9 ms·

does going remote impact one's salary?

ASinclair 5y ago
Yes, it's based on where you work. Though you can work remote from the same city as your current office and have no pay difference.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? What's the limit? Living in Pleasanton is cheaper than living in Mountain View, but still commutable. Living in Tracy is cheaper still and people still commute to the Bay Area from there. Living in Fresno or Sacramento is even cheaper and farther but still some people will do that commute daily.
  - brandonhorst 5y ago
    It's all based off the CoL in county of your primary residence. Has nothing to do with the proximity to an office.
    - jaredsohn 5y ago
      Curious if companies pay differently based on county of primary residence if you commute to the office.
      - iancmceachern 5y ago
        Exactly. If someone who lives in say, Tracy, who has always commuted into the office, and continues to do so. Would they get their pay cut?
    - cgdub 5y ago
      Does that mean you would get paid less for living in Queens County instead of New York County?
    - hinkley 5y ago
      But if there is anywhere in the county that has escaped full IT gentrification because of poor commuter access, those prices are going to explode if they haven't already. Since median house price is a huge fraction of CoL calculations (and a frequent complaint among some economists), staying in county gets you a raise, if your friends do it too.
      - csa 5y ago
        > those prices are going to explode if they haven't already That ship has sailed, and it’s got a nice tail wind as well.
        Talanes 5y ago
        Yeah, last time I looked at rents in my hometown, the cheapest options there were comparable to the cheapest options in San Francisco. They're probably a bit ahead of the curve; most the empty land around is either federal or LADWP, so there's limited room for new development, but it's a major shot up from pre-pandemic prices where renting a full house was cheaper than an SF bedroom.
    - hhmc 5y ago
      I'm wondering what's stopping a cottage industry popping up of 'synthetic residence' in high CoL areas. E.g. I live in a low-CoL area, but I pay you, someone living a high-CoL area, $100 to nominally be your "flatmate".
      - CydeWeys 5y ago
        Well for starters you're gonna have all applicable state and local taxes withheld from wherever you're fraudulently claiming to be living, as that is going to be where you are ACTUALLY living as far as all relevant taxation authorities are concerned.
      - tshaddox 5y ago
        There's nothing particularly clever about that, it's just straight up textbook employee fraud.
        flyingcircus3 5y ago
        Is it really that different from companies registering all of their trucks in Indiana because they have the cheapest commercial insurance?
        tomnipotent 5y ago
        And it's not fraud for an employer to arbitrarily control pay based on someones location? Is their revenue similarly confined by that employees contributions because of location?
        thebean11 5y ago
        No? You may not like it but it's very obviously not fraud by any definition.
        tomnipotent 5y ago
        Neither is the inverse. If company can pick arbitrary locations around the world to be their HQ, or Trump can use Mar-a-Lago as his residence, then so too can every other citizen following the law and paying their taxes.
    - danielsju6 5y ago
      Not at Google. When you go remote you're paid based the same as if you were onsite at the nearest office to your residence, limits are roughly CSA (combined statistical area) in the US—not cost of living.
    - vitus 5y ago
      Not true. If it were based on cost of living, then Google would pay more for you to work from Hawaii than from Alabama. (Spoilers: it doesn't, they're both in the same salary band.) It's slightly more true that it's based on the local cost of labor, but even more so that it's just based on the state, with carveouts for MSAs (which are defined based on county) surrounding certain offices commanding higher salaries. You'd make just as much working remotely in Matamoras, PA as you would working out of the NYC office in Manhattan.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kccqzy 5y ago
    There was an internal tool that simulated your pay change when you move. For example, if your office is in Santa Clara county but you move to Santa Cruz county the pay will drop by a lot. But if you move from Santa Clara county to San Mateo county there's no change at all.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      That's terrible (specifically, for the people driving to the office over 17 with their reduced paychecks). What a slap in the face.
      - iancmceachern 5y ago
        Yeah. Someone could have lived there long term, had a Job, and now are suddenly getting a pay cut?
        shagie 5y ago
        ... if they are charging from being in the office from 5 days a week (before times) to 0 days a week (now) rather than 3 days a week in office and 2 from home. 5 -> 0 is a pay cut based on where you live. 5 -> 3 is not a pay cut as you're still working out of the same office.
        dekhn 5y ago
        Ah, OK I thought anybody who lived in Santa Cruz and reported to the office 5 days a week would take a pay cut. This is just if you're fully remote, I guess. Still seems like a slap, Santa Cruz ain't cheap even if it's slightly better than San Mateo or Mountain View.
