5 ms·

It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds'

It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds' machines have. There's also ample evidence that software updates to Taylor's McDonalds machines have made the error codes more cryptic and the machines more unreliable over time. I think there's a pretty strong legal case to be made that these machines are deliberately designed to break down in order to drive repair service revenue for both Taylor and McDonalds at the expense of franchisees. Unfortunately, franchisees seem to be locked up under binding arbitration clauses in their franchise agreements. Luckily for consumers, 3rd party vendors aren't subject to these contracts.

gruez 5y ago
>There's also ample evidence that software updates to Taylor's McDonalds machines have made the error codes more cryptic and the machines more unreliable over time. Source? >It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds' machines have >I think there's a pretty strong legal case to be made that these machines are deliberately designed to break down in order to drive repair service revenue for both Taylor and McDonalds at the expense of franchisees. AFAIK mcdonalds machine are also self-cleaning, which makes them more complicated and prone to failure. There's also advantages though (ie. you don't have to rely on a minimum wage worker to adequately clean the machine to prevent food poisoning), so absent some sort of evidence showing intent, it's at least plausible that there isn't some sort of conspiracy to drive up repair costs.
- 14 5y ago
  I don’t know the source but definitely did read an article here on HN last year reporting this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I would bet McDonald’s is paying a pr firm to get reports like that taken away off the net.
  - registeredcorn 5y ago
    If you do find the article, please let us know.
- nomel 5y ago
  Here's a little investigation about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4
joezydeco 5y ago
"It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds' machines have" But they're not similar machines. The machines in question are models developed for McDonald's that use internal heat treatment to pasteurize the machine and clean it on a more frequent basis. The intent was to keep the machine running longer than previous models, the opposite of your assertion. The other models need to be disassembled and cleaned by hand to maintain food safety. That doesn't dismiss the complexity of the product and the likelihood that breakdowns happen, because obviously they do. Source: I've done engineering work on the C602. I know how it works.
- infogulch 5y ago
  The fact that the design intent is to reduce downtime does not mean it is achieved in practice. McDonald's ice cream machines constantly being "broken" is so well known that it's a meme among normal people. This is not the case for other fast food places that use Taylor machines. I've seen statements from employees confused about why it's such a big deal to clean the machine once a day because it's not that hard. (Personally, I find it kinda gross that the machine is intentionally not cleaned for weeks.)
  - gknoy 5y ago
    Does this mean that the ice cream machines at other places are just happily dispensing unsafe food?
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      No. It means that they just open up and clean the machine each day, just like every other appliance that touches food. The MD machine was designed to run without daily cleaning.
      - JeremyNT 5y ago
        > No. It means that they just open up and clean the machine each day, just like every other appliance that touches food. Maybe on paper, but having worked in jobs that required the routine cleaning of things, I can state with certainty that said things were often either 1) not actually cleaned or 2) not properly cleaned.
Nition 5y ago
This is maybe backed up by the fact that in other countries, McDonalds serves the same ice-cream from machines that seem to always be working. The "McDonalds ice-cream machine is always broken" meme seems to be a uniquely US phenomenon - or at least it's not completely worldwide.
- throwaway73838 5y ago
  Definitely true in Australia. You very often can’t get ice cream after a certain time of night.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    They run the machine dry so that it can be cleaned out daily without wasting product.
    - serf 5y ago
      that may be true, but it gives the customer the impression of a broken process -- and from the perspective of the unsatisfied customer it IS broken.

gruez 5y ago

>There's also ample evidence that software updates to Taylor's McDonalds machines have made the error codes more cryptic and the machines more unreliable over time. Source? >It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds' machines have >I think there's a pretty strong legal case to be made that these machines are deliberately designed to break down in order to drive repair service revenue for both Taylor and McDonalds at the expense of franchisees. AFAIK mcdonalds machine are also self-cleaning, which makes them more complicated and prone to failure. There's also advantages though (ie. you don't have to rely on a minimum wage worker to adequately clean the machine to prevent food poisoning), so absent some sort of evidence showing intent, it's at least plausible that there isn't some sort of conspiracy to drive up repair costs.

14 5y ago
I don’t know the source but definitely did read an article here on HN last year reporting this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I would bet McDonald’s is paying a pr firm to get reports like that taken away off the net.
- registeredcorn 5y ago
  If you do find the article, please let us know.
nomel 5y ago
Here's a little investigation about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4

joezydeco 5y ago

"It also needs to be said that similar machines provided by Taylor to McDonalds' competitors do not have anywhere close to the amount of downtime that McDonalds' machines have" But they're not similar machines. The machines in question are models developed for McDonald's that use internal heat treatment to pasteurize the machine and clean it on a more frequent basis. The intent was to keep the machine running longer than previous models, the opposite of your assertion. The other models need to be disassembled and cleaned by hand to maintain food safety. That doesn't dismiss the complexity of the product and the likelihood that breakdowns happen, because obviously they do. Source: I've done engineering work on the C602. I know how it works.

infogulch 5y ago
The fact that the design intent is to reduce downtime does not mean it is achieved in practice. McDonald's ice cream machines constantly being "broken" is so well known that it's a meme among normal people. This is not the case for other fast food places that use Taylor machines. I've seen statements from employees confused about why it's such a big deal to clean the machine once a day because it's not that hard. (Personally, I find it kinda gross that the machine is intentionally not cleaned for weeks.)
- gknoy 5y ago
  Does this mean that the ice cream machines at other places are just happily dispensing unsafe food?
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    No. It means that they just open up and clean the machine each day, just like every other appliance that touches food. The MD machine was designed to run without daily cleaning.
    - JeremyNT 5y ago
      > No. It means that they just open up and clean the machine each day, just like every other appliance that touches food. Maybe on paper, but having worked in jobs that required the routine cleaning of things, I can state with certainty that said things were often either 1) not actually cleaned or 2) not properly cleaned.

Nition 5y ago

This is maybe backed up by the fact that in other countries, McDonalds serves the same ice-cream from machines that seem to always be working. The "McDonalds ice-cream machine is always broken" meme seems to be a uniquely US phenomenon - or at least it's not completely worldwide.

throwaway73838 5y ago
Definitely true in Australia. You very often can’t get ice cream after a certain time of night.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  They run the machine dry so that it can be cleaned out daily without wasting product.
  - serf 5y ago
    that may be true, but it gives the customer the impression of a broken process -- and from the perspective of the unsatisfied customer it IS broken.