5 ms·

I cant think of anything more definitionally anti-competitive than keeping mcflurry machines available so you can crush any DQ that pops up in your vicinity by

I cant think of anything more definitionally anti-competitive than keeping mcflurry machines available so you can crush any DQ that pops up in your vicinity by fixing it ("oh whoops... it was unplugged!"), and then also crushing a business that aims to solve your problem to help serve customers better. Let's get the FTC on this, afaik it's illegal to advertise a product you have no intention of actually serving. eg: used car dealers used to do this with an "amazing deal car", which often never existed. People would come down and get enticed to a diff model at a high price. edit: The "whoops it's unplugged" was a joke about absurd root causes, but also intended to imply equivalently poor attempts to keep the machine working. That is I do not think they literally did not plug it in, but I do think they are not trying very hard to keep the machine up and running. Other threads point out that the real root may actually be that the original creator of the machines made a complex/crap machine and the cost of technicians makes it unprofitable to bother

jaywalk 5y ago
And now that car dealer ads have to specify the exact car they're referring to (by VIN or stock number), that one car will often be the only one the amazing deal applies to and once it's gone, so is the deal. At least somebody can actually get that deal now, so it's better I guess.
- mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
  It's additionally better because you now have the option to call and ask "Is the car from the ad still available and will you hold it for me until I arrive?"
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > And now that car dealer ads have to specify the exact car they're referring to (by VIN or stock number), that one car will often be the only one the amazing deal applies to and once it's gone, so is the deal. Sure, if its just one they have to identify it and say something like “1 at this price” but that also tells you up front what the deal is.
raldi 5y ago
I don’t understand your opening sentence. Why would they keep it unplugged?
- bena 5y ago
  The gist I'm getting is that McDonald's doesn't want to be in the ice cream/soft serve business. But it also doesn't want more competition than it already has. So every McDonald's has an ice cream machine as a more sort of "break glass in case of emergency" situation. Or in this case "in case of DQ". But if there is no DQ in the area, why operate the machine? Just have it be "broken". It's not like people have an option they didn't have before.
  - jacobr1 5y ago
    I think it is less a matter of intent and more a matter of incentives. McDonald's is probably perfectly happy to be selling more ice-cream and make money that way. But they just don't care about maintenance (franchise reasonability) and it isn't impacting the bottom line significantly, so nobody really wants to fix the contracts and/or vendor performance issues. If there was a better competitor out there, McDonalds might use them, but they just don't care enough (meaning aren't incentivized enough) at the corporate level.
  - cactus2093 5y ago
    > But if there is no DQ in the area, why operate the machine? Why operate the grill or fryer? To sell food and make money. Instead of selling someone a meal for $7 McDonalds can sell them a meal + a mcflurry for $10. Why wouldn't they want to do this? It doesn't make any sense that a bunch of franchise owners are all in together on some kind of ice cream conspiracy. Surely the truth is less interesting, it's most likely just a boring cost/benefit analysis. There seems to be some flaw with the machines they use that make them particularly prone to breaking down and difficult to maintain. So some stores that don't sell a lot of ice cream anyway decide it's not worth the cost of keeping them running, while other stores that sell more do keep them running. And surely it's no coincidence that the markets where people buy more ice cream are also where Dairy Queen stores are more likely to open up.
hammock 5y ago
I read the article and DQ wasn't mentioned. What are you getting at?
- penjelly 5y ago
  parents point is that operating the machines regularly is of no interest to mcdonalds (likely bad margins) and its only interested in ensuring other niche fast food restos dont start to take up market share instead. ie: if i want icecream i can get it at macdonalds, instead if DQ, unless the machines are broken. if DQ gains significant market share they "fix" the machines and DQ loses its market share. not saying this is fact. just fleshing out parents
  - hammock 5y ago
    Where is the evidence of such a strategy though, besides the fact that machines are always broken? Even the franchisees would rather have a working machine.
    - bena 5y ago
      There is none, but "broken McDonald's ice cream machine" is a whole category of meme. So people start wondering my McDonald's is so plagued by machines that seem to only work on the third Thursday following the fifth month after the Lunar eclipse. But it's likely a combination of disinterested staff and machines that require more involved maintenance. Not to mention, there's several points of failure. Not only can various parts of the machine break; the drum that spins the mix, the compressor to keep the mix cold, leaks in various hoses and lines, but you can simply run out of mix.
cinntaile 5y ago
DQ is Dairy Queen. For anyone else that is confused.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- adolph 5y ago
  I'm thinking how awesome the snicker blizzard is. I'm also thinking about how McDonald's anticompetitive behavior may have an unintended anti-obesity effect. Again, I'm thinking how awesome the snicker blizzard is.
skeeter2020 5y ago
THis "theory" doesn't make any sense. It's the Franchisee who doesn't get the sales AND pays the huge cost for an official repair rep to come out and basically restart the cleaning cycle. This doesn't jive with crushing an upstart DQ; they're only really competitors in that they both sell "fast food". Ice cream @ a McD is a loss-leader (soft serve) or minor line item (McFlurrys) while it is the core product of DQ, despite their hot food offerrings.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  > Ice cream @ a McD is a loss-leader (soft serve) or minor line item (McFlurrys) while it is the core product of DQ, despite their hot food offerrings. IMO this is actually the point being made. There's no need to run a loss leader if the competition doesn't exist.
  - gruez 5y ago
    1. if it's a loss leader that they don't want to continue, why not just... stop offering it? After all, you see "participating restaurant" disclaimers everywhere. Why can't a particular franchise just choose not to participate if it's not in DQ territory? 2. Regardless of whether it's a loss leader, I doubt the marginal cost of the ice cream is more than the $1 or whatever the discounted price is. They paid for the expensive ice cream machine and the counter space. They might as well use it.
    - notreallyserio 5y ago
      As the theory goes, they want to stop DQ from moving in more than they want to recover the counter space used by the offline ice cream machine.
    - hackernewds 5y ago
      because customers drive in to purchase the loss leader, and even when unavailable will purchase alternate items
- hackernewds 5y ago

jaywalk 5y ago

And now that car dealer ads have to specify the exact car they're referring to (by VIN or stock number), that one car will often be the only one the amazing deal applies to and once it's gone, so is the deal. At least somebody can actually get that deal now, so it's better I guess.

