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P. J. O'Rourke, 1947-2022
- xyzzy21 5y ago"Fast metastasizing cancer' and "Blood clot" screams out just one thing: covid vax damage.
- cafard 5y agoUnexpectedly touching. My memories of O'Rourke are mostly from his National Lampoon days.
- alphabetting 5y agoOne incredible writer doing a sendoff for another. RIP Mr O'Rourke
- anigbrowl 5y agoSuch an incredible writer. JournalismJobs.com: Why have conservative media outlets like The Weekly Standard and Fox News Channel become more popular in the past few years? Matt Labash: Because they feed the rage. We bring the pain to the liberal media. I say that mockingly, but it's true somewhat. We come with a strong point of view and people like point of view journalism. While all these hand-wringing Freedom Forum types talk about objectivity, the conservative media likes to rap the liberal media on the knuckles for not being objective. We've created this cottage industry in which it pays to be un-objective. It pays to be subjective as much as possible. It's a great way to have your cake and eat it too. Criticize other people for not being objective. Be as subjective as you want. It's a great little racket. I'm glad we found it actually. Source: Journalismjobs.com interview from 2005, archived at https://zfacts.com/zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/Weekly_Standard_Matt-Labash_confesses.pdf https://zfacts.com/zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/Weekly_Standard_M...
- tom-thistime 5y agoI thought 'Parliament of Whores,' 'Give War a Chance,' and 'Holidays in Hell' were hilarious. EDIT: I read these books around 1990.
- barrkel 5y agoI bought Holidays in Hell on the strength of mentions since his death, and it is tough going and dated to start with - it's just a series of national stereotypes played for cheap laughs that made me wince rather than smile. Hopefully it'll get better.
- nineplay 5y agoI loved the book but the humor may have gotten stale in the last 30 years. I hope it picks up for you!
- buescher 5y agoYou probably wouldn't enjoy his "Foreigners Around The World" in National Lampoon from 1976 either.
- ghaff 5y agoI haven't looked at a National Lampoon in many years. But I'm guessing that a lot of modern audiences would find a lot to object to during the magazine's heyday. Of course, a lot of its humor was always pretty sophomoric but in its heyday it was probably a lot more acceptable to say "I probably shouldn't be laughing at this but it's really funny anyway."
- rootusrootus 5y ago> "I probably shouldn't be laughing at this but it's really funny anyway." Part of me feels fairly uncomfortable with this idea. Humor is such a complicated emotion, but lately we seem to try to distill it to a single interpretation, shallow, derisive, and then proclaim what it's okay to laugh about or not.
- ghaff 5y agoThere's also a strong component of enforcing the right not to be offended. That's always existed to some degree but lately there's a much stronger sense of it.
- zeruch 5y agoPJ was part of my holy trinity of American political satirists when I was in high school/college (PJ, Hunter S Thompson, Molly Ivins)* and to this day I have yet to encounter any current satirists who CONSISTENTLY come close. Part of it I suspect is that our political terrain is such a goat rodeo, and that the kind of caustic humor these folks espoused (often thumbing their noses at any number of conventions) that today would get them promptly dragged, but their insights into the zeitgeist was at the time, intensely engrossing. * I also revered Twain and Mencken, but PJ/HST/MI were contemporaries and in my time, which carried a more visceral stamp to them.
- B1FF_PSUVM 5y agoAdd a topping of Gore Vidal.
- twiddling 5y agoI have been delving into Vidal recently. The documentary on Buckley and Vidal from the '68 conventions is also a great watch.
- FuriouslyAdrift 5y agoHis writing is well thought out and fun to read, too. Armageddon and the Narratives of Empire series are exceptional.
- nineplay 5y ago> the kind of caustic humor these folks espoused (often thumbing their noses at any number of conventions) that today would get them promptly dragged I think it's the opposite actually. I think 'satirists' now are expected to be so extreme that the only think people think is funny is "the other side is composed of dribbling morons". Humor that suggests that the people with different political views may have feelings and brains is completely unacceptable.