        saalweachter 5y ago
        So I'm a "super commuter"; I can take the Metro North from the end of the line to NYC, although I usually go for Amtrak for several reasons. If I were to go fully remote, I would take a pay cut ... but it would be almost identical to my commuting costs, once you account for rail fair, parking, vehicle mileage, taxes, snacks, etc. I don't know how representative my case is, but the pay cut ends up being a non-factor in my decision whether or not to apply for full remote.
  - vitus 5y ago
    The limit is based on what the Census bureau dictates the metropolitan statistical area to be. Certain MSAs with Google offices correspond to a special rate; otherwise it's based on the state you're in. If you're in Sacramento, you're definitely not in the same MSA as either San Jose or SF. Pleasanton on the other hand is part of Alameda County, which is part of SF's MSA. Meanwhile, if you opted to be in Santa Cruz, "just" 32 miles south of San Jose, you'd be SOL.
    - gtk40 5y ago
      Interesting. I live in a big MSA (Atlanta, which includes a lot of mostly rural counties). I've considered a role at Google, but currently work in a suburb and live further out from there. 1 hour to Atlanta proper without traffic, but still in the MSA according to the census. And I could move further out and still be in the MSA (like Heard County or Jasper County if you want to look at some examples).
      - CydeWeys 5y ago
        Atlanta is still going to be a significantly lower pay band than premium plus (Bay Area/NYC), though. Tech salaries there aren't as high. The ideal play is to be far out in the boonies of a premium plus MSA, e.g. something like Dutchess County in upstate New York. The cost of living there is quite low but you'll still make the highest salary possible. Interestingly, Seattle is only in the premium price tier, not the premium price tier. This is because there's no state income tax in Washington, so a lower salary goes a longer way. So it ends up being a wash even factoring in NY/CA state taxes. Because CA taxes are higher than NY (but not NYC taxes), your best bet is living in upstate NY (Long Island is outside of NYC too but it's eliminated because CoL is higher there).
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    > Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? Yes. I know somebody working remotely about 10m driving from the office. To keep your salary you'd need to stay in the SF bay area, which is defined according to country lines.
    - the_svd_doctor 5y ago
      _county_ lines? How far does it go?
      - UncleMeat 5y ago
        I don't know the boundary of the SF Bay Area region. It is based on some US designation. Once you leave the region around an office you become a part of some general state-wide designation. This has some failure cases, with some weird places being included in regions like NYC while some other places where people really do commute to NYC (though it is extremely far) are excluded. I don't actually know anybody who has been impacted by this, but clever Googlers made a pretty compete map of all of counties in the US and their pay region once the tool for getting salary information for proposed moves was available.
- electriclizard 5y ago
  It is a bit ridiculous to base these things off location when the location would reduce the taxes the company pays for you. I'd like to understand how these market values are calculated. It can't be supply and demand, because if you move to a place with 0 supply you do not maximize your value. I should be able to say to them "hey, I create $x for you now and I cost $y, but if I move I will make the same $x for you for $(y-z), and it will make no impact on means or ends since I'm entirely remote."
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    You are not paid the value you create. The value you create has nothing to do with your salary(other than whether you get fired if value < salary). Your salary is the least your employer thinks they can pay to get an acceptable candidate. As they expand the pool of applicants they figure they can find people willing to work for less.
googlerx 5y ago
Depends. Pay is based on location and is the same for in-office at location X or fully remote at location X. Relocating could impact pay up or down. https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home-pay-cut-location-real-estate https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home...
- WheatM 5y ago
908B64B197 5y ago
From what I’ve been told it’s been pretty easy for some to negotiate no salary adjustment when going remote. It’s against HR “policy” but I know deals happened when someone was deemed a crucial contributor.
- mzvkxlcvd 5y ago
  im planning on moving out of state in a few months from high cost area. what i've been told is that my salary wont change but I will be at "top of band" in the new area.
  - electriclizard 5y ago
    Complete manipulative nonsense if they ever use "top of the band" as reason to change their relationship with you imo. A Ferrari doesn't stop being Ferrari just because it's parked amongst Priuses. If you're worth paying $x for $y, you're worth paying $x for $y minus the reduction in taxes they'll pay; your moving to an area with less taxes is them getting you on sale.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
Depends. If you live near the office and still live near the office, no. If you've moved to a different area, potentially.