mandelbrotwurst 5y ago
It's additionally better because you now have the option to call and ask "Is the car from the ad still available and will you hold it for me until I arrive?"
dragonwriter 5y ago
> And now that car dealer ads have to specify the exact car they're referring to (by VIN or stock number), that one car will often be the only one the amazing deal applies to and once it's gone, so is the deal. Sure, if its just one they have to identify it and say something like “1 at this price” but that also tells you up front what the deal is.

raldi 5y ago

I don’t understand your opening sentence. Why would they keep it unplugged?

bena 5y ago
The gist I'm getting is that McDonald's doesn't want to be in the ice cream/soft serve business. But it also doesn't want more competition than it already has. So every McDonald's has an ice cream machine as a more sort of "break glass in case of emergency" situation. Or in this case "in case of DQ". But if there is no DQ in the area, why operate the machine? Just have it be "broken". It's not like people have an option they didn't have before.
- jacobr1 5y ago
  I think it is less a matter of intent and more a matter of incentives. McDonald's is probably perfectly happy to be selling more ice-cream and make money that way. But they just don't care about maintenance (franchise reasonability) and it isn't impacting the bottom line significantly, so nobody really wants to fix the contracts and/or vendor performance issues. If there was a better competitor out there, McDonalds might use them, but they just don't care enough (meaning aren't incentivized enough) at the corporate level.
- cactus2093 5y ago
  > But if there is no DQ in the area, why operate the machine? Why operate the grill or fryer? To sell food and make money. Instead of selling someone a meal for $7 McDonalds can sell them a meal + a mcflurry for $10. Why wouldn't they want to do this? It doesn't make any sense that a bunch of franchise owners are all in together on some kind of ice cream conspiracy. Surely the truth is less interesting, it's most likely just a boring cost/benefit analysis. There seems to be some flaw with the machines they use that make them particularly prone to breaking down and difficult to maintain. So some stores that don't sell a lot of ice cream anyway decide it's not worth the cost of keeping them running, while other stores that sell more do keep them running. And surely it's no coincidence that the markets where people buy more ice cream are also where Dairy Queen stores are more likely to open up.

hammock 5y ago

I read the article and DQ wasn't mentioned. What are you getting at?

penjelly 5y ago
parents point is that operating the machines regularly is of no interest to mcdonalds (likely bad margins) and its only interested in ensuring other niche fast food restos dont start to take up market share instead. ie: if i want icecream i can get it at macdonalds, instead if DQ, unless the machines are broken. if DQ gains significant market share they "fix" the machines and DQ loses its market share. not saying this is fact. just fleshing out parents
- hammock 5y ago
  Where is the evidence of such a strategy though, besides the fact that machines are always broken? Even the franchisees would rather have a working machine.
  - bena 5y ago
    There is none, but "broken McDonald's ice cream machine" is a whole category of meme. So people start wondering my McDonald's is so plagued by machines that seem to only work on the third Thursday following the fifth month after the Lunar eclipse. But it's likely a combination of disinterested staff and machines that require more involved maintenance. Not to mention, there's several points of failure. Not only can various parts of the machine break; the drum that spins the mix, the compressor to keep the mix cold, leaks in various hoses and lines, but you can simply run out of mix.

cinntaile 5y ago

DQ is Dairy Queen. For anyone else that is confused.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
adolph 5y ago
I'm thinking how awesome the snicker blizzard is. I'm also thinking about how McDonald's anticompetitive behavior may have an unintended anti-obesity effect. Again, I'm thinking how awesome the snicker blizzard is.

skeeter2020 5y ago

THis "theory" doesn't make any sense. It's the Franchisee who doesn't get the sales AND pays the huge cost for an official repair rep to come out and basically restart the cleaning cycle. This doesn't jive with crushing an upstart DQ; they're only really competitors in that they both sell "fast food". Ice cream @ a McD is a loss-leader (soft serve) or minor line item (McFlurrys) while it is the core product of DQ, despite their hot food offerrings.

notreallyserio 5y ago
> Ice cream @ a McD is a loss-leader (soft serve) or minor line item (McFlurrys) while it is the core product of DQ, despite their hot food offerrings. IMO this is actually the point being made. There's no need to run a loss leader if the competition doesn't exist.
- gruez 5y ago
  1. if it's a loss leader that they don't want to continue, why not just... stop offering it? After all, you see "participating restaurant" disclaimers everywhere. Why can't a particular franchise just choose not to participate if it's not in DQ territory? 2. Regardless of whether it's a loss leader, I doubt the marginal cost of the ice cream is more than the $1 or whatever the discounted price is. They paid for the expensive ice cream machine and the counter space. They might as well use it.
  - notreallyserio 5y ago
    As the theory goes, they want to stop DQ from moving in more than they want to recover the counter space used by the offline ice cream machine.
  - hackernewds 5y ago
    because customers drive in to purchase the loss leader, and even when unavailable will purchase alternate items
hackernewds 5y ago