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China and Russia have already effectively seceded from the 'open internet'. Those governments have firewalls and killswitches set up in such a way that they can

by dymk 5y ago

China and Russia have already effectively seceded from the 'open internet'. Those governments have firewalls and killswitches set up in such a way that they can censor whatever they want. If they wish to reap the benefits of the open internet, it's only fair they face consequences when they abuse their power.

farseer 5y ago
Who gets to decide if someone abuses their power? For example the UN did not authorize the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
- dymk 5y ago
  Do you think Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not a violation of Uk sovereignty? Is that not an abuse of their power?
  - pipodeclown 5y ago
    Are you just purposefully avoiding the question and intentionally misconstruing the op's intent? Again, what he's asking is who gets to decide what is a abuse of power and what is not? I think the example given by op is right on the money. You don't see the parallel with Irak? Fabricating some story and evidence of weapons of mass destruction and then occupying a country for a decade, sounds like something Putin would do and you might construe that as abuse of power as well. I didn't see anybody calling for the US to be deleted from the internet back then.
  - yucky 5y ago
    I think the argument is that the Ukrainian coup in 2014[1] which was financed and fomented by foreign actors (CIA up to their old tricks), means that the current government is not only illegitimate, but put in power by Russian adversaries specifically to threaten their security. This is why the US stood by when Russia rolled into Crimea, because we knew we were in the wrong and that was the price we had to pay (giving up Crimea to Russia) in order to keep "our guys" in control in Ukraine. It's also why the "Russian Collusion" thing was blown up in 2016. None of these events happened in a vacuum. Not passing judgement on which is side has the most legitimate grievance, just providing context that seems to be skipped over when this matter comes up. [1] https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...
    - HstryrsrBttn 5y ago
andrewinardeer 5y ago
But is it an open internet if a centralised authority can effectively wipe out a top level domain name arbitrarily?
- dymk 5y ago
  The Russian invasion of the Ukraine is not an arbitrary reason to wipe out a TLD.
kvathupo 5y ago
There's a _huge_ difference between having a firewall that can be bypassed by a VPN, and making all Russian websites and email inaccessible from outside Russia. Their request to remove all "domains issued in the Russian Federation" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Do they honestly expect ICANN to spend exorbitant amounts of resources to help companies migrate? To help researchers maintain contact with Russian colleagues?

by dymk 5y ago

farseer 5y ago

Who gets to decide if someone abuses their power? For example the UN did not authorize the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

dymk 5y ago
Do you think Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not a violation of Uk sovereignty? Is that not an abuse of their power?
- pipodeclown 5y ago
  Are you just purposefully avoiding the question and intentionally misconstruing the op's intent? Again, what he's asking is who gets to decide what is a abuse of power and what is not? I think the example given by op is right on the money. You don't see the parallel with Irak? Fabricating some story and evidence of weapons of mass destruction and then occupying a country for a decade, sounds like something Putin would do and you might construe that as abuse of power as well. I didn't see anybody calling for the US to be deleted from the internet back then.
- yucky 5y ago
  I think the argument is that the Ukrainian coup in 2014[1] which was financed and fomented by foreign actors (CIA up to their old tricks), means that the current government is not only illegitimate, but put in power by Russian adversaries specifically to threaten their security. This is why the US stood by when Russia rolled into Crimea, because we knew we were in the wrong and that was the price we had to pay (giving up Crimea to Russia) in order to keep "our guys" in control in Ukraine. It's also why the "Russian Collusion" thing was blown up in 2016. None of these events happened in a vacuum. Not passing judgement on which is side has the most legitimate grievance, just providing context that seems to be skipped over when this matter comes up. [1] https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...
  - HstryrsrBttn 5y ago

andrewinardeer 5y ago

But is it an open internet if a centralised authority can effectively wipe out a top level domain name arbitrarily?

dymk 5y ago
The Russian invasion of the Ukraine is not an arbitrary reason to wipe out a TLD.

kvathupo 5y ago

There's a _huge_ difference between having a firewall that can be bypassed by a VPN, and making all Russian websites and email inaccessible from outside Russia. Their request to remove all "domains issued in the Russian Federation" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Do they honestly expect ICANN to spend exorbitant amounts of resources to help companies migrate? To help researchers maintain contact with Russian colleagues?