Yes, it's based on where you work. Though you can work remote from the same city as your current office and have no pay difference.

Johnny555 5y ago
Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? What's the limit? Living in Pleasanton is cheaper than living in Mountain View, but still commutable. Living in Tracy is cheaper still and people still commute to the Bay Area from there. Living in Fresno or Sacramento is even cheaper and farther but still some people will do that commute daily.
- brandonhorst 5y ago
  It's all based off the CoL in county of your primary residence. Has nothing to do with the proximity to an office.
  - jaredsohn 5y ago
    Curious if companies pay differently based on county of primary residence if you commute to the office.
    - iancmceachern 5y ago
      Exactly. If someone who lives in say, Tracy, who has always commuted into the office, and continues to do so. Would they get their pay cut?
  - cgdub 5y ago
    Does that mean you would get paid less for living in Queens County instead of New York County?
  - hinkley 5y ago
    But if there is anywhere in the county that has escaped full IT gentrification because of poor commuter access, those prices are going to explode if they haven't already. Since median house price is a huge fraction of CoL calculations (and a frequent complaint among some economists), staying in county gets you a raise, if your friends do it too.
    - csa 5y ago
      > those prices are going to explode if they haven't already That ship has sailed, and it’s got a nice tail wind as well.
      - Talanes 5y ago
        Yeah, last time I looked at rents in my hometown, the cheapest options there were comparable to the cheapest options in San Francisco. They're probably a bit ahead of the curve; most the empty land around is either federal or LADWP, so there's limited room for new development, but it's a major shot up from pre-pandemic prices where renting a full house was cheaper than an SF bedroom.
  - hhmc 5y ago
    I'm wondering what's stopping a cottage industry popping up of 'synthetic residence' in high CoL areas. E.g. I live in a low-CoL area, but I pay you, someone living a high-CoL area, $100 to nominally be your "flatmate".
    - CydeWeys 5y ago
      Well for starters you're gonna have all applicable state and local taxes withheld from wherever you're fraudulently claiming to be living, as that is going to be where you are ACTUALLY living as far as all relevant taxation authorities are concerned.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      There's nothing particularly clever about that, it's just straight up textbook employee fraud.
      - flyingcircus3 5y ago
        Is it really that different from companies registering all of their trucks in Indiana because they have the cheapest commercial insurance?
      - tomnipotent 5y ago
        And it's not fraud for an employer to arbitrarily control pay based on someones location? Is their revenue similarly confined by that employees contributions because of location?
        thebean11 5y ago
        No? You may not like it but it's very obviously not fraud by any definition.
        tomnipotent 5y ago
        Neither is the inverse. If company can pick arbitrary locations around the world to be their HQ, or Trump can use Mar-a-Lago as his residence, then so too can every other citizen following the law and paying their taxes.
  - danielsju6 5y ago
    Not at Google. When you go remote you're paid based the same as if you were onsite at the nearest office to your residence, limits are roughly CSA (combined statistical area) in the US—not cost of living.
  - vitus 5y ago
    Not true. If it were based on cost of living, then Google would pay more for you to work from Hawaii than from Alabama. (Spoilers: it doesn't, they're both in the same salary band.) It's slightly more true that it's based on the local cost of labor, but even more so that it's just based on the state, with carveouts for MSAs (which are defined based on county) surrounding certain offices commanding higher salaries. You'd make just as much working remotely in Matamoras, PA as you would working out of the NYC office in Manhattan.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kccqzy 5y ago
  There was an internal tool that simulated your pay change when you move. For example, if your office is in Santa Clara county but you move to Santa Cruz county the pay will drop by a lot. But if you move from Santa Clara county to San Mateo county there's no change at all.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    That's terrible (specifically, for the people driving to the office over 17 with their reduced paychecks). What a slap in the face.
    - iancmceachern 5y ago
      Yeah. Someone could have lived there long term, had a Job, and now are suddenly getting a pay cut?
      - shagie 5y ago
        ... if they are charging from being in the office from 5 days a week (before times) to 0 days a week (now) rather than 3 days a week in office and 2 from home. 5 -> 0 is a pay cut based on where you live. 5 -> 3 is not a pay cut as you're still working out of the same office.
        dekhn 5y ago
        Ah, OK I thought anybody who lived in Santa Cruz and reported to the office 5 days a week would take a pay cut. This is just if you're fully remote, I guess. Still seems like a slap, Santa Cruz ain't cheap even if it's slightly better than San Mateo or Mountain View.
