8 ms·

No! A $7.99 domain name and what looks like to me a $99 logo thrown is not a steal or a good deal. Let me come at this way: Can I get the domain off of you for

No! A $7.99 domain name and what looks like to me a $99 logo thrown is not a steal or a good deal. Let me come at this way: Can I get the domain off of you for %80 off the $250 price ? I presume that the answer is no, because it's a lipstick on pig product designed to glorify domain squatting. All the power to you for finding a niche market, but suckers be warned that it's highway robbery! edit: downvoted within 2 minutes of posting this without a reply. i guess you guys were looking for a AAA+++ , would buy again review. what a joke edit2: Sorry for coming off as harsh, but this sort of domain related shit has been plaguing the net for a long time

ljf 15y ago
True a $8 name - but times the (hu)man-hours to find a great one, and add a decent looking design. I've not had luck with either $99 logo designers, nor the logos they create - plus my time to brief them, provide feedback and pay them once 'something' is settled on.
- wildmXranat 15y ago
  Thanks for addressing the comment. Still, the logo is shabby. you will most likely( I would ) get rid of it post-purchase just to get the good domain name. At that point I'm looking to spend some time and get it done properly.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    The logos on this site are uniformly better than the average "Show HN". Every one of them clears the bar of "presentable to early customers". Most clear the bar of "presentable to mainstream customers". None are distinctive, which is to say, none send the signal "we picked one of The Cool Designers and paid $10,000 for this logo". But virtually nobody needs that. Think whatever you want about these designs, but if you bring a prototype to market that looks like the typical "Show HN" because you're too cool to buy a cheap design, you'll suffer for it.
  - ljf 15y ago
    If you would replace the logo you are not their target audience. This is for plug and play people without the time or inclination to perfect something as minor (compared to actually launching and interacting with customers) as branding, just to get a product out there. If you were going to get another logo from the off I'm sure you could spend a few hours thinking of a great (available) name too.
sneak 15y ago
This smacks of "That doctor only spent five minutes in the room, and now he wants $200?!" There is a lot of other value you're buying here - the selection of the name, the connection of the name and an aesthetic, the skills for which don't magically appear in people overnight. Did you look at the site? Care and consideration has been exercised in the branding of these names, from colors to typography. If the "raw materials" are indeed $99 + $7.99, then $250 is a good deal for what amounts to 1.5-2 hours of skilled work to create this finished product.
- wildmXranat 15y ago
  Value is in the domain name itself. There is no justification in defending domain parking. Like I said, offer the domain names at %80 off. That would still be a 600% markup on a $8 domain.
- phillmv 15y ago
  Most of these logos are poor, which means you're going to throw them out. That's all the service includes. [This one](http://stylate.com/portfolio/sporous-com/ http://stylate.com/portfolio/sporous-com/) is just the domain name in a particular font. They don't even include rights to the font! That is bullshit. I'm echoing the "lipstick on a pig glorifying domain squatting." These guys are like upscale spammers, or group buying discount sites.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    First, it's a logotype. Some of the world's most recognizable logos are, like this, logotypes. Second, professional designers do not give you the rights to the typeface they use for their logotypes. You ask them, they obtain them, and then they invoice you the several hundred dollars the logotype cost them. Third, why would you want the font used for this particular logo? It's a terrible display font. Its only value is in creating logotypes like this one. I find this particular critique unfounded.
    - phillmv 15y ago
      >First, it's a logotype. Some of the world's most recognizable logos are, like this, logotypes. I'm willing to accept this. Point to your favour. >Third, why would you want the font used for this particular logo? Because I might want to tweak it, resize it, use it on letterheads, put it on my business card, create sub products that follow the "brand style", etc. A vector drawing at the minimum is essential. That said it's entirely moot because I took a look at their FAQ and: >The logo is a simple mockup designed to feature the domain name but we do send it to you. We have professional logo designers that can tweak or redo the logo if you are interested. Just email us. Eh. Glorified domain squatting. It makes you feel good about paying through the nose for bogus "intellectual property".
csomar 15y ago
What you say is true but doesn't work. With this site, you see before you purchase. When you hire a $99, it's not guaranteed that you'll get something that you'll like or he does understand what you are looking for.
jsavimbi 15y ago
> it's a lipstick on pig product designed to glorify domain squatting There is no way that it could be said any better.
clistctrl 15y ago
Any tips on finding a good place for a custom $99 logo?
- garethsprice 15y ago
  I've used http://www.logodesigncreation.com http://www.logodesigncreation.com multiple times and they've always provided a reliable, consistent service. If your local agency that charges $3k for a logo is Ruth Chris Steakhouse, these guys are McDonalds - and I mean that as a compliment. (No affiliation except as a customer)
- bhartzer 15y ago
  Try logo.com
tptacek 15y ago
Everybody "domainsquats". People joke with each other about how many names they have in their registrar account. These particular people chose an extraordinarily reasonable price point just for the name, and added design services on top. They could charge 4x as much and probably close just as much business, because $1000 is a rounding error for a serious 2-person startup. I don't see why you're bagging on them.