- zeruch 5y ago
- adlorger 5y agoPJ O'Rourke was my first into to a feeling that I've become more familiar with over the years - "liberal cringe" I still count myself as a liberal (more classical than modern) these days but I can't help but view a lot of standard progressive empty promises through an O'Rourke-ian lens.
- aklemm 5y agoI'm curious what you mean by "empty promises"? If it's what I hope it means, those are things I experience as thwarted dreams instead.
- rpmisms 5y agoPromises that sound nice, but have huge economic consequences and therefore wouldn't be passed by a sane government. An example: Medicare for All combined with amnesty for illegal immigrants. It sounds nice, until you think about the obvious result.
- mgkimsal 5y agoI'm not sure what the 'obvious result' is.
- rpmisms 5y agoMassive spending as people flock in to get healthcare. It's (sadly) not financially feasible.
- aklemm 5y agoThat assumes the immigrants don't become part of the tax-paying economy, which they have a great record of doing.
- rpmisms 5y agoWill they become high earners? The vast majority of taxes are paid by high earners and the wealthy, with those making under ~$43,600 a year—50% of Americans—paying just 3% of income taxes. (Source: https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-the-rich-pay-taxes https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-t...)
- trts 5y agoAlthough he was mainly conservative, O'Rourke was a popular iconoclast with respect to both major U.S. political parties. That you could read him in the Washington Post and also find him on an NPR show like Wait, Wait, Don't Tell me points to a time seemingly in the distant past when the U.S. wasn't so politically entrenched and polarized. If you didn't agree with what he said, it was still easy to enjoy his writing and find truth in it. Not sure there is any comparable figure today that comes to mind. Last week I enjoyed listening to a rebroadcast of his appearance on James Altucher's podcast: https://jamesaltucher.com/podcast/pj-orourke/ https://jamesaltucher.com/podcast/pj-orourke/
- zeruch 5y ago"Not sure there is any comparable figure today that comes to mind." There isn't. Every single one of that breed is gone (from the conservative to the liberal, because there is no replacement for Molly Ivins either). The closest we have are a few UK public intellectuals/satirists (e.g. Stephen Fry, Ian Hislop) but even they aren't quite the same animal. There are writers of a certain quality that are massively entertaining and brilliant, like Cintra Wilson (Her book on the national Fame-virus epidemic, "A Massive Swelling" is essential), but her focus isn't just on political satire, so it's still not quite the same.
- tzs 5y agoHere's a transcript from one of his appearances on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" giving his opinion on the 2016 candidates: > I have a little announcement to make. I mean my whole purpose in life basically is to offend everyone who listens to NPR. No matter what position they take on anything like I'm on the other side of it you know. > I'm voting for Hillary. > I am endorsing Hillary and all her lies and all her empty promises. I am endorsing Hillary. The second worse thing that could happen to this country, but it's she's way behind in second place you know. > I mean she's wrong about absolutely everything but she's wrong within normal parameters.
- shagie 5y agoFrom back then... the news article: https://www.npr.org/2016/05/09/477339063/conservative-author-pj-orourke-reluctantly-backs-clinton https://www.npr.org/2016/05/09/477339063/conservative-author... the episode: https://www.npr.org/2016/05/07/477085149/whos-bill-this-time https://www.npr.org/2016/05/07/477085149/whos-bill-this-time - its about 3 minutes in.
- nineplay 5y agoWhen I was a young lass I read "Holidays in Hell" over and over again. His complaint that Europe had no real ice cubes and if you asked for Scotch on the Rocks they gave you "the crumbling leftover from some Lilliputian puddle freeze"[1] still lives in my head. I didn't always agree with him politically, then and now, but his writing and his person transcend politics. [1] Fortunately I was able to find the exact quote on Google
- Angostura 5y agoLoved that book. I remember him complaining that European countries were 'stoo small to swing a cat, without it passing through customs' and that Korean dog soup was remarkably palatable 'when you consider what a hot, wet dog smells like'.
- faster 5y agoI remember reading "Modern Manners" and laughing so hard. The first edition was so extreme that the working was softened in later versions. "Dating is a social engagement with the threat of sex at its conclusion."