        saalweachter 5y ago
        So I'm a "super commuter"; I can take the Metro North from the end of the line to NYC, although I usually go for Amtrak for several reasons. If I were to go fully remote, I would take a pay cut ... but it would be almost identical to my commuting costs, once you account for rail fair, parking, vehicle mileage, taxes, snacks, etc. I don't know how representative my case is, but the pay cut ends up being a non-factor in my decision whether or not to apply for full remote.
- vitus 5y ago
  The limit is based on what the Census bureau dictates the metropolitan statistical area to be. Certain MSAs with Google offices correspond to a special rate; otherwise it's based on the state you're in. If you're in Sacramento, you're definitely not in the same MSA as either San Jose or SF. Pleasanton on the other hand is part of Alameda County, which is part of SF's MSA. Meanwhile, if you opted to be in Santa Cruz, "just" 32 miles south of San Jose, you'd be SOL.
  - gtk40 5y ago
    Interesting. I live in a big MSA (Atlanta, which includes a lot of mostly rural counties). I've considered a role at Google, but currently work in a suburb and live further out from there. 1 hour to Atlanta proper without traffic, but still in the MSA according to the census. And I could move further out and still be in the MSA (like Heard County or Jasper County if you want to look at some examples).
    - CydeWeys 5y ago
      Atlanta is still going to be a significantly lower pay band than premium plus (Bay Area/NYC), though. Tech salaries there aren't as high. The ideal play is to be far out in the boonies of a premium plus MSA, e.g. something like Dutchess County in upstate New York. The cost of living there is quite low but you'll still make the highest salary possible. Interestingly, Seattle is only in the premium price tier, not the premium price tier. This is because there's no state income tax in Washington, so a lower salary goes a longer way. So it ends up being a wash even factoring in NY/CA state taxes. Because CA taxes are higher than NY (but not NYC taxes), your best bet is living in upstate NY (Long Island is outside of NYC too but it's eliminated because CoL is higher there).
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  > Can you go remote within commute distance of the office and keep your salary? Yes. I know somebody working remotely about 10m driving from the office. To keep your salary you'd need to stay in the SF bay area, which is defined according to country lines.
  - the_svd_doctor 5y ago
    _county_ lines? How far does it go?
    - UncleMeat 5y ago
      I don't know the boundary of the SF Bay Area region. It is based on some US designation. Once you leave the region around an office you become a part of some general state-wide designation. This has some failure cases, with some weird places being included in regions like NYC while some other places where people really do commute to NYC (though it is extremely far) are excluded. I don't actually know anybody who has been impacted by this, but clever Googlers made a pretty compete map of all of counties in the US and their pay region once the tool for getting salary information for proposed moves was available.
electriclizard 5y ago
It is a bit ridiculous to base these things off location when the location would reduce the taxes the company pays for you. I'd like to understand how these market values are calculated. It can't be supply and demand, because if you move to a place with 0 supply you do not maximize your value. I should be able to say to them "hey, I create $x for you now and I cost $y, but if I move I will make the same $x for you for $(y-z), and it will make no impact on means or ends since I'm entirely remote."
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  You are not paid the value you create. The value you create has nothing to do with your salary(other than whether you get fired if value < salary). Your salary is the least your employer thinks they can pay to get an acceptable candidate. As they expand the pool of applicants they figure they can find people willing to work for less.

googlerx 5y ago

Depends. Pay is based on location and is the same for in-office at location X or fully remote at location X. Relocating could impact pay up or down. https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home-pay-cut-location-real-estate https://www.vox.com/recode/22691275/googles-remote-work-home...

WheatM 5y ago

908B64B197 5y ago

From what I’ve been told it’s been pretty easy for some to negotiate no salary adjustment when going remote. It’s against HR “policy” but I know deals happened when someone was deemed a crucial contributor.

mzvkxlcvd 5y ago
im planning on moving out of state in a few months from high cost area. what i've been told is that my salary wont change but I will be at "top of band" in the new area.
- electriclizard 5y ago
  Complete manipulative nonsense if they ever use "top of the band" as reason to change their relationship with you imo. A Ferrari doesn't stop being Ferrari just because it's parked amongst Priuses. If you're worth paying $x for $y, you're worth paying $x for $y minus the reduction in taxes they'll pay; your moving to an area with less taxes is them getting you on sale.

Rebelgecko 5y ago

Depends. If you live near the office and still live near the office, no. If you've moved to a different area, potentially.