- phillmv 15y ago
  I think a reasonable argument to make against domain squatting is that those who do it as a business… are just charging you a fee solely because they thought of it first. It feels very much like a pure wealth transfer from me to a more entrenched player. It's somewhat analogous to say most software patents, in that their sole purpose seems to be enacting a social cost. You're not going to do anything with that patent/domain, you're just going to wait until someone else thinks of it as well.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Why are we entertaining the idea that there's an argument to be had about domain squatting? I wish we had enacted policies against squatting back in the '90s. But Internet governance did very much the opposite thing. This argument ended a long time ago. Why piss in the wind about it? In the post-domain-squatting world, this is a great offering.
    - phillmv 15y ago
      Hrm. Touché.
    - larrys 15y ago
      "I wish we had enacted policies against squatting back in the '90s." What would your suggestion be as far as a policy that could have stopped domain squatting? I can't think of a scenario that you could have that would allow someone to purchase a name but then not allow them to sell the name. So what you would end up with is names that are registered but have not found their way (through the free market) to the best possible use. People tend to think that if the name they wanted wasn't owned by a squatter who was trying to sell it it would be available when they decided they wanted to use it. It would just be sitting there and not in the hands of someone else for a non squatting purpose. As recently as 2001 I remember attorneys asking if they could use the domain law.com because "I type it in and nothing comes up". As if nobody thought of using that in the prior years or something (and this happened with many names actually). I'd really like to know your thoughts on this.
alex_c 15y ago
This is the kind of pricing philosophy that plagues HN (and I'll admit, I'm guilty of it as often as not). The value of a product is usually not cost of labor + cost of materials, it's the value it brings to the buyer. $106.99 won't get me the same value, because I have to spend long frustrating hours trying to find a decent available domain name, then a few more hours going back and forth with a designer for a logo I may or may not like. Not having to do that is easily worth $143.01. I agree that the domain system is horribly broken, but these guys are closer to a solution than to a problem.
- wildmXranat 15y ago
  In the free market, anything goes. In the domain market, there's a finite space within which we have to work in. If you want to buy a domain at a ( 250/8 = 31.25 ) 3100% markup, so be it.
  - alex_c 15y ago
    Well, how much do you value your time, per hour? And how much time does it take you, on average, to find a decent .com domain name and a decent temporary logo? You don't seem to include that in your calculation - unless your time is free, or you're really amazing at finding domain names. In which case, you could be making a mint.
- froo 15y ago
  The best tool I've found for screwing around with domain names is wordoid which I'll link below While it seems the database hasn't been updated in awhile, it definitely gives very good/quick results without hours of work. http://www.wordoid.com http://www.wordoid.com
  - alex_c 15y ago
    Wordoid is probably the best. I've also used http://www.nameboy.com/ http://www.nameboy.com/ (which seems to be down at the moment), and http://domai.nr/ http://domai.nr/ (if you don't mind non-.com, del.icio.us style domains). Even with those tools, I still hate looking for domain names :)
jessedhillon 15y ago
What you are arguing, essentially, is Marxism, particularly the Labor Theory of Value. You are saying that the value of this product is solely the value of materials and labor. That value created in the mind of the buyer, or in time-saved, doesn't matter. Have you ever spent months of manpower and thousands of dollars coming up with a name for your company? I suspect not, otherwise it would be crystal clear what the value of this service is, and what an absolute steal $250 is. Nobody expects $7 for a domain these days. You might as well complain about how land is so expensive, considering it was all claimed for pennies per acre less than 200 years ago. I don't even care for the logo -- to me it simply provides a demonstration that it's possible to create a decent sounding/looking brand from the name. As for highway robbery -- well, that's fine if you think that. Again I wonder if you've ever been told that the minimum offer for a domain is 5 figures. You can go ahead and insist on your non-existent right to a $7 registration if you please, but pragmatic people who need to get things done ASAP will recognize this as an incredible offer. If you do ever offer a product or service, what will you say when your customer insists that your price solely reflect the cost of materials and labor? EDIT: updated
larrys 15y ago
"is not a steal or a good deal" A steal or good deal is not a reason to buy something in every case. In fact you can end up buying things that you don't need. This is the philosophy of loss leaders. Things that get you into a store based on a deal only to have you end up buying something you didn't necessarily need on inpulse.
brackin 15y ago
I've spent 2 weeks coming up with a name as for me having a good name is important. It's not number one but I know that good names exist so I put the effort in and go through hundreds of names. Using every tool out there before I usually come to one or two that would work. This is great, I see two or three on there that'd work for a prototype i'm working on and may decide to release as a proper app. Saves precious time and is worth it. Some half decent logos as well.