- deltarholamda 5y ago>I didn't always agree with him politically, then and now, but his writing and his person transcend politics His intro to "Republican Party Reptile" more or less said (this is from memory) that his politics fit more into the Republican mold, but that he wasn't particularly happy about that, because he also liked having fun. It's hard to cubbyhole P.J., and he preferred it that way. He had a way of turning a phrase that made you go, "yeah, I wish I came up with that." I have to viciously edit anything I write because if I'm not paying attention I will blithely rip off something of his without thinking about it.
- kwertyoowiyop 5y agoVery nicely written. Mr. O’Rourke’s politics don’t match mine but he was damn funny and kudos to him for taking a swing at all those who deserve it. Parliament of Whores should be required reading in high school.
- major505 5y ago"Always read something that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it."
- lazyeye 5y agoHis politics dont match mine but....(thats all I want everybody to know).
- gojomo 5y agoCan't be too careful!
- jbellis 5y agoI've seen a lot of authors I respect say how great PJ was, but satire tends to go stale. If I wanted to read him today for the first time without nostalgia-tinted glasses, what should I start with? I was not able to find such a list on Google.
- wyclif 5y agoI'd start with Parliament of Whores or Holidays in Hell. It's not as well known, but Modern Manners is a real howler with more laughs per page than just about any book I can think of, and is the perfect night table book because you can read short snippets of it right before bed.
- victor106 5y agoI heard PJ talk in a show about having a three party system in the US. And this is what he had to say. “Our big and sloppy political system keeps America away from abstract political theorists. Away from abstract political theory is a good place to be. Our compromised and compromising system with its messey conflicts and fitful bipartisanship keeps governments close to real life. Because in reality we all contain within ourselves elements of the democrat and republican. We are conservatives when we catch the kids smoking pot and we are quite liberal when we catch ourselves doing it. No one ever says oh goodie when its time to pay the taxes and no one ever turns down a government benefit. Abondining the two party system would mean abondining a great truth. The truth that we are all of two minds about politics Greater certainity in our political system would mean more politics, more arguments, more strife we dont need that we got enough...”
- MontagFTB 5y agoThis is a great quote - do you have a link to a source?
- robotresearcher 5y agohttps://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/two-party-system-making-america-ungovernable https://www.intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/two-party-syst... at 1h29m in transcript
- MontagFTB 5y agoThanks!
- ncmncm 5y agoSounds articulate, plausible, and just so, so wrong. Other countries are not stuck with our system. We are stuck with it, but that is not a reason to come to like it. We have to find ways to work around being stuck with it. Pretending it is OK actively interferes with that.
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- rpmisms 5y agoI spent my tween years reading an assortment of his work. Absolutely brilliant, and didn't think what he was told to. He was a formative influence on me, and I appreciate the impact he had on the world. Rest in peace, you glorious troll.
- ubermonkey 5y agoHe was pretty funny until the mid-90s, and then seemed to just get cranky. I honestly hadn't given him a thought in years.
- W-Stool 5y agoAnyone who is interested in P.J.'s earlier work should look at his contributions to the late, great National Lampoon, where at one time he was editor. His piece "Foreigners Around the World" is completely outrageous and certainly NOT politically correct. Still to this day I consider it the funniest thing I have ever read.
- lazaruzLong 5y agoThis obituary/remembrance is an amazing piece of writing.
- bigmattystyles 5y agoI only ever saw him on Bill Maher's show, but would enjoy the show so much more when he was on it. I always told myself that I needed to go check out more of his work and never did. My loss. Aside from some of the pieces already linked in the thread are there any worth reading that stand out? RIP.
- ghaff 5y agoThe mentions on this thread are a pretty good list. It's been a while since I read though. I just took a couple off my shelf to re-read.
- Arubis 5y agoFrom TFA, an outstanding quote in its own right: > Good writers make you want to read, but great writers make you want to write.
- bigbillheck 5y agoI fell off the O'Rourke fan train back in the early 00s when I was flipping thru his 'Enemies List' in a bookstore and came to the realization that if the B-52s were his enemy then I was one too. Did O'Rourke ever say anything about 'cancel culture'? Because that book is an excellent example.
