4 ms·

I think such an office environment leads to lower productivity. I too present no evidence for this claim. Personally I think I’m right! We should do it my way.

erosenbe0 5y ago
There are no firm answers. Consider health effects. Some of my colleagues struggled to maintain their health without their daily walks to the train, or just overworked themselves adapting to remote meetings and tools. Others are physically and mentally much healthier after substituting extra sleep, exercise, or preparation of healthy meals for the commute time.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  There's absolutely nothing stopping those people from choosing to go on daily walks.
  - ceras 5y ago
    Something is stopping them, otherwise they'd do it. Even if that's purely psychological, that's no less real to them, and the outcomes are clear. A close analogy might be weight loss: "nothing" is stopping anyone from eating less, yet most Americans eat more than they should.
    - andrewingram 5y ago
      Right. Going to the office meant a baseline of 7,000 steps a day, plus quite a few flights of stairs. Plus it was easy to go to salsa and gym after work (because I was already out of the house, so it was easier to to talk myself into going). I struggle to do any of those things when i'm remote. I know perfectly well that I physically can, but that psychological inertia is extremely powerful.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Personal discipline, or the lack of, is a thing. Plenty of people benefit from imposed structure in their lives. Yes, it's bad, yes, it's sad, but that's life. It's not all idealism and dreams.
electriclizard 5y ago
It leads to me wanting to kill myself more often and needing to invest more time in therapy, commutes, and recovery. And over half the engineers I've spoken with, who drop their facade, feel the same. Being stuck in a chair all day with people watching you is not a good life. Being forced to adhere to arbitrary social convention instead of speaking sincerely and expressing yourself is not a good life. Choosing to lay in bed, work in the sun, recline on the couch, say hi to your cat, be your most authentic self, is a better life. Personally not dealing with the anxiety and body pain makes me more productive. But maybe everyone is right and we can get more productivity out of people by gutting their personalities and self-appreciation; but if that's the cost, I sincerely do not care. I'd rather everyone enjoy their short lives than spend them colorlessly and regret their choices on their deathbeds.
- engineeringwoke 5y ago
  How does not being around other people make you your "most authentic" self? We are only human through others. Every word you've ever spoken, every thought you've ever had, is codified in a language that was created over hundreds of thousands of years by people attempting to communicate. Are you anything without that language? It is a description of how you think. I wish it wasn't so popular for people in tech with mental issues to project them onto everyone else, instead of looking at the early family life that made them. Your parents failed if you are so afraid of the other. It is not everyone else's fault that they don't hate people.
  - shrimp_emoji 5y ago
    Putting on clothing with collars and buttons is a huge hit to my sense of "authenticity", to start. You feel pressured to to put on airs, deal with smalltalk, etc.
    - engineeringwoke 5y ago
      But it's only putting on airs and small talk to you. Why is your perception normal and the regular one "fake"? I grew up thinking like you did, in a household of people like this, and there couldn't be anything further from the truth. It's a projection of an insecurity around being unable to control the people around you.
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
But you're wrong.....

erosenbe0 5y ago

There are no firm answers. Consider health effects. Some of my colleagues struggled to maintain their health without their daily walks to the train, or just overworked themselves adapting to remote meetings and tools. Others are physically and mentally much healthier after substituting extra sleep, exercise, or preparation of healthy meals for the commute time.

heavyset_go 5y ago
There's absolutely nothing stopping those people from choosing to go on daily walks.
- ceras 5y ago
  Something is stopping them, otherwise they'd do it. Even if that's purely psychological, that's no less real to them, and the outcomes are clear. A close analogy might be weight loss: "nothing" is stopping anyone from eating less, yet most Americans eat more than they should.
  - andrewingram 5y ago
    Right. Going to the office meant a baseline of 7,000 steps a day, plus quite a few flights of stairs. Plus it was easy to go to salsa and gym after work (because I was already out of the house, so it was easier to to talk myself into going). I struggle to do any of those things when i'm remote. I know perfectly well that I physically can, but that psychological inertia is extremely powerful.
- oblio 5y ago
  Personal discipline, or the lack of, is a thing. Plenty of people benefit from imposed structure in their lives. Yes, it's bad, yes, it's sad, but that's life. It's not all idealism and dreams.

electriclizard 5y ago

It leads to me wanting to kill myself more often and needing to invest more time in therapy, commutes, and recovery. And over half the engineers I've spoken with, who drop their facade, feel the same. Being stuck in a chair all day with people watching you is not a good life. Being forced to adhere to arbitrary social convention instead of speaking sincerely and expressing yourself is not a good life. Choosing to lay in bed, work in the sun, recline on the couch, say hi to your cat, be your most authentic self, is a better life. Personally not dealing with the anxiety and body pain makes me more productive. But maybe everyone is right and we can get more productivity out of people by gutting their personalities and self-appreciation; but if that's the cost, I sincerely do not care. I'd rather everyone enjoy their short lives than spend them colorlessly and regret their choices on their deathbeds.

engineeringwoke 5y ago
How does not being around other people make you your "most authentic" self? We are only human through others. Every word you've ever spoken, every thought you've ever had, is codified in a language that was created over hundreds of thousands of years by people attempting to communicate. Are you anything without that language? It is a description of how you think. I wish it wasn't so popular for people in tech with mental issues to project them onto everyone else, instead of looking at the early family life that made them. Your parents failed if you are so afraid of the other. It is not everyone else's fault that they don't hate people.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  Putting on clothing with collars and buttons is a huge hit to my sense of "authenticity", to start. You feel pressured to to put on airs, deal with smalltalk, etc.
  - engineeringwoke 5y ago
    But it's only putting on airs and small talk to you. Why is your perception normal and the regular one "fake"? I grew up thinking like you did, in a household of people like this, and there couldn't be anything further from the truth. It's a projection of an insecurity around being unable to control the people around you.

tick_tock_tick 5y ago

But you're wrong.....