ljf 15y ago

True a $8 name - but times the (hu)man-hours to find a great one, and add a decent looking design. I've not had luck with either $99 logo designers, nor the logos they create - plus my time to brief them, provide feedback and pay them once 'something' is settled on.

wildmXranat 15y ago
Thanks for addressing the comment. Still, the logo is shabby. you will most likely( I would ) get rid of it post-purchase just to get the good domain name. At that point I'm looking to spend some time and get it done properly.
- tptacek 15y ago
  The logos on this site are uniformly better than the average "Show HN". Every one of them clears the bar of "presentable to early customers". Most clear the bar of "presentable to mainstream customers". None are distinctive, which is to say, none send the signal "we picked one of The Cool Designers and paid $10,000 for this logo". But virtually nobody needs that. Think whatever you want about these designs, but if you bring a prototype to market that looks like the typical "Show HN" because you're too cool to buy a cheap design, you'll suffer for it.
- ljf 15y ago
  If you would replace the logo you are not their target audience. This is for plug and play people without the time or inclination to perfect something as minor (compared to actually launching and interacting with customers) as branding, just to get a product out there. If you were going to get another logo from the off I'm sure you could spend a few hours thinking of a great (available) name too.

sneak 15y ago

This smacks of "That doctor only spent five minutes in the room, and now he wants $200?!" There is a lot of other value you're buying here - the selection of the name, the connection of the name and an aesthetic, the skills for which don't magically appear in people overnight. Did you look at the site? Care and consideration has been exercised in the branding of these names, from colors to typography. If the "raw materials" are indeed $99 + $7.99, then $250 is a good deal for what amounts to 1.5-2 hours of skilled work to create this finished product.

wildmXranat 15y ago
Value is in the domain name itself. There is no justification in defending domain parking. Like I said, offer the domain names at %80 off. That would still be a 600% markup on a $8 domain.
phillmv 15y ago
Most of these logos are poor, which means you're going to throw them out. That's all the service includes. [This one](http://stylate.com/portfolio/sporous-com/ http://stylate.com/portfolio/sporous-com/) is just the domain name in a particular font. They don't even include rights to the font! That is bullshit. I'm echoing the "lipstick on a pig glorifying domain squatting." These guys are like upscale spammers, or group buying discount sites.
- tptacek 15y ago
  First, it's a logotype. Some of the world's most recognizable logos are, like this, logotypes. Second, professional designers do not give you the rights to the typeface they use for their logotypes. You ask them, they obtain them, and then they invoice you the several hundred dollars the logotype cost them. Third, why would you want the font used for this particular logo? It's a terrible display font. Its only value is in creating logotypes like this one. I find this particular critique unfounded.
  - phillmv 15y ago
    >First, it's a logotype. Some of the world's most recognizable logos are, like this, logotypes. I'm willing to accept this. Point to your favour. >Third, why would you want the font used for this particular logo? Because I might want to tweak it, resize it, use it on letterheads, put it on my business card, create sub products that follow the "brand style", etc. A vector drawing at the minimum is essential. That said it's entirely moot because I took a look at their FAQ and: >The logo is a simple mockup designed to feature the domain name but we do send it to you. We have professional logo designers that can tweak or redo the logo if you are interested. Just email us. Eh. Glorified domain squatting. It makes you feel good about paying through the nose for bogus "intellectual property".

csomar 15y ago

What you say is true but doesn't work. With this site, you see before you purchase. When you hire a $99, it's not guaranteed that you'll get something that you'll like or he does understand what you are looking for.

jsavimbi 15y ago

> it's a lipstick on pig product designed to glorify domain squatting There is no way that it could be said any better.

clistctrl 15y ago

Any tips on finding a good place for a custom $99 logo?

garethsprice 15y ago
I've used http://www.logodesigncreation.com http://www.logodesigncreation.com multiple times and they've always provided a reliable, consistent service. If your local agency that charges $3k for a logo is Ruth Chris Steakhouse, these guys are McDonalds - and I mean that as a compliment. (No affiliation except as a customer)
bhartzer 15y ago
Try logo.com

tptacek 15y ago

Everybody "domainsquats". People joke with each other about how many names they have in their registrar account. These particular people chose an extraordinarily reasonable price point just for the name, and added design services on top. They could charge 4x as much and probably close just as much business, because $1000 is a rounding error for a serious 2-person startup. I don't see why you're bagging on them.

