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This anti-Russian trope spreading is infuriating. If Apple and Google can stop their Pay services, of course everything else will be stopped. But that also me
by freddealmeida 5y ago
This anti-Russian trope spreading is infuriating. If Apple and Google can stop their Pay services, of course everything else will be stopped. But that also means I don't want to be on those services either. It is too much power to give to Amazon, Microsoft and Google. I will actively move my own services to solutions that don't act like arms of the US government.
- redwood 5y agoI'm not sure I get it: are you saying you do not believe the international community should hold Russia accountable for its murderous incomprehensible actions in Europe?
- nathias 5y agoThey aren't holding Russia accountable, they holding Russians accountable and that seems like a terrible thing.
- spc476 5y agoSo how does one hold Russia accountable?
- CRConrad 5y agoBy holding Russians accountable for continuing to allow Russia to be a dictatorship.
- ihateolives 5y agoThey're not holding Russians accountable, they're hoping that Russians will hold their own government accountable for once. Just, like, for once.
- aa-jv 5y agoThis is also the point of terrorist attacks: that the people will be so outraged when they learn about the terrorists' motives for the attack that they will rise up and "do something" about their government. Americans can't be this shallow. This is ridiculous. THINK about what you are suggesting with these sanctions regimes. Sanctions are a crime against humanity, too.
- dash2 5y agoSanctions are not a crime against humanity. Nobody is forced to accept your currency, or to trade with you. Nobody is forced to provide dollar currency to the murderous, lying regime which has invaded Ukraine. Many Russians are supporting this evil war, out of cowardice or ignorance. They should share some of the pain. That may help them to wake up.
- aa-jv 5y agoWhen sanctions result in a population starving, or children dying because they don't get medical care because of sanctions, they are crimes against humanity. >They should share some of the pain. Such utter totalitarian-authoritarian nonsense. Did 9/11 stop the US from bombing innocent people in the Middle East?
- dash2 5y agoRussia isn’t starving and children aren’t deprived of medical care. As for 9/11, that is a pure red herring.
- aa-jv 5y agoNo, but Yemen children are. So .. Why are we supporting the KSA by shipping it weapons and refuelling their planes, then? Because we learned that genocide by sanctions is an effective weapon, as per Iraq, Libya, etc. Alongside the children of Yemen, we are directing this same policy at the children of Russia.
- ssijak 5y ago
- netfortius 5y agoLack of large reaction to Putin's behavior goes through the stomach and smartphone apps of Russians. Remember 1989 and what the stage of famine and cold and lack of basics had to be, for Romanians to finally take the streets and bring Ceaușescu down. Hard! If the Russians can still sit comfortably at home, playing with Amazon, FB and Google, while their Ukrainian brothers are killed, that is no incentive for uprising. So - sorry - but action in this area seems to require a little incentive.
- dimator 5y agoThis is the point of soft power. Enough pain, and people revolt against the dipshits that earned them the pain.
- nathias 5y agobut if you cause pain to people, aren't you the dipshit?
- CRConrad 5y agoNot if that people have accepted and are condoning a dictator that is causing even more pain (including to that people themselves); then they are the ultimate dipshits.
- nathias 5y agowhat about everyone else?
- CRConrad 5y agoWhat about them (us)? It's not the rest of the world that keeps putting dictators in power in Russia, is it? It's the Russians.
- nathias 5y agothere isn't a single country throught history where the population would be unified in their political opinion, you aren't responsible for actions of your neighbours and there are no justification for using people as tools to hurt economies and states
- CRConrad 5y ago> there are no justification for using people as tools to hurt economies and states Yes of course there is: That's the only way to do it. What else do you think economies and states are, if not people?
- Yoric 5y agoI haven't paid attention to what Google, Amazon, etc. are doing, nor do I particularly care. NATO, EU, Switzerland and a few others are not trying to hold Russians accountable. They are trying to hit the Russian economy strong and hard to demonstrate that Putin's Russia cannot afford a war against the West. That's after Putin and his representatives articulated several times and in no uncertain terms the threat of a nuclear attack against the West. Are people going to suffer for it? Absolutely. That's the definition of a war, even if it the West has chosen to use money to wage it, rather than deploying soldiers. Is it worth it? Time will tell, I suppose. All I can tell you is that in the past week, I have spent time role-playing/strategizing the entire situation with friends (that's how I evacuate stress, YMMV) and, based on the information I have at hand, I would have done the same if I was playing the West.
- nathias 5y agoWould you support banning all US accounts to hold Biden accountable for attacks in Yemen?
- Yoric 5y agoAre you asking me? Pretty sure I didn't advocate for holding anybody accountable. edit Clarified.
- nathias 5y agoI misunderstood, ethics aside why would you think this is a good strategy? From the cases I remember sanctions are making thing worse, are there any examples of sanctions working out as 'intended'?