- tux1968 5y agoIs it an excellent example of 'cancel culture', though? Disliking something, and considering it your enemy, isn't the same as cancelling something. Did he ever try to stop one of their concerts, or demand that nobody else listen to them, or get their management to drop them?
- bigbillheck 5y agoI found a copy online, and these are some excerpts from the first chapter: > And why aren't we making sure that that Fidel-snuggler Ron Dellums never works again? (Ron Dellums: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dellums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Dellums) > If we hope to wreck careers, destroy reputations, and drive holistic Ortega fans into exile in Sausalito and Amherst, we're going to need tactics very different from those used by Roy Cohn, Bobby Kennedy, and [McCarthy]. > We have to come up with more clever ways to ruin these people. And from chapter 2: > We need some means of persecuting neuterers, nutters, and screaming greenies...
- tatersolid 5y agoIt’s satire of cancel culture.
- maybelsyrup 5y agoA good, alternative view on the guy: https://twitter.com/mgerber937/status/1494060745335660547 https://twitter.com/mgerber937/status/1494060745335660547 I never found him that funny. And I don't say that just because he was un-PC, or racist, or sexist -- though he was those things -- but because he didn't have good jokes, which is the only thing that matters in comedy: > The Chinese have decided to import money instead of things they can immediately enjoy — my black Lab would make quite a stir fry. This is hack, open-mic-nite-at-the-Sheraton stuff. Yawn. I get that for people of a certain age (and sex and skin color) this was really cutting-edge, and part of the formative experiences of finding one's own sense of humor in the world, but its time was long past even when these jokes were best-sellers. It's me-me-me boomer stuff that doesn't work as comedy, and I think that's what ultimately sinks the guy's legacy.
- ncmncm 5y agoYes. If you read carefully, nothing he says is even slightly funny. Some people like it because he would say petty things about people they didn't like. I don't like Hillary much more than he did, but what he would say was never anything substantial about what she said or did, just things he wanted to believe about her personally.
- lurquer 5y ago> Yes. If you read carefully, nothing he says is even slightly funny. Let me fix it for you: > Yes. If you read carefully, nothing he says is even slightly funny … to me.
- ncmncm 5y agoLet me fix it for you: > Yes. If you actually do read carefully, nothing he says is even slightly funny. It is easy to confuse snark with humor if you don't like who the snark is about. There were other people at the time who actually were consistently funny. Put them side by side and the difference is stark.
- hunterb123 5y ago
- harry8 5y agoSeems some people haven't read his stuff. I think these are representative of the comedy and viewpoint. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15142347/ferrari-reinvents-manifest-destiny-pj-orourke-and-a-ferrari-308gts-archived-feature/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15142347/ferrari-rein... https://heretical.com/miscella/reptile.html https://heretical.com/miscella/reptile.html
- Forgeties79 5y agoDo you know why he instituted DADT?
- chrissnell 5y agoP.J. O’Rourke played a huge part in the formation of my world view and my transformation from an idealistic, liberal college kid to a conservative grown-up, as he might say. I stumbled upon him while reading the “Best of American Travel Writing” annual series and I had no idea at the time that his wit would eventually win me over and lead me to adopt a pragmatic and realistic approach to solving the world’s problems (and my own). Rest in peace, sir. Hopefully with a cigarette and some fine scotch in hand. I will miss you greatly.
- mathogre 5y agoSigh I was in Australia when I read a piece from him on Desert Shield/Storm in an Aussie newspaper. I saved it. A few years later he was to sign books in DC, and I brought along the paper. He signed my book, and also signed the paper. I'd told him I'd seen it while in Australia. He said, "I wonder if I got paid for that?" RIP, PJ. Thanks for the laughs and the insights.
- EdwardDiego 5y agoI've always been left-of-centre, although drifting more towards "centre-with-a-slight-lean-to-the-left" these days, but I enjoyed O'Rourke's cutting wit as a teenager despite ferociously opposing his politics. Which says a lot for his capacity to write.
- johnohara 5y agoHuman beings like Doug Kenny, P.J. O'Rourke, Anne Beatts, Michael O'Donohue, and every one of the incredibly talented writing and production staff at The National Lampoon during the 70's are proof that God is indeed merciful.