phillmv 15y ago
I think a reasonable argument to make against domain squatting is that those who do it as a business… are just charging you a fee solely because they thought of it first. It feels very much like a pure wealth transfer from me to a more entrenched player. It's somewhat analogous to say most software patents, in that their sole purpose seems to be enacting a social cost. You're not going to do anything with that patent/domain, you're just going to wait until someone else thinks of it as well.
- tptacek 15y ago
  Why are we entertaining the idea that there's an argument to be had about domain squatting? I wish we had enacted policies against squatting back in the '90s. But Internet governance did very much the opposite thing. This argument ended a long time ago. Why piss in the wind about it? In the post-domain-squatting world, this is a great offering.
  - phillmv 15y ago
    Hrm. Touché.
  - larrys 15y ago
    "I wish we had enacted policies against squatting back in the '90s." What would your suggestion be as far as a policy that could have stopped domain squatting? I can't think of a scenario that you could have that would allow someone to purchase a name but then not allow them to sell the name. So what you would end up with is names that are registered but have not found their way (through the free market) to the best possible use. People tend to think that if the name they wanted wasn't owned by a squatter who was trying to sell it it would be available when they decided they wanted to use it. It would just be sitting there and not in the hands of someone else for a non squatting purpose. As recently as 2001 I remember attorneys asking if they could use the domain law.com because "I type it in and nothing comes up". As if nobody thought of using that in the prior years or something (and this happened with many names actually). I'd really like to know your thoughts on this.

alex_c 15y ago

This is the kind of pricing philosophy that plagues HN (and I'll admit, I'm guilty of it as often as not). The value of a product is usually not cost of labor + cost of materials, it's the value it brings to the buyer. $106.99 won't get me the same value, because I have to spend long frustrating hours trying to find a decent available domain name, then a few more hours going back and forth with a designer for a logo I may or may not like. Not having to do that is easily worth $143.01. I agree that the domain system is horribly broken, but these guys are closer to a solution than to a problem.

wildmXranat 15y ago
In the free market, anything goes. In the domain market, there's a finite space within which we have to work in. If you want to buy a domain at a ( 250/8 = 31.25 ) 3100% markup, so be it.
- alex_c 15y ago
  Well, how much do you value your time, per hour? And how much time does it take you, on average, to find a decent .com domain name and a decent temporary logo? You don't seem to include that in your calculation - unless your time is free, or you're really amazing at finding domain names. In which case, you could be making a mint.
froo 15y ago
The best tool I've found for screwing around with domain names is wordoid which I'll link below While it seems the database hasn't been updated in awhile, it definitely gives very good/quick results without hours of work. http://www.wordoid.com http://www.wordoid.com
- alex_c 15y ago
  Wordoid is probably the best. I've also used http://www.nameboy.com/ http://www.nameboy.com/ (which seems to be down at the moment), and http://domai.nr/ http://domai.nr/ (if you don't mind non-.com, del.icio.us style domains). Even with those tools, I still hate looking for domain names :)

jessedhillon 15y ago

What you are arguing, essentially, is Marxism, particularly the Labor Theory of Value. You are saying that the value of this product is solely the value of materials and labor. That value created in the mind of the buyer, or in time-saved, doesn't matter. Have you ever spent months of manpower and thousands of dollars coming up with a name for your company? I suspect not, otherwise it would be crystal clear what the value of this service is, and what an absolute steal $250 is. Nobody expects $7 for a domain these days. You might as well complain about how land is so expensive, considering it was all claimed for pennies per acre less than 200 years ago. I don't even care for the logo -- to me it simply provides a demonstration that it's possible to create a decent sounding/looking brand from the name. As for highway robbery -- well, that's fine if you think that. Again I wonder if you've ever been told that the minimum offer for a domain is 5 figures. You can go ahead and insist on your non-existent right to a $7 registration if you please, but pragmatic people who need to get things done ASAP will recognize this as an incredible offer. If you do ever offer a product or service, what will you say when your customer insists that your price solely reflect the cost of materials and labor? EDIT: updated

larrys 15y ago

"is not a steal or a good deal" A steal or good deal is not a reason to buy something in every case. In fact you can end up buying things that you don't need. This is the philosophy of loss leaders. Things that get you into a store based on a deal only to have you end up buying something you didn't necessarily need on inpulse.

brackin 15y ago

I've spent 2 weeks coming up with a name as for me having a good name is important. It's not number one but I know that good names exist so I put the effort in and go through hundreds of names. Using every tool out there before I usually come to one or two that would work. This is great, I see two or three on there that'd work for a prototype i'm working on and may decide to release as a proper app. Saves precious time and is worth it. Some half decent logos as well.