- Yoric 5y agoExamples of an economic blockade hurting economically a military power? I would need to double-check, but I'd be surprised if it didn't hurt Napoleon's army, as well as Hitler's and Mussolini's, for instance. I remember that one of the reasons for which the Allies won WWII is that towards the end of the war, the Wehrmacht had considerable difficulties finding fuel for their panzers and logistics and had insufficient ammo for extended fights. Hurts bystanders, too, of course.
- hnov 5y agoIf the international community wants to hold Russia accountable, it should pressure Western Europe to stop buying Russian gas. Infrastructure companies grandstanding is idiotic.
- ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 5y agoThose aren't mutually exclusive. Europe's dependence on Russian oil and gas exports has been a major topic of discussion - a search for "Nord Stream 2" might help you get up to date.
- hnov 5y agoAre the existing gas pipelines shut off? Europeans could become the change they want to see and endure a couple of cold years and stop buying gas from places like Russia and Azerbaijan.
- ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 5y agoI assume you're an American living in a warm climate? I get the sense you don't understand what you're asking for. Gas isn't just used for heating people. About 20% of Europe's power is generated using gas, and there is not enough spare capacity to compensate for that. Germany is currently looking to extend the operating life of its nuclear powerplants and will indeed have to consider replacing them despite pledging not to. France and the UK are ahead on this, with the latter investing heavily in small-scale nuclear reactors. The first of those will still take another 10 years to arrive, though. Even if gas was just for heating buildings, what you're asking for would kill quite a lot of elderly and vulnerable people. In the UK alone, it's estimated that 3000 people die each year due to fuel poverty already, and the UK is far from the coldest country in the region. Europe is not California. You are of course correct that we should reduce dependence on fossil fuels (Russian or otherwise), and it was a major error of judgement by our leaders (over several decades) to get us into this position, but that cannot be rectified overnight.
- hnov 5y ago
- fulvioterzapi 5y agoThe USA has a longer story of military aggressions, that killed far, far, far more people. Do you think Amazon should stop doing business with the USA, or are you saying you do not believe the international community should hold the USA accountable for their murderous incomprehensible actions around the world?
- redwood 5y agoIt's that it's Europe and yes the western democracies have a double standard of looking out for each other and near adjadcencies above other countries needs but that's because there's so much more to lose in terms of institutions that are very hard to build and can unfortunately very quickly be torn down.
- isaacremuant 5y agoThe problem with this is that it only gets applied against the enemies of USA and never to USA and friends. Not to Saudi Arabia, not to USA/UK/France, not to Israel. Libya, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Armenia, etc are not worthy victims (see manufacturing consent). The war fervor and demand for generating damage against "the others" is at an all time high and is very clearly propaganda. There's no context (2014 to now, interesting things have been happening in Ukraine) nor desire for peace. It's full on white Vs black and calls for action, not diplomacy. Those of us who have been following Geopolitcs for a while and remember Iraq and others... Will be way more skeptic than to buy a simplified narrative of us Vs "terrible them".
- scrollaway 5y agoAny service you use is going to act in its own best interest. What service will you move to that will exclusively act in your best interest? Best bet is to pick a side.
- sexy_panda 5y agoThey basically have no other choice than closing the account for unpaid bills, if Russia is removed from payment networks. This isn't political, but a result of sanctions applied by politics. Don't get me wrong, I am not really defending the big players, because they generally have a lot of trashy things going on. I'm really just pointing out the obvious results of political changes.
- cbg0 5y ago> This anti-Russian trope spreading is infuriating. I'm sure the Ukrainians feel the same way about the anti-Ukrainian trope saying they are being run by neo-Nazis.
- batushka3 5y agoOrdinary citizens of russia must finaly get that russia started WAR. Many still don't beleieve it. As mass media shows only BS about freeing Ukraine from fascists, info has to get to them via collapsed currency, economy, denial of services and other alternative means.
- tpm 5y agoThis is no anti-Rusian trope, this is the result of economic sanctions which Apple/Google and everyone else must obey.
- thejackgoode 5y agoEvery Russian passport holding person is responsible for this conflict. The sooner they understand this, the more country remaining they will have when this will end
- hnov 5y agoWhen is the world going to come down on us western passport holders? It’s no coincidence we have the standard of life we do, we took it from the marginalized and the weak over the past centuries
- fulvioterzapi 5y ago> Every Russian passport holding person is responsible for this conflict. How, exactly?
- thejackgoode 5y agoTo take action to end it. We are in "unstoppable force vs immovable object" situation. Putin does not have an option to lose. We don't have an option to lose the country once again. These things historically are only resolved by genocide and mass population displacement. Alternative is removing a single person from power.
- chupasaurus 5y agoNazi Germany wasn't stopped by any of those.
- thejackgoode 5y agoNazi Germany did not have VPNs. Information is there, so far. It's a personal decision to look at it or not.
- CRConrad 5y agoAnd for that the German people was held responsible.
- cuteboy19 5y agoFAANGs are not actively invading another country based on nonsensical reasons