5 ms·

Have you already stopped paying taxes, that fund this war?

hereforphone 5y ago
Perhaps it's not like the US where you stop paying taxes and no one even mentions it for several years. Then you get a slap-on-the-wrist fine and have to pay back taxes.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  Indeed. They pay taxes at the source in Russia, so that humans get to know and discuss their net salary only. It's dehumanizing and depoliticizing and should be changed once Putin is out of power.
  - jbverschoor 5y ago
    Same in the Netherlands.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      I never knew there were so many dehumanizing regimes in Europe!
  - hurflmurfl 5y ago
    Not sure what you're talking about, it was the same when I worked in the UK - unless you switch to self-employment, your employer pays taxes for you and you just get the net salary.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - viraptor 5y ago
    This is not specific to Russia. It's also not even close to dehumanizing. Locally, my employer handles the taxes from my income. I get both numbers on the payslips and get an annual national summary of "what were my taxes spent on".
  - Baloo 5y ago
    What.. here in the UK if you're employed then you do not do tax returns, it's automatically deducted from your salary.. and businesses charge VAT at point of sale.. Nothing "dehumanizing and depoliticizing" about it, in fact I wouldn't ever want to change it. Only those with self-employed income complete tax returns, which is way more efficient.
coward-guy 5y ago
In Russia your employer pays taxes for you whether you want it or not. You don't even know how much.
int_19h 5y ago
Given that Russia has VAT, the only way for Russians to stop paying taxes is to starve to death.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Leaving is another. Being complicit and dying are not the only two options.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    An average Russian can't just pack up bags and leave willy-nilly. Few countries will issue a visa for anything other than tourism or short-term business. If one has skills that are in demand (say, IT), it's easier - but most people don't have those skills. I fail to see how protesting the war is a "way to not pay Russian taxes". Unless you specifically mean refusing to pay taxes to protest the war, which would go about as well in Russia as it would in US. Well, except that, once you get arrested, the cops are likely to "entertain" themselves by e.g. putting a gas mask on you and squeezing the hose. Or shoving a bottle into your anus. Or just beating you with rubber batons until you pass out.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      The protesting issue you describe is a tragedy of commons. Mass denial of global services to Russian people is exactly the incentive for them to overcome it.
  - remram 5y ago
    > There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Do stores refund your VAT if you have a protest sign or something?
    - lostmsu 5y ago
throwawaythekey 5y ago
Hypothetically should Americans stop paying taxes? Their government has a history of arming extremists/conflicts worldwide. I understand the Ukrainian invasion is sickening/a travesty but I struggle to square what appears to be an underlying hypocrisy.
- FabHK 5y ago
  Indeed. And given the state of democracy in Russia and in the US (for now), you could argue that the average US citizen bears more responsibility for the actions of the US government over the last decades than the average Russian for the actions of the Russian government.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Civil disobedience is a personal decision. Judging other people on their decision to practice it is also personal. In the U.S. it is even coded into the Declaration of Independence.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  Specifically Re: hypocrisy. The scale of the issue is the crux to the yes/no answer to your question. Plenty of people drew the line to choose "yes" for the US war efforts in the past. I personally do not believe it would be justified right now.
- morpheos137 5y ago
  Yeah but the main point is America mostly doesn't kill Europeans, certainly not western(ised) ones.
  - strfrthwb 5y ago
    So you are saying it’s ok to kill people with some other skin color or language, like, Iraqi people for example?
    - fleddr 5y ago
      No, it's not OK, but the drive that some people have to make it an issue of skin color is misguided. It's not skin color, it's relevance. Equally cruel, but still different. The world is organized by a small group of countries and power blocks that are in charge, whilst the other 90% has no meaningful economical or military relevance. This in no way makes it "more OK" to do harm, I'm just saying the selector is relevance, not race.

Perhaps it's not like the US where you stop paying taxes and no one even mentions it for several years. Then you get a slap-on-the-wrist fine and have to pay back taxes.

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
Indeed. They pay taxes at the source in Russia, so that humans get to know and discuss their net salary only. It's dehumanizing and depoliticizing and should be changed once Putin is out of power.
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  Same in the Netherlands.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    I never knew there were so many dehumanizing regimes in Europe!
- hurflmurfl 5y ago
  Not sure what you're talking about, it was the same when I worked in the UK - unless you switch to self-employment, your employer pays taxes for you and you just get the net salary.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- viraptor 5y ago
  This is not specific to Russia. It's also not even close to dehumanizing. Locally, my employer handles the taxes from my income. I get both numbers on the payslips and get an annual national summary of "what were my taxes spent on".
- Baloo 5y ago
  What.. here in the UK if you're employed then you do not do tax returns, it's automatically deducted from your salary.. and businesses charge VAT at point of sale.. Nothing "dehumanizing and depoliticizing" about it, in fact I wouldn't ever want to change it. Only those with self-employed income complete tax returns, which is way more efficient.

coward-guy 5y ago

In Russia your employer pays taxes for you whether you want it or not. You don't even know how much.

int_19h 5y ago

Given that Russia has VAT, the only way for Russians to stop paying taxes is to starve to death.

lostmsu 5y ago
There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Leaving is another. Being complicit and dying are not the only two options.
- int_19h 5y ago
  An average Russian can't just pack up bags and leave willy-nilly. Few countries will issue a visa for anything other than tourism or short-term business. If one has skills that are in demand (say, IT), it's easier - but most people don't have those skills. I fail to see how protesting the war is a "way to not pay Russian taxes". Unless you specifically mean refusing to pay taxes to protest the war, which would go about as well in Russia as it would in US. Well, except that, once you get arrested, the cops are likely to "entertain" themselves by e.g. putting a gas mask on you and squeezing the hose. Or shoving a bottle into your anus. Or just beating you with rubber batons until you pass out.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    The protesting issue you describe is a tragedy of commons. Mass denial of global services to Russian people is exactly the incentive for them to overcome it.
- remram 5y ago
  > There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them. Do stores refund your VAT if you have a protest sign or something?
  - lostmsu 5y ago

throwawaythekey 5y ago

Hypothetically should Americans stop paying taxes? Their government has a history of arming extremists/conflicts worldwide. I understand the Ukrainian invasion is sickening/a travesty but I struggle to square what appears to be an underlying hypocrisy.

FabHK 5y ago
Indeed. And given the state of democracy in Russia and in the US (for now), you could argue that the average US citizen bears more responsibility for the actions of the US government over the last decades than the average Russian for the actions of the Russian government.
lostmsu 5y ago
Civil disobedience is a personal decision. Judging other people on their decision to practice it is also personal. In the U.S. it is even coded into the Declaration of Independence.
lostmsu 5y ago
Specifically Re: hypocrisy. The scale of the issue is the crux to the yes/no answer to your question. Plenty of people drew the line to choose "yes" for the US war efforts in the past. I personally do not believe it would be justified right now.
morpheos137 5y ago
Yeah but the main point is America mostly doesn't kill Europeans, certainly not western(ised) ones.
- strfrthwb 5y ago
  So you are saying it’s ok to kill people with some other skin color or language, like, Iraqi people for example?
  - fleddr 5y ago
    No, it's not OK, but the drive that some people have to make it an issue of skin color is misguided. It's not skin color, it's relevance. Equally cruel, but still different. The world is organized by a small group of countries and power blocks that are in charge, whilst the other 90% has no meaningful economical or military relevance. This in no way makes it "more OK" to do harm, I'm just saying the selector is relevance, not race.