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We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. The fact that the most important IC manufacturer is there is important but less important than the human

by rnk 5y ago

We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. The fact that the most important IC manufacturer is there is important but less important than the humans who live in Taiwan. I strongly believe the US plan for "strategic ambiguity" w/r/t Taiwan, which is basically lack of clarity over will the us go to war to help protect Taiwan from China - is stupid. China will attack sooner or later. Democratic countries need to bond together so the current two powerful authoritarian dystopian dictatorships as well as any future ones are not able to destroy them. You don't have a right to destroy my country (looking at China and Russia) because you don't like the fact that we are democratic.

iancmceachern 5y ago
Exactly, insert something about tyrany and good people doing nothing enabling it.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  These situations are too complex to just view them as "democracy = good, tyranny = bad". I firmly believe this is a true statement, but the unchangeable fact of the matter is that attempting to resolve tyranny can lead to more harm than good. There's a reason the cold war was a, well, "cold" war; the consequences of resolving it would have caused far greater harm. This is also the reason NATO is careful to avoid too much direct involvement right now. So in short, also insert something about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
  - iancmceachern 5y ago
    Well said.
  - softfalcon 5y ago
    Mi sasa! Spoken like a true belta pampa who is wise and seen many rotations. Nothing in life is ever simple.
simonh 5y ago
I agree, but several presidents have given clear and unambiguous statements that the US would defend Taiwan. Both Biden and G W Bush did this. In the light of the Ukraine situation strategic ambiguity is looking less and less attractive. A bit more clarity and commitment might have avoided this whole situation. https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/why-strategic-ambiguity-trumps-strategic-clarity-taiwan https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentar...
zionic 5y ago
> We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. There is no “we” anymore. No way in hell am I sending my kids, or allowing my kids to be drafted to fight for this stupid ass country. I don’t like Russia either, before anyone accuses me of that. I’m just pointing out that your collective interest delusion no longer exists, I feel no connection to the country I was born in. Fighting to protect its decaying corrupt corpse is the last thing I’ll do.
- mlindner 5y ago
  I'm not sure which country you're from but without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers. Taiwan MUST be protected.
  - farseer 5y ago
    Correction without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers using the leading edge nodes <=7nm. There would be shortages but there is still Samsung and Intel is catching up.
    - astrange 5y ago
      That’s just TSMC. Taiwan has the leading contract manufacturers Foxconn and Quanta, MediaTek, etc. Not to mention they invented bubble tea.
  - Fricken 5y ago
    If we weren't so antagonistic towards China, business with Taiwan would carry on as usual following a Chinese takeover.
    - mlindner 5y ago
      A Chinese takeover destroys TSMC, assuming it's not done through diplomacy. Industry does not survive war. That's one of the things that gets destroyed. And it most likely will not be done by diplomacy after Taiwan watched what happened to Hong Kong.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
The Taiwanese themselves have used a silicon shield strategy (see https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/computer-chip-shortage-taiwan.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/computer-chip...) to ensure that it is in the USA’s interest to protect them against China. They aren’t counting on the USA’s Democratic altruism (which is understandable).
TexanFeller 5y ago
< The fact that the most important IC manufacturer is there is important but less important than the humans who live in Taiwan. Oh you sweet summer child.

by rnk 5y ago

iancmceachern 5y ago

Exactly, insert something about tyrany and good people doing nothing enabling it.

Beltalowda 5y ago
These situations are too complex to just view them as "democracy = good, tyranny = bad". I firmly believe this is a true statement, but the unchangeable fact of the matter is that attempting to resolve tyranny can lead to more harm than good. There's a reason the cold war was a, well, "cold" war; the consequences of resolving it would have caused far greater harm. This is also the reason NATO is careful to avoid too much direct involvement right now. So in short, also insert something about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
- iancmceachern 5y ago
  Well said.
- softfalcon 5y ago
  Mi sasa! Spoken like a true belta pampa who is wise and seen many rotations. Nothing in life is ever simple.

simonh 5y ago

I agree, but several presidents have given clear and unambiguous statements that the US would defend Taiwan. Both Biden and G W Bush did this. In the light of the Ukraine situation strategic ambiguity is looking less and less attractive. A bit more clarity and commitment might have avoided this whole situation. https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/why-strategic-ambiguity-trumps-strategic-clarity-taiwan https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentar...

zionic 5y ago

> We need to protect Taiwan because they are a democracy. There is no “we” anymore. No way in hell am I sending my kids, or allowing my kids to be drafted to fight for this stupid ass country. I don’t like Russia either, before anyone accuses me of that. I’m just pointing out that your collective interest delusion no longer exists, I feel no connection to the country I was born in. Fighting to protect its decaying corrupt corpse is the last thing I’ll do.

mlindner 5y ago
I'm not sure which country you're from but without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers. Taiwan MUST be protected.
- farseer 5y ago
  Correction without Taiwan there is no Nvidia, Apple, or personal computers using the leading edge nodes <=7nm. There would be shortages but there is still Samsung and Intel is catching up.
  - astrange 5y ago
    That’s just TSMC. Taiwan has the leading contract manufacturers Foxconn and Quanta, MediaTek, etc. Not to mention they invented bubble tea.
- Fricken 5y ago
  If we weren't so antagonistic towards China, business with Taiwan would carry on as usual following a Chinese takeover.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    A Chinese takeover destroys TSMC, assuming it's not done through diplomacy. Industry does not survive war. That's one of the things that gets destroyed. And it most likely will not be done by diplomacy after Taiwan watched what happened to Hong Kong.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

The Taiwanese themselves have used a silicon shield strategy (see https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/computer-chip-shortage-taiwan.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/computer-chip...) to ensure that it is in the USA’s interest to protect them against China. They aren’t counting on the USA’s Democratic altruism (which is understandable).

TexanFeller 5y ago

< The fact that the most important IC manufacturer is there is important but less important than the humans who live in Taiwan. Oh you sweet summer child.