elite is never made clear. The game is full of information you will be hard pressed to figure out just by playing repeatedly. The fun of the game is making smart decision to neuter it’s randomness. The ramp up to reach this point is far too long. The sole reason I played hundreds of hour of this game is because I watched a stream of it semi-randomly. In my opinion that’s a flaw.
lelandfe 5y ago
Learning through repetition is part and parcel of the roguelike world, it’s the core mechanic for things Binding of Isaac and Enter the Gungeon. I think Slay the Spire is fairly accessible in spite of this, although “accessible” doesn’t necessarily mean one will win every run. I’ve never consulted a wiki or watched a stream and still have a grand old time playing.

tonetheman 5y ago

Yes this comment. I have never won either. I am not certain how many hours I have wasted trying too. Know that you are not alone brother!

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Unfortunately I played an easier clone of StS on my mobile before StS was released for androids. I loved that game and the pacing and then when I played StS it felt like a chore and needlessly difficult in comparison. So every round in StS also feels unwinnable for me haha

taeric 5y ago

:) Reminds me of the "every pizza is a personal pizza if you work hard and believe in yourself."

ro_bit 5y ago
Similarly, even if you work hard and believe in yourself, you will never find that ONE card you need to synergize your entire deck Then again, forcing yourself to look for cards that adhere to an StS archtype is a beginners trap itself.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

exdsq 5y ago

Took me a while to win but once I decided to stick on a strat from turn one (poison!) I won easily. from my very nooby position that seemed to be the thing for me - consistent strategy throughout the run

croon 5y ago
aloisdg 5y ago
I would say that the easiest build are turtle build instead of raw damage (slam+block/ironclad, poison+block/silent, power+block/defect). Then you have the Watcher. I love mantra, stance and scry deck. But her raw easiest build is Pressure Point. You want a deck as small as possible (5 cards is enough) and mostly made of Pressure Points. Like you can have nothing else than 5 Pressure Points and it can close the run.
- yyyk 5y ago
  You'd never reach this on a regular Ascension run, and it would probably still die against the Heart.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Yeah, my problem is never figuring out what deck I want to build, it's managing to build a deck with synergies when I have zero clue what cards I might get and with very few options to remove cards from the deck; you can make up for a missing card by buying one from the merchants, but then you tend to lack the resources to remove cards.
thatguy0900 5y ago
I think this is the big mistake new players make, they want to take every good card they see when really you should be skipping the majority of card drops,even if the card is good it probably isn't good for you right now.