5 ms·

I've barely followed what's going on in the conflict, but I think some regions of Eastern Ukraine are the insurgents with respect to the Ukraine government. So

I've barely followed what's going on in the conflict, but I think some regions of Eastern Ukraine are the insurgents with respect to the Ukraine government. So in their case perhaps they've had the time for the past years and finally Ukraine's watches are winding down there. Great proverb.

jacquesm 5y ago
Then maybe you should go bone up on what has happened in the last week or so before commenting? Things have moved quite a bit compared to the state that you describe, to put it very mildly.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  No I know enough to know about the separatist regions, if not by propaganda then by actual action because western governments have begun to scrutinize business dealings with entities in those separatist regions, not just Russia. If everybody had to be actual experts in something before commenting on it here, there would be zero comments about any Russia/Ukraine story. Aside from that It's extremely difficult to get reliable information from any source I have found about the details of the situation. I've not seen anything that is contrary to what I said though. Maybe you can enlighten me.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Too much to summarize but you can start here: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent they're pretty good and if they make mistakes they admit them and correct.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      So you're unable to even point out what part of my comment was not correct or outdated. Doesn't sound like you actually even know. Maybe you should take your own advice with respect to commenting then.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        It reads as though you completely missed the fact that Russia has invaded Ukraine and that therefore the situation you describe is technically correct but taken as a fragment of the whole currently utterly irrelevant.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        I can't help that you "read" something I did not write, and can not follow the context of the discussion. In context it's clear I was talking about this situation of the separatist regions contrasting with the situation of Russia occupying Ukraine. So you're totally out to lunch if you think I completely missed that.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Ok. I found it hard to imagine, but I know one other person that was quite literally so out of touch that he had missed the last week so it was for me at least plausible.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        You may find a mirror to be helpful.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Twitter is never a reliable source for anything. Not only because sane people cannot read most tweets because Twitter now asks you to log in.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Kyivindependent is a news agency hosted in Kyiv, they are obviously pro Ukraine, at the same time I've been reading their stuff for the last couple of days and if the news is bad for their side they report it straight. I'd give them a chance.
koonsolo 5y ago
All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. So how likely do you think it is that those regions are really separatist? Russia claims that the Russians that are fighting there are "volunteers". So basically everybody in that region knows very well who they are really fighting. Not Ukrainians but Russian "volunteers". Ukrainians have both the time (they tasted western freedom and don't want to go back, russian troops need to be paid by the day) and the watches (javlins, stingers, US intelligence and now extra jet fighters)
- cudgy 5y ago
  > All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. How do you know this to be the case?
  - koonsolo 5y ago
    Charkov is mainly Russian speaking. Show me the media where they are welcoming their invaders. Here is the media of the current situation. Doesn't seem very welcoming does it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0x9pqYqvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0x9pqYqvs https://youtu.be/XnTGHUCN7SQ?t=75 https://youtu.be/XnTGHUCN7SQ?t=75
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      The bravery on display makes me choke up. People seem to make the mistake to think that the citizens that speak Russian are automatically pro Russian. But that isn't the case, they are Lithuanians first for the most part.
    - cudgy 5y ago
      Good luck finding video on YouTube favorable to any Russian viewpoints. “The media” is cultivated to display or at least promote the main narrative of the US policymakers.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. I didn't say they wanted Russian occupation necessarily, just that they were separatist from Ukraine. They were all significantly in favor of Ukrainian independence from USSR of course. > So how likely do you think it is that those regions are really separatist? Are you in denial of the existence of Ukrainian separatist regions and the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic?

jacquesm 5y ago

Then maybe you should go bone up on what has happened in the last week or so before commenting? Things have moved quite a bit compared to the state that you describe, to put it very mildly.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
No I know enough to know about the separatist regions, if not by propaganda then by actual action because western governments have begun to scrutinize business dealings with entities in those separatist regions, not just Russia. If everybody had to be actual experts in something before commenting on it here, there would be zero comments about any Russia/Ukraine story. Aside from that It's extremely difficult to get reliable information from any source I have found about the details of the situation. I've not seen anything that is contrary to what I said though. Maybe you can enlighten me.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Too much to summarize but you can start here: https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent they're pretty good and if they make mistakes they admit them and correct.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    So you're unable to even point out what part of my comment was not correct or outdated. Doesn't sound like you actually even know. Maybe you should take your own advice with respect to commenting then.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      It reads as though you completely missed the fact that Russia has invaded Ukraine and that therefore the situation you describe is technically correct but taken as a fragment of the whole currently utterly irrelevant.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        I can't help that you "read" something I did not write, and can not follow the context of the discussion. In context it's clear I was talking about this situation of the separatist regions contrasting with the situation of Russia occupying Ukraine. So you're totally out to lunch if you think I completely missed that.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Ok. I found it hard to imagine, but I know one other person that was quite literally so out of touch that he had missed the last week so it was for me at least plausible.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        You may find a mirror to be helpful.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Twitter is never a reliable source for anything. Not only because sane people cannot read most tweets because Twitter now asks you to log in.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Kyivindependent is a news agency hosted in Kyiv, they are obviously pro Ukraine, at the same time I've been reading their stuff for the last couple of days and if the news is bad for their side they report it straight. I'd give them a chance.

koonsolo 5y ago

All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. So how likely do you think it is that those regions are really separatist? Russia claims that the Russians that are fighting there are "volunteers". So basically everybody in that region knows very well who they are really fighting. Not Ukrainians but Russian "volunteers". Ukrainians have both the time (they tasted western freedom and don't want to go back, russian troops need to be paid by the day) and the watches (javlins, stingers, US intelligence and now extra jet fighters)

cudgy 5y ago
> All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. How do you know this to be the case?
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Charkov is mainly Russian speaking. Show me the media where they are welcoming their invaders. Here is the media of the current situation. Doesn't seem very welcoming does it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0x9pqYqvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0x9pqYqvs https://youtu.be/XnTGHUCN7SQ?t=75 https://youtu.be/XnTGHUCN7SQ?t=75
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The bravery on display makes me choke up. People seem to make the mistake to think that the citizens that speak Russian are automatically pro Russian. But that isn't the case, they are Lithuanians first for the most part.
  - cudgy 5y ago
    Good luck finding video on YouTube favorable to any Russian viewpoints. “The media” is cultivated to display or at least promote the main narrative of the US policymakers.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
> All the Russian speaking Ukrainians are pro Ukraine and want the Russians out. I didn't say they wanted Russian occupation necessarily, just that they were separatist from Ukraine. They were all significantly in favor of Ukrainian independence from USSR of course. > So how likely do you think it is that those regions are really separatist? Are you in denial of the existence of Ukrainian separatist regions and the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic?