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I'm common as muck and spent £150 to try a Michelin star restaurant

469 points by NaOH 5y ago

Jxl180 5y ago
I'm pretty sure there’s a Michelin star food cart in Asia that is like $3/plate. Not every Michelin star restaurant is an expensive French experience.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  In Europe it probably is. My home town has a very cheap Michelin-starred restaurant by the standards of restaurants of that calibre but it's still fairly pricey.
- mzi 5y ago
  He has unfortunately lost his star: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/hawker-chan-singapore-michelin-star-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/hawker-chan-singapore...
- Umofomia 5y ago
  You're probably thinking of Tim Ho Wan in Hong Kong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ho_Wan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ho_Wan
  - kenneth 5y ago
    Tim Ho Wan and Din Tai Fund in Hong Kong both lost their stars. There was a stall in Singapore that also lost its. Kam's Roast Goose in HK also used to have one, but I don't recall if it still does.
showerst 5y ago
This is cool! As someone who's into fine dining, a few thoughts/tips for people starting out: 1. Don't go into a michelin level restaurant expecting "well it's expensive so it should be what I normally eat but better", think of it as its own category of food, that happens to have a really high buy-in price. Lots more crazy flavors, presentation, exotic ingredients, etc. It's not that it has to be 'better' than the best $12 bbq joint you've ever been to, just different. 2. Many very high end restaurants have great lunch deals, which can really cut the price to try them.
- regulation_d 5y ago
  Point 1 is very similar in high end coffee. Sometimes very expensive coffee in the US is substantially better than what you get in the grocery store, but often it's just much different. It might taste like blueberries or strawberry candy or wine. Not necessary better, just weird, hopefully in a whimsical way.
  - ethanbond 5y ago
    Coffee is definitely one of the items that I've found the lowest correlation between price and perceived quality (as a quasi-distinct measure than my own subjective enjoyment). Even among wines, things on the expensive end that I really don't personally like, I can at least convince myself that there's a reason it has the price that it is. Coffee: no discernible relationship.
    - asah 5y ago
      I used to think that about everything that was "better than Starbucks" and then I had fresh civet coffee from a legit place in HCM. It's... the sh*t!
    - regulation_d 5y ago
      I spend a fair amount of money on coffee, but I know what styles and roast levels I like, and I know roasters that do those things well. If you like weird varietals processed with some experimental anaerobic processing method and a light roast, Onyx and Black & White, for example, both do really well with those styles. And they aren't cheap, but I enjoy them. If you favor medium to dark roasts, then Dunkin Donuts brand coffee in the grocery is pretty darn good.
- silisili 5y ago
  These are really good points, and mirror my experience - though we are opposite - I'm definitely not into fine dining. I didn't get point 1 til years later, after more reading. I'd tried uber fancy restaurants a few times, and each time left disappointed and really almost feeling cheated. Odd flavors (to me), small portions, a lot of art on the plate. I never really judged it based on anything but the value and taste, and if you do that, you'll likely be disappointed as I was. I guess I realized I'm just a simple guy who likes common foods, but hey, we're all different.
david927 5y ago
There's food that's great and there's food that's art. If you're lucky enough to have experienced the latter, you'll know it.
gkoberger 5y ago
I'm so glad this was a positive story, and I'm so happy for the author! I went into it expecting this restaurant to be mocked, since articles like this are usually played as a joke. No, not everyone can afford to try a Michelin Star restaurant. A lot of Michelin restaurants suck. And you don't have to pay a ton for a good meal; some of the best food I've ever had has cost $10. However, food is right up there with music as something that connects people. A taste or smell can unlock a memory you thought you lost forever, or create new ones you'll never forget. There's a reason meals are so prominent in movies and literature. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a good relationship with food (in fact, for many, the connotations can be quite negative), and I'm so happy for this person that she loved it. When done right, nice restaurants are an experience. From start to finish, from the food to the drink to the decor to the people, it's closer to going to a Broadway play or art museum than it is a normal meal. For people who can afford it readily, the experience is almost lost. It can become a status symbol, where the Instagram story is more important than enjoying it. It was so charming to see this through the eyes of someone who had no pretentious goals going into it, and had a wonderful time.
- pjmorris 5y ago
  > A taste or smell can unlock a memory you thought you lost forever. Here for a related personal anecdote and a movie reference. On a conference trip to Chicago I managed to snag a reservation for a Michelin-starred restaurant (Alinea.) The first appetizer was an unusual-looking canapé sprayed with a white foam, featuring salmon and dill as key flavors. It took me back to my 10-year-old self sitting at my grandparent's Thanksgiving table which included shrimp with grandma-grown dill. The meal tab was pricy, the recall of a grand moment was something akin to priceless. The movie reference is 'Ratatouille,' where the antagonist restaurant critic has such a moment.
  - leeter 5y ago
    I seem to recall Chef Achatz actually talking about food as an emotional experience given his own trials with cancer and actually losing his ability to taste for awhile. I can't find the interview (or it might have been Chef's table) but I'm pretty sure that informs the style of Alinea.
senkora 5y ago
If you live in a city that has it, then a good meal at a Michelin Star restaurant is a very worthwhile and achievable luxury. Go somewhere with a tasting menu (small plates). I’m happy that the author was able to experience it. In the United States, the Michelin guide awards stars in NYC, Chicago, DC, and California.
mhh__ 5y ago
Slightly OT: The websites that are used by these [name of place]Live sites are absolutely shit. They've bought up all the locals and put them under this banner. Slow, buggy, low information-density. This is how the BBC looked as early as I can vaguely remember it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/default.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/default.stm better in almost every way.
- mellosouls 5y ago
  Yes, Reach media is notorious for the crapness of it's UX experience. It's presumably designed that way intentionally, I mean, they must know. I have no idea of the thinking behind it but I hope the devs, testers and designers behind it hide that part of their experience on their CVs. I mean, the shame they must feel.
  - kuboble 5y ago
    Well... I have second hand knowledge that developers and managers of www.programmzeitung.ch are satisfied with their good and modern website.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    They know. But I suspect there is so little money in local news now (partly because of the internet and partly because of the collapse of newspaper-driven local commerce, small ads, all that), that they do not care; they are in a toxic relationship with the only advertising that pays, and to step outside that and construct a local news model that would be sustainable and not abusive to its readers is the stuff of romance novels and Hallmark movies. With the Reach sites I am surprised by some of the design elements that could be improved even without touching the aggressively bad advertising design, though. The typical "where I live" selector could be so much better.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
  Honestly, if you think Reach's Live sites are bad, you should see the Gannett/Newsquest ones (www.oxfordmail.co.uk is our nearest). They're a whole league worse.
_fat_santa 5y ago
When I was in Italy with my brother back in 2019, we mostly ate at cheap local spots to keep costs down. But towards the end of the trip, I said lets go get some amazing food, regardless of cost. We walked into this little Italian restaurant, ordered an expensive Merlot and a tomahawk steak to share. First the wine, "holy shit" was the exact words I used when I first tasted it, super smooth, to the point where you couldn't feel even the smallest bit of sting from the alcohol. Then the steak, the tenderest steak I've ever had. You cut of pieces of fat and as soon as you put it in your mouth the thing just melts away. In the end dinner set us back 250 euros, and much like this lady, I walked away going "that was worth every penny". Food like that isn't just about the experience, it's also the memory. That dinner I had is now almost 4 years ago but I still remember the wine and the slightly salted steak kisses fingers like an italian
- tomrod 5y ago
  This is how my mother-in-law prepares food. It is a genuine pleasure to eat at her table. The experience, love, and innovation she puts into her recipes are amazing.
  - vmception 5y ago
    I've never had a parent or relative or in-law-equivalent that made me fond of their cooking. Given how much other people associate a good experience with the meals they had prepared by them, I feel like I would love that! But I mostly feel that everyone else is delusional. People really thought I was a picky eater, turns out it was just the local cuisine I guess.
- riccardomc 5y ago
  I am glad you had a nice experience and I mean no disrespect, but you went all the way to Italy to overpay a French wine and an American cut... I guess it means you'll have to go back! Next time go to Florence and order a Fiorentina Steak with a Montepulciano. That's going to be 50€ for two. And, as you said, the memory will last forever.
  - 5y ago
julianlam 5y ago
The wife and I tried a Michelin Star restaurant, along with some restaurants in Toronto without the star, but with tasting menus. I can mirror the sentiment from this article. Tasting menus are absolutely phenomenal, and worth the money, though of course I couldn't afford to have that every single day. The idea of paying good money to a chef so they they can thoughtfully procure food instead of buying slabs of meat in bulk, and prepare it in such a way as to arouse the senses, is not really that wild of an idea (perhaps paying a multiple of a standard meal would be offensive to some, I get that.) My only criticism is that while the food is frickin' amazing, you only get one bite of it, per dish. Maybe two. Maybe that's part of the appeal.
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  > you only get one bite of it, per dish I suppose that gets you to savour it?
  - vmception 5y ago
    At the famous El Bulli, there was speculation and accusation that they were using toxins and poisons. Vigorously denied of course, but perhaps the small sizes allowed for this level of discretion. When I read in this article that the author was for sure they weren't using magic mushrooms or some other kind that would cause a more immediate effect, I was thinking “for suuuuure?” I’ll allow it
  - munificent 5y ago
    "gets you to" has a negative connotation. I think a better way to say it is that it helps you appreciate the large number of courses without getting stuffed or having your senses exhausted. Imagine going to a concert where the band says they are going to play their entire catalog front to back. If you're about to listen to 50 songs, you probably don't want them to also play the extended versions of each one at full blast if you have any hopes of making it through the show.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  > My only criticism is that while the food is frickin' amazing, you only get one bite of it, per dish. Maybe two. Maybe that's part of the appeal. I mean, there's a limit to how much you can eat before you start feeling bloated and over-full. More food per course = less courses. Lots of Michelin starred restaurants in Europe offer tasting menus + a la carte menu (ie. menu where you can choose items) with larger portions. In North America though, most high-end restaurants do one or the other.
vmception 5y ago
> Suddenly, they were not tiny little plates of food for big prices. They were experiences, knowledge and expertise, presented in such a way that I could have flown if I wasn't anchored to the restaurant floor by a crisp table topped with stacks of cutlery. Love this! Her synopsis could have easily gone the other way at “tiny plates of food at big prices”. The experiences and attention to detail are what I like most about Michelin starred places. Especially how a place so fancy can have servers that treat you so personably, which is her experience as well. “Lick the plate! I’ll cover for you!” I’ve been to many places with inferior levels of validation that were much more pretentious, like the Italian places all over America where nothing is in English but you have to pretend you’re cultured enough to just know what everything is - there’s more English on menus in actual Italy! Even in the middle of nowhere! The last thing is how the servers know when to be present without hovering or interrupting too often or too infrequently. Some places must have secret passages just for the wait staff and servers.
- ketzo 5y ago
  The servers at these kinds of places really are career professionals, and it shows. Turns out when you really care about something and do it for a long time under the tutelage of experts, you can get literally 10 or 100 times better at, say, serving someone water without being noticed. They are also, in my experience, just as excited as you are. These people love their work, or they wouldn't be there; they get so happy when people love the food they're serving, and they're always ready to gush with you about how good it is. Very fun interactions.
  - thaway2839 5y ago
    Working at a high quality fine dining restaurant in any capacity is hard work. I don't think it's possible to do it unless you actually enjoy it.
- vidarh 5y ago
  > The last thing is how the servers know when to be present without hovering or interrupting too often or too infrequently. Exactly. You can often tell the step up from good to great by whether the servers are intentionally making a show of their presence vs. when you don't notice them other than when you want to. At one place which should have known better my date and I ended up playing a game of "try to touch the wine bottle before the sommelier would make it to the table" as they insisted on making an annoying show of serving that at first was disruptive rather than helpful, and so we turned to passive aggressive rebellion... But that was funny once - it made me reluctant to go there on dates again. Conversely at some of the best places I've eaten the serving staff are like ninjas and you hardly even notice your napkin is dirty before it has magically been replaced. (I've had memorable interactions with servers who knew when to be noticed, so it's not about never being heard or seen, but about understanding when it adds to the experience and when it would interrupt)
rconti 5y ago
I don't do fine dining either, but what I've noticed at high end places is, much like the author noticed, you get more for your money than you expect, not less. It's true they don't like to be so crass as to talk about money, but other than the obvious (if you want another drink, it'll cost ya), things offered to you are often without charge. Little tastes of this, more of that. The prices on the menu are high, but it seems that once you've swallowed that, when you receive the bill, it's lower than you expect.
- svachalek 5y ago
  I grew up without exposure to much in the way of luxuries, and as an adult they still feel wasteful. But I've learned this is true of a lot of luxury goods and experiences, part of the high price is all the little extras you weren't even expecting because you're used to what you get at the bare-bones price level. One notable exception is high end hotels, at least in the US, especially in the pandemic, where the extra cost mostly just seems to be an invitation to get nickeled and dimed on every little thing you do from parking to wifi. It's the 2 and 3 star hotels that throw freebies and conveniences at you.
  - staindk 5y ago
    I think similar to your counter-example are places/things (restaurants/products) that pretend to be fancy and through that pretense give you a worse product than if they had just cut the crap and served you what they could. I guess it's the tourist trap kind of place generally. They may be 80% of the way there in many ways, but the other 20% consists of so many glaring issues that it ruins the whole experience.
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supernova87a 5y ago
Good story. One thing to remember or value when you go to these places is that you're not largely paying for the food. You're paying for 4-5x the people per diner than any normal restaurant -- you're paying for their time to pore over the ingredients more carefully than you would yourself, their time to learn about and explain it to you, their time to come up with amusing and interesting ways to prepare it, their time to wait on you like a sultan and never fail to bore your palate. Not saying that it's worth it for everyone or that it's even completely justified as they think it is (every artist thinks that any excessive amount they spend on some esoterica is "worth it"), but that's really where your $ are going. Maybe that's the way to think about it -- you're paying for art. And being one of the few diners who the cost of paying for people's livelihoods is spread over (especially if those people have student loans to pay for) -- that is expensive.
jaywalk 5y ago
I haven't had the pleasure of eating at a Michelin star restaurant (yet, I fully intend to at some point) but I have eaten at places that could probably get at least one star if they were located in a city where Michelin gave them out. It is truly an unforgettable experience from start to finish. It's obvious that so much thought and care goes into everything that you can't even really compare it to a regular "nice" restaurant. It's an entirely different class of dining, and this article conveyed it perfectly. Made me want to prioritize getting to an actual Michelin star restaurant.
davio 5y ago
Reminds me of this dystopian Michelin star restaurant experience: https://everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-eat-at-the-worst-michelin-starred-restaurant-ever/ https://everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-e...
- martopix 5y ago
  This person clearly has never been to a Michelin-level restaurant before. > Very, very expensive theater. Well yes, it's also theatre. It's a form of art. The dishes were tiny? You chose the 27-course tasting menu. What did he expect, 27 large portions of lasagne? Most of the article seems to be just about how everything was only small mouthfuls, but this is perfectly normal. Perhaps the same restaurant has an a la carte menu, or a 6-course tasting. That would be different. Here [1] is a video of people eating there, and they are quite satisfied. PS: of course you can eat rancid things. If you're not willing to try weird stuff you just choose another restaurant. Not a michelin-starred one that is particularly famous for quirky stuff, like Bros. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvLiQZhg3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvLiQZhg3Y
  - jjulius 5y ago
    I've dined at quite a few Michelin-level restaurants and disagree with your take on the piece. Yes, this sort of dining is more akin theatre, and art, and an educational experience. I agree with you that, generally, people shouldn't be surprised at the portion sizes when it's a 27-course meal. That said, there are many notable points that that review makes, much of which should warrant, IMO, a re-examination of whether or not they actually deserve a Michelin star. Let's start with a look at their post-script at the end of the article, since it's about portion-sizing: >Note: the TripAdvisor reviews show a lot of elaborate courses, and these were all way, way more food than anything we ate. I cannot express to you how little we were fed, and I’m not a particularly big eater. Allergy and dietary restrictions were largely ignored. >The servers will not explain to you what the hell is going on. >When a member of our party stood up during the lengthy stretch between courses to go have a cigarette outside, and was scolded to sit down. >When one member of our party was served nothing for three consecutive courses, because they couldn’t figure out how to accommodate her food allergies. >When Rand was served food he was allergic to, repeatedly, because they didn’t care enough to accommodate his. I've never seen a Michelin-level restaurant just flat-out not serve a guest a course (in this case multiple - three!) because of their dietary restrictions, nor have I seen a Michelin-level restaurant "forget" about said restriction. >When a server reprimanded me for eating. These reconstituted orange slices (one per person) were a course. I asked if I could eat the real orange that had been served alongside it (we’d all gotten one, and I, at this point, was extremely hungry). “Yes,” the server said, annoyed. “But you aren’t really supposed to.” He let me have two segments and then whisked the fruit away. So they served edible food and then took it away before people were finished eating? >That’s the problem with a tasting menu. With so many courses, you just assume things are going to turn around. Every dish is a chance for redemption. Maybe this meal was like Nic Cage’s career – you have to wait a really long time for the good stuff, but there is good stuff. Clearly the servers were not communicating the progress of the meal to the guests: >“Would you like red or white?” the server asked. >“What are we having for the main?” she inquired. >His face blanched. >“The… main, madame? Um… we’re about to move on to dessert.” Or this description-less explanation of a dish from a server: >“We’ve infused these droplets with meat molecules,” the server explained, and left. >... and a dish called “frozen air” which literally melted before you could eat it... >P.S. – The next day, one of the staff tried contacting the only single female member of our party via Instagram messages. “Hey, I served you last night!” I mean, there's art [nods head], and then there's art [shakes head]. If you take the time to read the article, it's apparent that these guests have dined at tasting-menu establishments before, perhaps even Michelin-level spots. But to be fair to them, Lecce absolutely does seem like it's trying entirely too damned hard to be over the top in a way that is detrimental to itself.
hirundo 5y ago
It's been two years since I've eaten at a restaurant, and about five years before that. When I do go the food is quite memorable, compared to home cooking. If you want to make restaurant visits special just make them rare. Michelin restaurants are for people further down that particular hedonistic treadmill than me.
brent_noorda 5y ago
Recently tried the new Fiesta Veggie Burrito at Taco Bell. Two dollars. Exquisite.
- stretchpants 5y ago
  hilarious!!!!!
jefc1111 5y ago
Great article! Brought back a memory I haven't accessed for a long time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IRqqp8vHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IRqqp8vHw
raspyberr 5y ago
I tried a Michelin star restaurant once and, pardon the pun, it left a really sour taste in my mouth. We were warned by friends who had been there before to eat a little something before going. We did and even so we were still starving throughout and after. It's hard to concentrate on delicate flavours and nuances when you're really hungry and it's 20 minutes between each spoonful of food for 4 hours. There were lots of other criticisms but that was the biggest one. I felt thoroughly dissastisfied by the end.
- youarethebest 5y ago
  I've read a lot of reviews like that in Tripadvisor. I don't think you go there to feel "full". What's your obesity range atm?
samgranieri 5y ago
I've been to (as best I can remember) three Michelin starred restaurants in my life: Sierra Mar in Big Sur, California, Il Bucco in Sorrento, Italy (for my honeymoon), and Schwa in my hometown of Chicago. My wife and I had a lovely time at each place.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Schwa is very unlike a typical Michelin place; I'm surprised it's starred. My understanding is that Michelin heavily weights service and ambience, neither of which are, uh, specialties of Schwa; it's the most downmarket tasting menu place I've ever been to (that's not to take anything away from it; I liked Schwa more than I liked Alinea).
nkrisc 5y ago
A three star restaurant really is something different. It’s not just the experience, the quality and consistency is just something that’s hard to find elsewhere. The best cup of black coffee I’ve ever had was at a three star restaurant. It was just a simple cup of coffee but it was just made completely perfectly. Great beans I’m sure, a good roast, brewed exactly the right way. You can of course get that outside of a Michelin starred restaurant easily, but the point is in a three star restaurant everything is perfect, even the cup of coffee you have after dinner. They didn’t teen me where the beans were from or who roasted it, it was pedestrian for them.
jamespwilliams 5y ago
Michelin also gives out an award for 'good quality, good value restaurants', called the Bib Gourmand, which is worth looking into. Bib Gourmand restaurants are often still a bit more expensive than the average restaurant in a place, but are generally of very very good quality and value for money.
- christkv 5y ago
  I second this one, all my visits to Bib Gourmand rated restaurants have been great.
schmichael 5y ago
One of my first fine dining experiences was similar. A date for my wife and I paid for by my employer after a weekend ruined by an outage. I had steak tartare (fixed!) for the first time. I had cognac (outside of cheap cognac in a mixed drink) for the first time. A family at a nearby table had sweaters tied around their shoulders and were literally discussing their yacht club. As someone who grew up with public school teachers for parents and corn fields surrounding my house, it was transcendental. The staff was just as lovely as the food, and it's easily the best gift I've ever gotten from an employer.
- rory 5y ago
  Apologies for being an internet corrector, but it's actually "tartare," from the old French belief (or perhaps joke) that the Golden Horde Tatars didn't have time to cook their meat when on the move. So they just softened it under their saddles as they rode, then ate it raw. Kind of funny that such a now-fancy food is supposed to taste as if you ate it from under a nomad's butt.
  - brilee 5y ago
    This article suggests this etymology is made up... https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/06/dining/the-raw-truth-dont-blame-the-mongols-or-their-horses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/06/dining/the-raw-truth-dont...
    - rory 5y ago
      Oh. Well it's a good urban legend anyway.
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oliv__ 5y ago
zwaps 5y ago
I went to a Michelin-starred vegan restaurant in Berlin (on the wall was a mural spelling the F-word and you had to walk through a warehouse to "find" the place) and it was really good. The wine was also very good. I wasn't "crying" but it sure was the best meal I ever had from a mere taste standpoint. Whether it's worth it depends entirely on how much money you have. If you are FAANG Engineer rich, you could probably eat there every day if you'd wanted to. In that case, yeah it's worth it. If you earn the median salary in the EU, then nah.
BashiBazouk 5y ago
I've eaten at three Michelin Stared restaurants in the bay area. Gary Danko, CPQR and Manresa. All were interesting experiences. Gary Danko was by far my favorite. The other two felt like it was all about he ego of the chef. Gary Danko was all about my enjoyment of the meal. They have three courses separated in sections, but you can mix and match. If you want a taste of filet mignon as an appetizer and a huge plate of escargot for your main, that's fine with them. Their wait staff is by far the most elite I have ever experienced. No one asking you if you need anything and not a waiter to be found, unless you need something then they magically appeared just as the thought was percolating into consciousness. Amazing. CPQR was weird. We did three courses from the menu. Appetizer was the best, but the most memorable was the second course, though not for the taste. I order a pasta dish and before they serve they place a steak knife next to me. A steak knife, what the hell did I order? The dish comes and looking at it I'm still wondering what exactly I ordered... Manresa was also a unique experience. First all the dishes were absolutely, amazing. One person in our party did not like fish except for scallops, which they accommodated. We proceed to have five fish based dishes in a row. Even though all five were fantastic, at the end my mouth felt like a tide pool, and having grown up on the beaches of Santa Cruz, I know that taste/feeling well. On the third fish dish, our friend got his scallops and boy did they look good. Then on the fifth and last fish dish he was served squab. The rest of us looked longingly at that bird, our collective mouths watering. He was lucky to leave that table alive... I think the food was more inventive and more perfectly cooked at CPQR and Manresa but it's Gary Danko I would like to go back to.
- tpmx 5y ago
  I really like how this menu is presented: http://garydanko.com/wp-content/uploads/garydanko/main-menu-2.24.22.pdf http://garydanko.com/wp-content/uploads/garydanko/main-menu-... A high but suitable amount of details, common English words being used, etc. I really hate having to google 10-15 terms when reading a menu because the chef felt the need to use non-English terms (often French) or extremely uncommon English terms.
- mercutio2 5y ago
  This is hilarious to me, because Gary Danko is the only Michelin starred restaurant my wife and I immediately said "never going back there" as we left, and laugh about how bad it was every time we drive past. The food was mundane, poorly prepared, un-special in about every way. I could not fathom, from our night there, how it maintains its Michelin star. I assume by CPQR you mean SPQR? I only dined their before they got their Michelin star, I thought it was OK at the time, but not as good as an average high quality SF restaurant.
alkonaut 5y ago
Highly recommend doing this occasionally. Like so many other things, quantity can be exchanged for quantity. Go to a 5x more expensive restaurant and skip 4 meals at cheaper restaurants. Restaurants that are expensive-ish but not sublime or memorable experiences can be skipped. Eat cheaply or really expensively. Skip “quite expensive but not fantastic” restaurants. Tasting menus at one star restaurants is where the value is.
MajorBee 5y ago
Great article! I particularly appreciated the author's positive description of a good experience in a world where cynical takes are more dominant. Standout line for me from the article: > When my bouche was adequately amused,
motohagiography 5y ago
For anyone intimidated by fine dining, I'd say approach it by recognizing that the people involved are really excited about providing a memorable experience for you, and that they've worked years at perfecting the whole performance of it, and making you feel comfortable and welcome (with adult boundaries) is their vocation. For a lot of professional waiters and cooks, it's like performing music, so be interested and curious and let yourself be delighted. It can also be a bit overwhelming, so even though you have probably eaten in restaurants before, treat fine dining like a new experience, as they've tried to make it one. Professional staff can handle just about anything, and there's not much they haven't seen. The secret I think is to know before hand who is paying, have a sense of the budget from online menus before ordering so you don't have to focus on the prices, respect the personal boundaries of the servers, and if it's your first time, consider that you'd like to be welcome back. I don't think any of them have a gong they smash whenever they see someone using their dinner fork for the salad, and some decorative table settings actually break with convention and can be a bit mystifying, so if you don't know what's what, ask. They can accomodate most things, but make dietary restrictions known during the reservation, as they'll usually prep for them. They're about providing a unique experience, so if your needs aren't medical, consider whether you're open to a new experience before spending a lot on one. Fine dining restaurants employ dozens of people with specialized skills, and provide livings that support families, so go, get treated like royalty for a bit, and use it as a waypoint for how well you can be treated and how good something as simple as food can be, then use the expereince to enrich your life.
- mprovost 5y ago
  Yes I could really feel the social anxiety coming through in the article. One thing that someone told me that really helped is that everyone is trying to help you by telling you what you should do. So if they ask to take your coat, say yes. They're telling you that it's not appropriate to keep it on the back of your chair. If they ask you if you want to wait at the bar, say yes. Basically, just keep saying yes. At this kind of place they aren't out to get you by sneaking in an extra charge for something (I could also feel her concern there). If it does involve money, like choosing a wine, you can also just ask for some advice. "What would you recommend around £30?" The staff aren't going to judge you - or if they are they'll have a whole new round of folk to judge tomorrow and won't remember your face.
hardwaregeek 5y ago
I love how the author came in with an open mind and let herself be taken away by the experience. It's rare that you see an article that's just about enjoying the experience and not scrutinizing it. I've been to a few Michelin starred restaurants. For me, it's surprisingly inconsistent. I can have a meal that I absolutely adore (L'Astrance) and a meal that's merely decent (Pujol). That said, I try to enter each experience with an open mind. There's no cause for cynicism at the dinner table.
- gommm 5y ago
  I'm curious, for Pujol, did you have the tasting menu or the omakase tacos? I'm asking because the first time I went, I had the tasting menu and was very disappointed, thought it was vastly overpriced for what it was.. I wasn't planning to return but had to (because I was supposed to eat there with a client of mine) and the second time, I had the omakase tacos and absolutely adored it. So, now I'm curious if you might have had the same experience I had with the first meal.
  - hardwaregeek 5y ago
    Yeah I did. I suspect you're right. It's a shame that they removed the tacos from the tasting menu. Perhaps I'll give it another shot when I'm in Mexico City again!
    - snug 5y ago
      Omakase Tacos at the bar! They give you a drink with every taco, and usually someone won't like a drink and they'll make a special one, ask them curiously what that drink was and they will make you one. All drinks are included on the tasting menu!
sva_ 5y ago
I always had a low opinion on these high-end restaurants, but had my girlfriend convince me to try a Michelin stared restaurant. I have to say that my opinion has completely changed, and I've tried a few since. One Japanese one in particular, was the best food I've ever tasted. I didn't think such an experience was possible - it was way out of scope of things imaginable for me. I've since been thinking, we spend a lot of money for certain experiences in life, but paying such amounts for a meal is for most people ridiculous. Our sense of taste is a big factor that can perceive a staggering amount of combinations, so I think it is justifiable to spend a bit more money to go on a kind of culinary adventure from time to time.
- dunham 5y ago
  I enjoy cooking. I go to restaurants like that to experience new food and maybe take away a few ideas. A Meal at a three star restaurant is very expensive, but it's an experience I've enjoyed. (I've also enjoyed meals at places completely off of Michelin's radar. For me, stuff like tapas / small plates is nice because I can try different things without filling up.) Some people couldn't imagine spending that kind of money for a meal. I couldn't imagine spending that kind of money to be at the superbowl. I suspect everybody has their own thing that is worth it to them.
  - sva_ 5y ago
    > I suspect everybody has their own thing that is worth it to them. That's a great thing about people, and a reminder that one should be humble and not judge people for how they're into some (perhaps niche) interests. > I enjoy cooking. I go to restaurants like that to experience new food and maybe take away a few ideas. It's a little counter-intuitive, I think, because one might assume that after having had some really great food, everything else will be bland. But it isn't so, as you say. It is an enriching experience contributing to one's ability to appreciate, and perhaps even make more things.
munificent 5y ago
Some of my favorite experiences were excellent meals. I hate the idea that fine dining is only for the immoral rich who are happy to conspicuously consume their way through an overpriced meal. A great meal can be as eminently rewarding as any great sensory experience and equally worth the price. If you don't see anything wrong with buying a hotel room to hear a concert from a favorite band in a distant city, or buying a plane ticket to fly somewhere with an incredible view, then there's equally nothing wrong with every now and then splurging on an amazing meal.
nemo44x 5y ago
This article made my eyes well up a bit. I love food and appreciate cooking and love to see people discover cooking at this level. The author’s reaction to it all, noticing the little details, is just beautiful. I also miss going to these types of restaurants and it makes me a bit sentimental. But soon it will all return, I hope.
iamben 5y ago
Quick story - I used to talk to a guy that worked in my building quite a lot about the food we ate. He told me that growing up he absolutely hated food. When he went to university his housemates decided to go to a Michelin starred restaurant and invited him. After a lot of turning them down (because "what's the point, food is grossly overpriced, I don't care for it," etc etc), he finally agreed. He said "coming home that night I realised my mother was a terrible, terrible, terrible cook." From then on it was like a whole new world opened up to him... I always loved that. A) it's funny how our past experiences can completely (and sometimes incorrectly) shape our perceptions of the now. B) food can be such a wonderful thing - the smallest thing can make you so absolutely happy. And when someone just nails it (simple or not!), it really is quite the experience.
- throwewey 5y ago
  I have the exact opposite story: I can't really eat anywhere because my dad was an astonishing cook growing up. I've tried various places with varying amounts of stars, and nothing has come close to what my father used to cook. On top of that, I'm also a terrible cook so eating has become a chore, something that I have to do to survive.
  - iamben 5y ago
    Gah! Disaster! Was he a professional, or just a very good hobbyist? My baseline is somewhat in the middle. Mum was a good cook, she did everything _well_. There's always room for excellence and new(?) flavours, but I know what isn't good.
- jjulius 5y ago
  I was kind of similar to this person. My dad worked at buffets and within the restaurant industry, but he always managed them - never cooked at them (does one actually ever cook at a buffet?). He prided himself on being the cook of the family but he only really excels at a couple of dishes. My mom's a decent enough cook, but just decent enough. Steaks were cooked well, and paired with ketchup. So, I grew up picky as hell. I'm 34, and I can still remember my third date with my wife when we were both 21. I ordered a turkey pesto sandwich and said, "with no vegetables". My then-barely-GF blurted out, "NO VEGETABLES!?" without even thinking about it, which sorta shamed me but not in a way, obviously, that put me off from seeing her again, lol. Turns out her dad loves to cook, and her entire family loves going out to eat. My restaurant experiences were, by and large, limited to Applebee's and other crappy chain restaurants up to that point in my life. So, I started giving things chances; I started branching out culturally while still trying to find meat-focused dishes within that cuisine. Eventually, we started eating at nicer restaurants. Going back to what I said about steaks above, I made it to my mid-20's absolutely hating steak. I thought people were idiots for loving it so much. I went to a steakhouse (Kevin Rathbun Steak in ATL) for my SIL's birthday one year and avoided the steak because of those misgivings. I opted for the lamb, and chose "rare" when asked how I wanted it cooked because I figured I'd never had anything rare and I may as well try it. I immediately fell in love, and ended up trying a rare steak a few months later. Now, I'm all about that 30+-day dry-aged, incredibly well-marbled ribeye! I also forced myself to stop picking everything off. Don't like something because of it's texture? Try a smaller piece of it and see if you like the taste and how that taste pairs with the rest of the dish. Slowly, things fell into place for me and I began to appreciate more. Then, we moved to the Bay Area and it's gigantic concentration of Michelin-level restaurants. My first Michelin joint had a tasting menu, and I told myself that the food at Michelin restaurants is definitely going to be good. Whatever is on that plate is going to highlight what makes that ingredient so good, why people like it, etc.. So my mantra was, "just eat it". Don't normally like it? Don't care, because if I'm ever going to have it at it's best, now is the time to see what the fuss is all about. Holy shit did my world change. At this point, I'll eat anything. Texture is where I still struggle just a bit, but I'm keenly aware of what I do and don't react to in certain ways. So these foods can't be the focus of a dish, but I'll never shy away from eating them if their purpose of the dish is more 'complimentary', for lack of a better word. Taking this approach has allowed me to teach myself to appreciate the flavor, which then prompts me to eat it again, which gets me used to the texture, and ultimately gets me towards not being bothered so much by it. All that rambling is to say - YES, I completely understand where your friend is coming from and I have thoroughly enjoyed having a similar experience.
notjustanymike 5y ago
Michelin starred restaurants place a lot of emphasis on ensuring YOU enjoy your meal. Professional service does not judge, and is not snooty the way movies depict. I just ate at SAGA in NYC in January; the servers were amazingly knowledgeable, wonderfully approachable, and ours wore a jumpsuit and sneakers. Not snooty, but ask about the wine and they'll happily share a wealth of information about the region it's from. If you leave a restaurant feeling worse because of a servers behavior then it's their fault, not yours.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I know couple of chefs at high end restaurants and they are good friends. They are also normal people and I don't think they would work at places that treat less fortunate people (say can only do something like this once a year, if ever) without respect. As long as you treat the waitstaff well and aren't loud and overbearing they love to have you in and enjoy the fine cooking. Just don't bring three screaming toddlers and leave $5 tip and you'll be fine if anyone is curious but hasn't gone on a food adventure. Myself I came from a poor upbringing and was pretty nervous about my first few high end restaurants as a 20 something with "new money".
j7ake 5y ago
I actually find many high end restaurants to be worth the money. It averages about 150 per person, but often there can be as many as 10 courses. If one thought about how much each individual course cost, about 10 bucks on average, it is already a good deal (some dishes are caviar, foie gras, lobster…). Add to that you’re sitting there spending a nice 3 hours with someone special and enjoying a story told through the taste buds. Most of the times it is worth the money.
hangonhn 5y ago
My wife and I went to a Michelin star restaurant to celebrate our engagement. That the food was good was expected but the whole experience was just amazing. I think service and attention to detail and caring about the customer really makes the whole experience just so different. When they found out that we just got engaged, they printed out a new menu with all the dishes but also with "Congratulations" at the top. My fiancee/wife ordered a wine pairing but I skipped it because I'm a total lightweight and I was the driver. My wife would hand me her glass just to try a sip. When they noticed that they just brought out another glass for me each time they pour her from a new bottle and would pour me a small sip as well. We didn't have to ask and they didn't try to charge us for another wine pairing. The whole experience was just delightful. Highly recommend Single Thread in Healdsburg if you do decide to go to one. Yes I did pick it partly because of the name and I'm a software engineer.
kevinventullo 5y ago
If you’re in the Boston area, I recommend Tasting Counter in Somerville. No Michelin star as far as I’m aware, but a similar experience in that there are several small plates with flavors and textures I’ve not had elsewhere.
Mikeb85 5y ago
Fine dining is more of an 'experience' than a meal. It's like going to the theatre or watching an orchestra perform. You're not paying for the food you receive per se, you're paying for the room, all the staff buzzing around to provide you with the experience, all the cooks required to give you 10 courses of something interesting and well-made, etc... It's a cultural experience. And the culture you're experiencing ranges from very old cuisine to very new cuisine, local culture to something very foreign, etc... Also for anyone who thinks they're not 'fancy' enough to enjoy it, consider that cooks, chefs and servers are pretty much the definition of 'working class'. And the food is (usually anyway) delicious and interesting.
flossmaster 5y ago
Even at such top-tier restaurants, you probably still need to bring your own dental floss.
vmception 5y ago
> So when the Michelin guide came out last week, and Birmingham kept hold of its five stars Help me out with something Although Michelin Stars only go to 3 stars The Michelin guide for an area (which includes non-Michelin starred restaurants) goes to 5 stars? Or does she mean that the city of Birmingham has a total of 5 Michelin stars in the whole city, of which the restaurant she went to had procured 2 of those stars, leaving 3 stars to be split between one or two other restuarants.
- nerdawson 5y ago
  In the article, they describe it as being close to two stars. There are 5 restaurants in Birmingham with a Michelin star.
temp83353 5y ago
gorbachev 5y ago
Such a wonderful article! I haven't dined in Michelin star restaurants, but a handful of very, very good ones for special occasions with my wife. The experience has been exactly as the the writer of that article had, every time. Great food is magical.
JasonFruit 5y ago
This person writes with the intention of sounding "common as muck", but their intellect and sensitivity comes through clearly. It was really a good read.
globular-toast 5y ago
Last time I dined at a Michélin star restaurant it was about £100 for two all in. About 5 courses if I remember correctly. That was less than ten years ago. Is £150 for one really the going rate now?
anonymousDan 5y ago
The michelin guide is a fantastic free online resource. The recommendations are so much more reliable than something like TripAdvisor. The key thing to understand though is that you are not just limited to going to 1-3 star Michelin restaurants (which are usually fantastic but often expensive). Instead if you are on a bit more of a budget look for the 'Bib Gourmand' rated restaurants. In my experience these usually provide fantastic value for money. Below that they also have categories such as the Michelin 'Plate', but these tend to be a bit more variable.
bob66 5y ago
walnutclosefarm 5y ago
For years I spent a week every month or month and a half in Paris. Dined at dozens of different establishments, ranging from street vendors to starred restaurants. The best food and experience were in a not-ranked-by-anyone-anywhere Lebanese place in the Levantine quarter, and a hole-in-the-wall that served SW France provincial fare. Neither was particularly expensive. Similarly, the best Chinese food by far that I've ever had was when I convinced a colleague in Shanghai (who was a native of Szechuan) to take me to the Szechuanese place he'd choose, out of all he knew about Shanghai. Of course that cost a pittance, in US dollars, as back in those days everything in Shanghai did. The food was unbelievable. Ten times better than the starred menus I'd had in Paris and the Cote d'Azur in France. Best sushi meal I've had, far and away, was in a place in near the old Tsukiji market in Tokyo. Seating for maybe 12 in the whole place, but plate after plate of single or double bites. But that one wasn't cheap - the author's 150 British pound wouldn't have covered the bill even a decade and a half ago when I ate there.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
This was well written. I appreciate the “commonness” of her article :) . My less literate experiences have been similar, as someone who scoffs at paying more than $10 for a meal. It's really nice to treat yourself (and your SO) to a really posh dinner occasionally, maybe a few times a year, and it's usually not as hard as people figure, although she lucked out at only 2 days wait (without being a millionaire pulling strings).
mbf1 5y ago
My wife booked us a river cruise on the Napo river for my birthday - one of the many tributaries of the Amazon river in Ecuador. The chef on the boat had the most amazing dishes every day / night for a week. I would believe he was a Michelin star chef by the amazing varieties of perfection that came out of the kitchen.
vegancap 5y ago
I lived in Lichfield for eight years, there's some really decent restaurants there for sure. Not that I ever went! Surprised to see a Birmingham Mail article, front-page HN :D
bryanmgreen 5y ago
My takeaway from great meals that is restaurants are snow globes. You may not remember the food, but you'll always have the memory and all the events and experiences that led up to that time. Years later you can shake that mental snow globe and get a happy nostalgia trip. That's worth the money to me.
thamer 5y ago
If you drink alcohol and have the option to get the wine pairing in a Michelin star restaurant, I'd highly recommend it. They are usually offered only with a prix-fixe menu where all the courses are pre-selected. With (say) 7 dishes you'd have 5-7 small glasses of wine, each selected from the restaurant's cellar by a sommelier who knows what would go perfectly with each dish. This is a much better option than getting your own drink or a bottle to share with the table, and the experience of pairing amazing food with just the right drink is on another level.
- Yen 5y ago
  If you don't drink alcohol - don't be afraid to ask for a non-alcoholic pairing! Worst they can say is "no can do". The one time I asked, it turned out that our server was ~30 years sober himself, and asked their bartender what they could do. What they could do was, a variety of alcohol-substitute drinks, mixes of spices that didn't replace wine, but achieved the same culinary role, and custom dry cocktails. Drinks that, given the description, I never would have ordered. Drinks that, by themselves, didn't do what I thought a beverage did. It was amazing.
sabman83 5y ago
That's why I love Vegas. Amazing food, amazing experience easily accessible to all.
subpixel 5y ago
While I applaud the positivity here and relish it, when meals like this are no longer highly unusual to you they can also cease to be highly rewarding. The key to repeated pleasure in this arena is to not fetishize luxury or cost, but rather to focus on the things that matter to you like flavor, ingenuity or even authenticity. Personally, I’ve had more fine dining experiences than the average person but I’d trade dozens of them for the meatloaf sandwich at my favorite Greek diner.
zhenghao1 5y ago
I was skeptical about fine dining. It was something my wife wanted to try but not so for me. I live in Singapore so one day we went to the famous Les Amis restaurant, a French dining experience. I've had French food before and wasn't very impressed. I recall being amazed with every single dish that was served. The explosion of flavors, the originality of each dish, the intricate plating. It was like being able to taste "art". Sure the service was great but that's not the highlight. The highlight is in the details. And I love how after you're done with everything, they give you a little something to take home to complete the experience. They gave us a little lemon sponge cake made fresh with a little card. It was definitely worth the $400 I paid for my wife and I. Sure, it's not something you eat everyday, but it's definitely you yearn for everyday. Since then I've been looking forward to anniversaries and birthdays; because that's a time I get to spend on fine dining. A word of caution though: Not every fine dining experience was a hit. I went to one at Raffles Hotel and that was totally unmemorable; even though it was highly rated.
mcv 5y ago
This is incredibly well-written. Just that first line made me fall in love with her witty style. And then that second line.

469 points by NaOH 5y ago

I'm pretty sure there’s a Michelin star food cart in Asia that is like $3/plate. Not every Michelin star restaurant is an expensive French experience.

mhh__ 5y ago
In Europe it probably is. My home town has a very cheap Michelin-starred restaurant by the standards of restaurants of that calibre but it's still fairly pricey.
mzi 5y ago
He has unfortunately lost his star: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/hawker-chan-singapore-michelin-star-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/hawker-chan-singapore...
Umofomia 5y ago
You're probably thinking of Tim Ho Wan in Hong Kong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ho_Wan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ho_Wan
- kenneth 5y ago
  Tim Ho Wan and Din Tai Fund in Hong Kong both lost their stars. There was a stall in Singapore that also lost its. Kam's Roast Goose in HK also used to have one, but I don't recall if it still does.

showerst 5y ago

This is cool! As someone who's into fine dining, a few thoughts/tips for people starting out: 1. Don't go into a michelin level restaurant expecting "well it's expensive so it should be what I normally eat but better", think of it as its own category of food, that happens to have a really high buy-in price. Lots more crazy flavors, presentation, exotic ingredients, etc. It's not that it has to be 'better' than the best $12 bbq joint you've ever been to, just different. 2. Many very high end restaurants have great lunch deals, which can really cut the price to try them.

regulation_d 5y ago
Point 1 is very similar in high end coffee. Sometimes very expensive coffee in the US is substantially better than what you get in the grocery store, but often it's just much different. It might taste like blueberries or strawberry candy or wine. Not necessary better, just weird, hopefully in a whimsical way.
- ethanbond 5y ago
  Coffee is definitely one of the items that I've found the lowest correlation between price and perceived quality (as a quasi-distinct measure than my own subjective enjoyment). Even among wines, things on the expensive end that I really don't personally like, I can at least convince myself that there's a reason it has the price that it is. Coffee: no discernible relationship.
  - asah 5y ago
    I used to think that about everything that was "better than Starbucks" and then I had fresh civet coffee from a legit place in HCM. It's... the sh*t!
  - regulation_d 5y ago
    I spend a fair amount of money on coffee, but I know what styles and roast levels I like, and I know roasters that do those things well. If you like weird varietals processed with some experimental anaerobic processing method and a light roast, Onyx and Black & White, for example, both do really well with those styles. And they aren't cheap, but I enjoy them. If you favor medium to dark roasts, then Dunkin Donuts brand coffee in the grocery is pretty darn good.
silisili 5y ago
These are really good points, and mirror my experience - though we are opposite - I'm definitely not into fine dining. I didn't get point 1 til years later, after more reading. I'd tried uber fancy restaurants a few times, and each time left disappointed and really almost feeling cheated. Odd flavors (to me), small portions, a lot of art on the plate. I never really judged it based on anything but the value and taste, and if you do that, you'll likely be disappointed as I was. I guess I realized I'm just a simple guy who likes common foods, but hey, we're all different.

david927 5y ago

There's food that's great and there's food that's art. If you're lucky enough to have experienced the latter, you'll know it.

gkoberger 5y ago

I'm so glad this was a positive story, and I'm so happy for the author! I went into it expecting this restaurant to be mocked, since articles like this are usually played as a joke. No, not everyone can afford to try a Michelin Star restaurant. A lot of Michelin restaurants suck. And you don't have to pay a ton for a good meal; some of the best food I've ever had has cost $10. However, food is right up there with music as something that connects people. A taste or smell can unlock a memory you thought you lost forever, or create new ones you'll never forget. There's a reason meals are so prominent in movies and literature. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a good relationship with food (in fact, for many, the connotations can be quite negative), and I'm so happy for this person that she loved it. When done right, nice restaurants are an experience. From start to finish, from the food to the drink to the decor to the people, it's closer to going to a Broadway play or art museum than it is a normal meal. For people who can afford it readily, the experience is almost lost. It can become a status symbol, where the Instagram story is more important than enjoying it. It was so charming to see this through the eyes of someone who had no pretentious goals going into it, and had a wonderful time.

pjmorris 5y ago
> A taste or smell can unlock a memory you thought you lost forever. Here for a related personal anecdote and a movie reference. On a conference trip to Chicago I managed to snag a reservation for a Michelin-starred restaurant (Alinea.) The first appetizer was an unusual-looking canapé sprayed with a white foam, featuring salmon and dill as key flavors. It took me back to my 10-year-old self sitting at my grandparent's Thanksgiving table which included shrimp with grandma-grown dill. The meal tab was pricy, the recall of a grand moment was something akin to priceless. The movie reference is 'Ratatouille,' where the antagonist restaurant critic has such a moment.
- leeter 5y ago
  I seem to recall Chef Achatz actually talking about food as an emotional experience given his own trials with cancer and actually losing his ability to taste for awhile. I can't find the interview (or it might have been Chef's table) but I'm pretty sure that informs the style of Alinea.

senkora 5y ago

If you live in a city that has it, then a good meal at a Michelin Star restaurant is a very worthwhile and achievable luxury. Go somewhere with a tasting menu (small plates). I’m happy that the author was able to experience it. In the United States, the Michelin guide awards stars in NYC, Chicago, DC, and California.

mhh__ 5y ago

Slightly OT: The websites that are used by these [name of place]Live sites are absolutely shit. They've bought up all the locals and put them under this banner. Slow, buggy, low information-density. This is how the BBC looked as early as I can vaguely remember it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/default.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/default.stm better in almost every way.

mellosouls 5y ago
Yes, Reach media is notorious for the crapness of it's UX experience. It's presumably designed that way intentionally, I mean, they must know. I have no idea of the thinking behind it but I hope the devs, testers and designers behind it hide that part of their experience on their CVs. I mean, the shame they must feel.
- kuboble 5y ago
  Well... I have second hand knowledge that developers and managers of www.programmzeitung.ch are satisfied with their good and modern website.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  They know. But I suspect there is so little money in local news now (partly because of the internet and partly because of the collapse of newspaper-driven local commerce, small ads, all that), that they do not care; they are in a toxic relationship with the only advertising that pays, and to step outside that and construct a local news model that would be sustainable and not abusive to its readers is the stuff of romance novels and Hallmark movies. With the Reach sites I am surprised by some of the design elements that could be improved even without touching the aggressively bad advertising design, though. The typical "where I live" selector could be so much better.
Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
Honestly, if you think Reach's Live sites are bad, you should see the Gannett/Newsquest ones (www.oxfordmail.co.uk is our nearest). They're a whole league worse.

_fat_santa 5y ago

When I was in Italy with my brother back in 2019, we mostly ate at cheap local spots to keep costs down. But towards the end of the trip, I said lets go get some amazing food, regardless of cost. We walked into this little Italian restaurant, ordered an expensive Merlot and a tomahawk steak to share. First the wine, "holy shit" was the exact words I used when I first tasted it, super smooth, to the point where you couldn't feel even the smallest bit of sting from the alcohol. Then the steak, the tenderest steak I've ever had. You cut of pieces of fat and as soon as you put it in your mouth the thing just melts away. In the end dinner set us back 250 euros, and much like this lady, I walked away going "that was worth every penny". Food like that isn't just about the experience, it's also the memory. That dinner I had is now almost 4 years ago but I still remember the wine and the slightly salted steak kisses fingers like an italian

tomrod 5y ago
This is how my mother-in-law prepares food. It is a genuine pleasure to eat at her table. The experience, love, and innovation she puts into her recipes are amazing.
- vmception 5y ago
  I've never had a parent or relative or in-law-equivalent that made me fond of their cooking. Given how much other people associate a good experience with the meals they had prepared by them, I feel like I would love that! But I mostly feel that everyone else is delusional. People really thought I was a picky eater, turns out it was just the local cuisine I guess.
riccardomc 5y ago
I am glad you had a nice experience and I mean no disrespect, but you went all the way to Italy to overpay a French wine and an American cut... I guess it means you'll have to go back! Next time go to Florence and order a Fiorentina Steak with a Montepulciano. That's going to be 50€ for two. And, as you said, the memory will last forever.
- 5y ago

julianlam 5y ago

The wife and I tried a Michelin Star restaurant, along with some restaurants in Toronto without the star, but with tasting menus. I can mirror the sentiment from this article. Tasting menus are absolutely phenomenal, and worth the money, though of course I couldn't afford to have that every single day. The idea of paying good money to a chef so they they can thoughtfully procure food instead of buying slabs of meat in bulk, and prepare it in such a way as to arouse the senses, is not really that wild of an idea (perhaps paying a multiple of a standard meal would be offensive to some, I get that.) My only criticism is that while the food is frickin' amazing, you only get one bite of it, per dish. Maybe two. Maybe that's part of the appeal.

jonny_eh 5y ago
> you only get one bite of it, per dish I suppose that gets you to savour it?
- vmception 5y ago
  At the famous El Bulli, there was speculation and accusation that they were using toxins and poisons. Vigorously denied of course, but perhaps the small sizes allowed for this level of discretion. When I read in this article that the author was for sure they weren't using magic mushrooms or some other kind that would cause a more immediate effect, I was thinking “for suuuuure?” I’ll allow it
- munificent 5y ago
  "gets you to" has a negative connotation. I think a better way to say it is that it helps you appreciate the large number of courses without getting stuffed or having your senses exhausted. Imagine going to a concert where the band says they are going to play their entire catalog front to back. If you're about to listen to 50 songs, you probably don't want them to also play the extended versions of each one at full blast if you have any hopes of making it through the show.
Mikeb85 5y ago
> My only criticism is that while the food is frickin' amazing, you only get one bite of it, per dish. Maybe two. Maybe that's part of the appeal. I mean, there's a limit to how much you can eat before you start feeling bloated and over-full. More food per course = less courses. Lots of Michelin starred restaurants in Europe offer tasting menus + a la carte menu (ie. menu where you can choose items) with larger portions. In North America though, most high-end restaurants do one or the other.

vmception 5y ago

> Suddenly, they were not tiny little plates of food for big prices. They were experiences, knowledge and expertise, presented in such a way that I could have flown if I wasn't anchored to the restaurant floor by a crisp table topped with stacks of cutlery. Love this! Her synopsis could have easily gone the other way at “tiny plates of food at big prices”. The experiences and attention to detail are what I like most about Michelin starred places. Especially how a place so fancy can have servers that treat you so personably, which is her experience as well. “Lick the plate! I’ll cover for you!” I’ve been to many places with inferior levels of validation that were much more pretentious, like the Italian places all over America where nothing is in English but you have to pretend you’re cultured enough to just know what everything is - there’s more English on menus in actual Italy! Even in the middle of nowhere! The last thing is how the servers know when to be present without hovering or interrupting too often or too infrequently. Some places must have secret passages just for the wait staff and servers.

ketzo 5y ago
The servers at these kinds of places really are career professionals, and it shows. Turns out when you really care about something and do it for a long time under the tutelage of experts, you can get literally 10 or 100 times better at, say, serving someone water without being noticed. They are also, in my experience, just as excited as you are. These people love their work, or they wouldn't be there; they get so happy when people love the food they're serving, and they're always ready to gush with you about how good it is. Very fun interactions.
- thaway2839 5y ago
  Working at a high quality fine dining restaurant in any capacity is hard work. I don't think it's possible to do it unless you actually enjoy it.
vidarh 5y ago
> The last thing is how the servers know when to be present without hovering or interrupting too often or too infrequently. Exactly. You can often tell the step up from good to great by whether the servers are intentionally making a show of their presence vs. when you don't notice them other than when you want to. At one place which should have known better my date and I ended up playing a game of "try to touch the wine bottle before the sommelier would make it to the table" as they insisted on making an annoying show of serving that at first was disruptive rather than helpful, and so we turned to passive aggressive rebellion... But that was funny once - it made me reluctant to go there on dates again. Conversely at some of the best places I've eaten the serving staff are like ninjas and you hardly even notice your napkin is dirty before it has magically been replaced. (I've had memorable interactions with servers who knew when to be noticed, so it's not about never being heard or seen, but about understanding when it adds to the experience and when it would interrupt)

rconti 5y ago

I don't do fine dining either, but what I've noticed at high end places is, much like the author noticed, you get more for your money than you expect, not less. It's true they don't like to be so crass as to talk about money, but other than the obvious (if you want another drink, it'll cost ya), things offered to you are often without charge. Little tastes of this, more of that. The prices on the menu are high, but it seems that once you've swallowed that, when you receive the bill, it's lower than you expect.

svachalek 5y ago
I grew up without exposure to much in the way of luxuries, and as an adult they still feel wasteful. But I've learned this is true of a lot of luxury goods and experiences, part of the high price is all the little extras you weren't even expecting because you're used to what you get at the bare-bones price level. One notable exception is high end hotels, at least in the US, especially in the pandemic, where the extra cost mostly just seems to be an invitation to get nickeled and dimed on every little thing you do from parking to wifi. It's the 2 and 3 star hotels that throw freebies and conveniences at you.
- staindk 5y ago
  I think similar to your counter-example are places/things (restaurants/products) that pretend to be fancy and through that pretense give you a worse product than if they had just cut the crap and served you what they could. I guess it's the tourist trap kind of place generally. They may be 80% of the way there in many ways, but the other 20% consists of so many glaring issues that it ruins the whole experience.

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supernova87a 5y ago

Good story. One thing to remember or value when you go to these places is that you're not largely paying for the food. You're paying for 4-5x the people per diner than any normal restaurant -- you're paying for their time to pore over the ingredients more carefully than you would yourself, their time to learn about and explain it to you, their time to come up with amusing and interesting ways to prepare it, their time to wait on you like a sultan and never fail to bore your palate. Not saying that it's worth it for everyone or that it's even completely justified as they think it is (every artist thinks that any excessive amount they spend on some esoterica is "worth it"), but that's really where your $ are going. Maybe that's the way to think about it -- you're paying for art. And being one of the few diners who the cost of paying for people's livelihoods is spread over (especially if those people have student loans to pay for) -- that is expensive.

jaywalk 5y ago

I haven't had the pleasure of eating at a Michelin star restaurant (yet, I fully intend to at some point) but I have eaten at places that could probably get at least one star if they were located in a city where Michelin gave them out. It is truly an unforgettable experience from start to finish. It's obvious that so much thought and care goes into everything that you can't even really compare it to a regular "nice" restaurant. It's an entirely different class of dining, and this article conveyed it perfectly. Made me want to prioritize getting to an actual Michelin star restaurant.

davio 5y ago

Reminds me of this dystopian Michelin star restaurant experience: https://everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-eat-at-the-worst-michelin-starred-restaurant-ever/ https://everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-e...

martopix 5y ago
This person clearly has never been to a Michelin-level restaurant before. > Very, very expensive theater. Well yes, it's also theatre. It's a form of art. The dishes were tiny? You chose the 27-course tasting menu. What did he expect, 27 large portions of lasagne? Most of the article seems to be just about how everything was only small mouthfuls, but this is perfectly normal. Perhaps the same restaurant has an a la carte menu, or a 6-course tasting. That would be different. Here [1] is a video of people eating there, and they are quite satisfied. PS: of course you can eat rancid things. If you're not willing to try weird stuff you just choose another restaurant. Not a michelin-starred one that is particularly famous for quirky stuff, like Bros. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvLiQZhg3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvLiQZhg3Y
- jjulius 5y ago
  I've dined at quite a few Michelin-level restaurants and disagree with your take on the piece. Yes, this sort of dining is more akin theatre, and art, and an educational experience. I agree with you that, generally, people shouldn't be surprised at the portion sizes when it's a 27-course meal. That said, there are many notable points that that review makes, much of which should warrant, IMO, a re-examination of whether or not they actually deserve a Michelin star. Let's start with a look at their post-script at the end of the article, since it's about portion-sizing: >Note: the TripAdvisor reviews show a lot of elaborate courses, and these were all way, way more food than anything we ate. I cannot express to you how little we were fed, and I’m not a particularly big eater. Allergy and dietary restrictions were largely ignored. >The servers will not explain to you what the hell is going on. >When a member of our party stood up during the lengthy stretch between courses to go have a cigarette outside, and was scolded to sit down. >When one member of our party was served nothing for three consecutive courses, because they couldn’t figure out how to accommodate her food allergies. >When Rand was served food he was allergic to, repeatedly, because they didn’t care enough to accommodate his. I've never seen a Michelin-level restaurant just flat-out not serve a guest a course (in this case multiple - three!) because of their dietary restrictions, nor have I seen a Michelin-level restaurant "forget" about said restriction. >When a server reprimanded me for eating. These reconstituted orange slices (one per person) were a course. I asked if I could eat the real orange that had been served alongside it (we’d all gotten one, and I, at this point, was extremely hungry). “Yes,” the server said, annoyed. “But you aren’t really supposed to.” He let me have two segments and then whisked the fruit away. So they served edible food and then took it away before people were finished eating? >That’s the problem with a tasting menu. With so many courses, you just assume things are going to turn around. Every dish is a chance for redemption. Maybe this meal was like Nic Cage’s career – you have to wait a really long time for the good stuff, but there is good stuff. Clearly the servers were not communicating the progress of the meal to the guests: >“Would you like red or white?” the server asked. >“What are we having for the main?” she inquired. >His face blanched. >“The… main, madame? Um… we’re about to move on to dessert.” Or this description-less explanation of a dish from a server: >“We’ve infused these droplets with meat molecules,” the server explained, and left. >... and a dish called “frozen air” which literally melted before you could eat it... >P.S. – The next day, one of the staff tried contacting the only single female member of our party via Instagram messages. “Hey, I served you last night!” I mean, there's art [nods head], and then there's art [shakes head]. If you take the time to read the article, it's apparent that these guests have dined at tasting-menu establishments before, perhaps even Michelin-level spots. But to be fair to them, Lecce absolutely does seem like it's trying entirely too damned hard to be over the top in a way that is detrimental to itself.

hirundo 5y ago

It's been two years since I've eaten at a restaurant, and about five years before that. When I do go the food is quite memorable, compared to home cooking. If you want to make restaurant visits special just make them rare. Michelin restaurants are for people further down that particular hedonistic treadmill than me.

brent_noorda 5y ago

Recently tried the new Fiesta Veggie Burrito at Taco Bell. Two dollars. Exquisite.

stretchpants 5y ago
hilarious!!!!!

jefc1111 5y ago

Great article! Brought back a memory I haven't accessed for a long time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IRqqp8vHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IRqqp8vHw

raspyberr 5y ago

I tried a Michelin star restaurant once and, pardon the pun, it left a really sour taste in my mouth. We were warned by friends who had been there before to eat a little something before going. We did and even so we were still starving throughout and after. It's hard to concentrate on delicate flavours and nuances when you're really hungry and it's 20 minutes between each spoonful of food for 4 hours. There were lots of other criticisms but that was the biggest one. I felt thoroughly dissastisfied by the end.

youarethebest 5y ago
I've read a lot of reviews like that in Tripadvisor. I don't think you go there to feel "full". What's your obesity range atm?

samgranieri 5y ago

I've been to (as best I can remember) three Michelin starred restaurants in my life: Sierra Mar in Big Sur, California, Il Bucco in Sorrento, Italy (for my honeymoon), and Schwa in my hometown of Chicago. My wife and I had a lovely time at each place.

tptacek 5y ago
Schwa is very unlike a typical Michelin place; I'm surprised it's starred. My understanding is that Michelin heavily weights service and ambience, neither of which are, uh, specialties of Schwa; it's the most downmarket tasting menu place I've ever been to (that's not to take anything away from it; I liked Schwa more than I liked Alinea).

nkrisc 5y ago

A three star restaurant really is something different. It’s not just the experience, the quality and consistency is just something that’s hard to find elsewhere. The best cup of black coffee I’ve ever had was at a three star restaurant. It was just a simple cup of coffee but it was just made completely perfectly. Great beans I’m sure, a good roast, brewed exactly the right way. You can of course get that outside of a Michelin starred restaurant easily, but the point is in a three star restaurant everything is perfect, even the cup of coffee you have after dinner. They didn’t teen me where the beans were from or who roasted it, it was pedestrian for them.

jamespwilliams 5y ago

Michelin also gives out an award for 'good quality, good value restaurants', called the Bib Gourmand, which is worth looking into. Bib Gourmand restaurants are often still a bit more expensive than the average restaurant in a place, but are generally of very very good quality and value for money.

christkv 5y ago
I second this one, all my visits to Bib Gourmand rated restaurants have been great.

schmichael 5y ago

One of my first fine dining experiences was similar. A date for my wife and I paid for by my employer after a weekend ruined by an outage. I had steak tartare (fixed!) for the first time. I had cognac (outside of cheap cognac in a mixed drink) for the first time. A family at a nearby table had sweaters tied around their shoulders and were literally discussing their yacht club. As someone who grew up with public school teachers for parents and corn fields surrounding my house, it was transcendental. The staff was just as lovely as the food, and it's easily the best gift I've ever gotten from an employer.

rory 5y ago
Apologies for being an internet corrector, but it's actually "tartare," from the old French belief (or perhaps joke) that the Golden Horde Tatars didn't have time to cook their meat when on the move. So they just softened it under their saddles as they rode, then ate it raw. Kind of funny that such a now-fancy food is supposed to taste as if you ate it from under a nomad's butt.
- brilee 5y ago
  This article suggests this etymology is made up... https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/06/dining/the-raw-truth-dont-blame-the-mongols-or-their-horses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/06/dining/the-raw-truth-dont...
  - rory 5y ago
    Oh. Well it's a good urban legend anyway.

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oliv__ 5y ago

zwaps 5y ago

I went to a Michelin-starred vegan restaurant in Berlin (on the wall was a mural spelling the F-word and you had to walk through a warehouse to "find" the place) and it was really good. The wine was also very good. I wasn't "crying" but it sure was the best meal I ever had from a mere taste standpoint. Whether it's worth it depends entirely on how much money you have. If you are FAANG Engineer rich, you could probably eat there every day if you'd wanted to. In that case, yeah it's worth it. If you earn the median salary in the EU, then nah.

BashiBazouk 5y ago

I've eaten at three Michelin Stared restaurants in the bay area. Gary Danko, CPQR and Manresa. All were interesting experiences. Gary Danko was by far my favorite. The other two felt like it was all about he ego of the chef. Gary Danko was all about my enjoyment of the meal. They have three courses separated in sections, but you can mix and match. If you want a taste of filet mignon as an appetizer and a huge plate of escargot for your main, that's fine with them. Their wait staff is by far the most elite I have ever experienced. No one asking you if you need anything and not a waiter to be found, unless you need something then they magically appeared just as the thought was percolating into consciousness. Amazing. CPQR was weird. We did three courses from the menu. Appetizer was the best, but the most memorable was the second course, though not for the taste. I order a pasta dish and before they serve they place a steak knife next to me. A steak knife, what the hell did I order? The dish comes and looking at it I'm still wondering what exactly I ordered... Manresa was also a unique experience. First all the dishes were absolutely, amazing. One person in our party did not like fish except for scallops, which they accommodated. We proceed to have five fish based dishes in a row. Even though all five were fantastic, at the end my mouth felt like a tide pool, and having grown up on the beaches of Santa Cruz, I know that taste/feeling well. On the third fish dish, our friend got his scallops and boy did they look good. Then on the fifth and last fish dish he was served squab. The rest of us looked longingly at that bird, our collective mouths watering. He was lucky to leave that table alive... I think the food was more inventive and more perfectly cooked at CPQR and Manresa but it's Gary Danko I would like to go back to.

tpmx 5y ago
I really like how this menu is presented: http://garydanko.com/wp-content/uploads/garydanko/main-menu-2.24.22.pdf http://garydanko.com/wp-content/uploads/garydanko/main-menu-... A high but suitable amount of details, common English words being used, etc. I really hate having to google 10-15 terms when reading a menu because the chef felt the need to use non-English terms (often French) or extremely uncommon English terms.
mercutio2 5y ago
This is hilarious to me, because Gary Danko is the only Michelin starred restaurant my wife and I immediately said "never going back there" as we left, and laugh about how bad it was every time we drive past. The food was mundane, poorly prepared, un-special in about every way. I could not fathom, from our night there, how it maintains its Michelin star. I assume by CPQR you mean SPQR? I only dined their before they got their Michelin star, I thought it was OK at the time, but not as good as an average high quality SF restaurant.

alkonaut 5y ago

Highly recommend doing this occasionally. Like so many other things, quantity can be exchanged for quantity. Go to a 5x more expensive restaurant and skip 4 meals at cheaper restaurants. Restaurants that are expensive-ish but not sublime or memorable experiences can be skipped. Eat cheaply or really expensively. Skip “quite expensive but not fantastic” restaurants. Tasting menus at one star restaurants is where the value is.

MajorBee 5y ago

Great article! I particularly appreciated the author's positive description of a good experience in a world where cynical takes are more dominant. Standout line for me from the article: > When my bouche was adequately amused,

motohagiography 5y ago

For anyone intimidated by fine dining, I'd say approach it by recognizing that the people involved are really excited about providing a memorable experience for you, and that they've worked years at perfecting the whole performance of it, and making you feel comfortable and welcome (with adult boundaries) is their vocation. For a lot of professional waiters and cooks, it's like performing music, so be interested and curious and let yourself be delighted. It can also be a bit overwhelming, so even though you have probably eaten in restaurants before, treat fine dining like a new experience, as they've tried to make it one. Professional staff can handle just about anything, and there's not much they haven't seen. The secret I think is to know before hand who is paying, have a sense of the budget from online menus before ordering so you don't have to focus on the prices, respect the personal boundaries of the servers, and if it's your first time, consider that you'd like to be welcome back. I don't think any of them have a gong they smash whenever they see someone using their dinner fork for the salad, and some decorative table settings actually break with convention and can be a bit mystifying, so if you don't know what's what, ask. They can accomodate most things, but make dietary restrictions known during the reservation, as they'll usually prep for them. They're about providing a unique experience, so if your needs aren't medical, consider whether you're open to a new experience before spending a lot on one. Fine dining restaurants employ dozens of people with specialized skills, and provide livings that support families, so go, get treated like royalty for a bit, and use it as a waypoint for how well you can be treated and how good something as simple as food can be, then use the expereince to enrich your life.

mprovost 5y ago
Yes I could really feel the social anxiety coming through in the article. One thing that someone told me that really helped is that everyone is trying to help you by telling you what you should do. So if they ask to take your coat, say yes. They're telling you that it's not appropriate to keep it on the back of your chair. If they ask you if you want to wait at the bar, say yes. Basically, just keep saying yes. At this kind of place they aren't out to get you by sneaking in an extra charge for something (I could also feel her concern there). If it does involve money, like choosing a wine, you can also just ask for some advice. "What would you recommend around £30?" The staff aren't going to judge you - or if they are they'll have a whole new round of folk to judge tomorrow and won't remember your face.

hardwaregeek 5y ago

I love how the author came in with an open mind and let herself be taken away by the experience. It's rare that you see an article that's just about enjoying the experience and not scrutinizing it. I've been to a few Michelin starred restaurants. For me, it's surprisingly inconsistent. I can have a meal that I absolutely adore (L'Astrance) and a meal that's merely decent (Pujol). That said, I try to enter each experience with an open mind. There's no cause for cynicism at the dinner table.

gommm 5y ago
I'm curious, for Pujol, did you have the tasting menu or the omakase tacos? I'm asking because the first time I went, I had the tasting menu and was very disappointed, thought it was vastly overpriced for what it was.. I wasn't planning to return but had to (because I was supposed to eat there with a client of mine) and the second time, I had the omakase tacos and absolutely adored it. So, now I'm curious if you might have had the same experience I had with the first meal.
- hardwaregeek 5y ago
  Yeah I did. I suspect you're right. It's a shame that they removed the tacos from the tasting menu. Perhaps I'll give it another shot when I'm in Mexico City again!
  - snug 5y ago
    Omakase Tacos at the bar! They give you a drink with every taco, and usually someone won't like a drink and they'll make a special one, ask them curiously what that drink was and they will make you one. All drinks are included on the tasting menu!

sva_ 5y ago

I always had a low opinion on these high-end restaurants, but had my girlfriend convince me to try a Michelin stared restaurant. I have to say that my opinion has completely changed, and I've tried a few since. One Japanese one in particular, was the best food I've ever tasted. I didn't think such an experience was possible - it was way out of scope of things imaginable for me. I've since been thinking, we spend a lot of money for certain experiences in life, but paying such amounts for a meal is for most people ridiculous. Our sense of taste is a big factor that can perceive a staggering amount of combinations, so I think it is justifiable to spend a bit more money to go on a kind of culinary adventure from time to time.

dunham 5y ago
I enjoy cooking. I go to restaurants like that to experience new food and maybe take away a few ideas. A Meal at a three star restaurant is very expensive, but it's an experience I've enjoyed. (I've also enjoyed meals at places completely off of Michelin's radar. For me, stuff like tapas / small plates is nice because I can try different things without filling up.) Some people couldn't imagine spending that kind of money for a meal. I couldn't imagine spending that kind of money to be at the superbowl. I suspect everybody has their own thing that is worth it to them.
- sva_ 5y ago
  > I suspect everybody has their own thing that is worth it to them. That's a great thing about people, and a reminder that one should be humble and not judge people for how they're into some (perhaps niche) interests. > I enjoy cooking. I go to restaurants like that to experience new food and maybe take away a few ideas. It's a little counter-intuitive, I think, because one might assume that after having had some really great food, everything else will be bland. But it isn't so, as you say. It is an enriching experience contributing to one's ability to appreciate, and perhaps even make more things.

munificent 5y ago

Some of my favorite experiences were excellent meals. I hate the idea that fine dining is only for the immoral rich who are happy to conspicuously consume their way through an overpriced meal. A great meal can be as eminently rewarding as any great sensory experience and equally worth the price. If you don't see anything wrong with buying a hotel room to hear a concert from a favorite band in a distant city, or buying a plane ticket to fly somewhere with an incredible view, then there's equally nothing wrong with every now and then splurging on an amazing meal.

nemo44x 5y ago

This article made my eyes well up a bit. I love food and appreciate cooking and love to see people discover cooking at this level. The author’s reaction to it all, noticing the little details, is just beautiful. I also miss going to these types of restaurants and it makes me a bit sentimental. But soon it will all return, I hope.

iamben 5y ago

Quick story - I used to talk to a guy that worked in my building quite a lot about the food we ate. He told me that growing up he absolutely hated food. When he went to university his housemates decided to go to a Michelin starred restaurant and invited him. After a lot of turning them down (because "what's the point, food is grossly overpriced, I don't care for it," etc etc), he finally agreed. He said "coming home that night I realised my mother was a terrible, terrible, terrible cook." From then on it was like a whole new world opened up to him... I always loved that. A) it's funny how our past experiences can completely (and sometimes incorrectly) shape our perceptions of the now. B) food can be such a wonderful thing - the smallest thing can make you so absolutely happy. And when someone just nails it (simple or not!), it really is quite the experience.

throwewey 5y ago
I have the exact opposite story: I can't really eat anywhere because my dad was an astonishing cook growing up. I've tried various places with varying amounts of stars, and nothing has come close to what my father used to cook. On top of that, I'm also a terrible cook so eating has become a chore, something that I have to do to survive.
- iamben 5y ago
  Gah! Disaster! Was he a professional, or just a very good hobbyist? My baseline is somewhat in the middle. Mum was a good cook, she did everything _well_. There's always room for excellence and new(?) flavours, but I know what isn't good.
jjulius 5y ago
I was kind of similar to this person. My dad worked at buffets and within the restaurant industry, but he always managed them - never cooked at them (does one actually ever cook at a buffet?). He prided himself on being the cook of the family but he only really excels at a couple of dishes. My mom's a decent enough cook, but just decent enough. Steaks were cooked well, and paired with ketchup. So, I grew up picky as hell. I'm 34, and I can still remember my third date with my wife when we were both 21. I ordered a turkey pesto sandwich and said, "with no vegetables". My then-barely-GF blurted out, "NO VEGETABLES!?" without even thinking about it, which sorta shamed me but not in a way, obviously, that put me off from seeing her again, lol. Turns out her dad loves to cook, and her entire family loves going out to eat. My restaurant experiences were, by and large, limited to Applebee's and other crappy chain restaurants up to that point in my life. So, I started giving things chances; I started branching out culturally while still trying to find meat-focused dishes within that cuisine. Eventually, we started eating at nicer restaurants. Going back to what I said about steaks above, I made it to my mid-20's absolutely hating steak. I thought people were idiots for loving it so much. I went to a steakhouse (Kevin Rathbun Steak in ATL) for my SIL's birthday one year and avoided the steak because of those misgivings. I opted for the lamb, and chose "rare" when asked how I wanted it cooked because I figured I'd never had anything rare and I may as well try it. I immediately fell in love, and ended up trying a rare steak a few months later. Now, I'm all about that 30+-day dry-aged, incredibly well-marbled ribeye! I also forced myself to stop picking everything off. Don't like something because of it's texture? Try a smaller piece of it and see if you like the taste and how that taste pairs with the rest of the dish. Slowly, things fell into place for me and I began to appreciate more. Then, we moved to the Bay Area and it's gigantic concentration of Michelin-level restaurants. My first Michelin joint had a tasting menu, and I told myself that the food at Michelin restaurants is definitely going to be good. Whatever is on that plate is going to highlight what makes that ingredient so good, why people like it, etc.. So my mantra was, "just eat it". Don't normally like it? Don't care, because if I'm ever going to have it at it's best, now is the time to see what the fuss is all about. Holy shit did my world change. At this point, I'll eat anything. Texture is where I still struggle just a bit, but I'm keenly aware of what I do and don't react to in certain ways. So these foods can't be the focus of a dish, but I'll never shy away from eating them if their purpose of the dish is more 'complimentary', for lack of a better word. Taking this approach has allowed me to teach myself to appreciate the flavor, which then prompts me to eat it again, which gets me used to the texture, and ultimately gets me towards not being bothered so much by it. All that rambling is to say - YES, I completely understand where your friend is coming from and I have thoroughly enjoyed having a similar experience.

notjustanymike 5y ago

Michelin starred restaurants place a lot of emphasis on ensuring YOU enjoy your meal. Professional service does not judge, and is not snooty the way movies depict. I just ate at SAGA in NYC in January; the servers were amazingly knowledgeable, wonderfully approachable, and ours wore a jumpsuit and sneakers. Not snooty, but ask about the wine and they'll happily share a wealth of information about the region it's from. If you leave a restaurant feeling worse because of a servers behavior then it's their fault, not yours.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
I know couple of chefs at high end restaurants and they are good friends. They are also normal people and I don't think they would work at places that treat less fortunate people (say can only do something like this once a year, if ever) without respect. As long as you treat the waitstaff well and aren't loud and overbearing they love to have you in and enjoy the fine cooking. Just don't bring three screaming toddlers and leave $5 tip and you'll be fine if anyone is curious but hasn't gone on a food adventure. Myself I came from a poor upbringing and was pretty nervous about my first few high end restaurants as a 20 something with "new money".

j7ake 5y ago

I actually find many high end restaurants to be worth the money. It averages about 150 per person, but often there can be as many as 10 courses. If one thought about how much each individual course cost, about 10 bucks on average, it is already a good deal (some dishes are caviar, foie gras, lobster…). Add to that you’re sitting there spending a nice 3 hours with someone special and enjoying a story told through the taste buds. Most of the times it is worth the money.

hangonhn 5y ago

My wife and I went to a Michelin star restaurant to celebrate our engagement. That the food was good was expected but the whole experience was just amazing. I think service and attention to detail and caring about the customer really makes the whole experience just so different. When they found out that we just got engaged, they printed out a new menu with all the dishes but also with "Congratulations" at the top. My fiancee/wife ordered a wine pairing but I skipped it because I'm a total lightweight and I was the driver. My wife would hand me her glass just to try a sip. When they noticed that they just brought out another glass for me each time they pour her from a new bottle and would pour me a small sip as well. We didn't have to ask and they didn't try to charge us for another wine pairing. The whole experience was just delightful. Highly recommend Single Thread in Healdsburg if you do decide to go to one. Yes I did pick it partly because of the name and I'm a software engineer.

kevinventullo 5y ago

If you’re in the Boston area, I recommend Tasting Counter in Somerville. No Michelin star as far as I’m aware, but a similar experience in that there are several small plates with flavors and textures I’ve not had elsewhere.

Mikeb85 5y ago

Fine dining is more of an 'experience' than a meal. It's like going to the theatre or watching an orchestra perform. You're not paying for the food you receive per se, you're paying for the room, all the staff buzzing around to provide you with the experience, all the cooks required to give you 10 courses of something interesting and well-made, etc... It's a cultural experience. And the culture you're experiencing ranges from very old cuisine to very new cuisine, local culture to something very foreign, etc... Also for anyone who thinks they're not 'fancy' enough to enjoy it, consider that cooks, chefs and servers are pretty much the definition of 'working class'. And the food is (usually anyway) delicious and interesting.

flossmaster 5y ago

Even at such top-tier restaurants, you probably still need to bring your own dental floss.

vmception 5y ago

> So when the Michelin guide came out last week, and Birmingham kept hold of its five stars Help me out with something Although Michelin Stars only go to 3 stars The Michelin guide for an area (which includes non-Michelin starred restaurants) goes to 5 stars? Or does she mean that the city of Birmingham has a total of 5 Michelin stars in the whole city, of which the restaurant she went to had procured 2 of those stars, leaving 3 stars to be split between one or two other restuarants.

nerdawson 5y ago
In the article, they describe it as being close to two stars. There are 5 restaurants in Birmingham with a Michelin star.

temp83353 5y ago

gorbachev 5y ago

Such a wonderful article! I haven't dined in Michelin star restaurants, but a handful of very, very good ones for special occasions with my wife. The experience has been exactly as the the writer of that article had, every time. Great food is magical.

JasonFruit 5y ago

This person writes with the intention of sounding "common as muck", but their intellect and sensitivity comes through clearly. It was really a good read.

globular-toast 5y ago

Last time I dined at a Michélin star restaurant it was about £100 for two all in. About 5 courses if I remember correctly. That was less than ten years ago. Is £150 for one really the going rate now?

anonymousDan 5y ago

The michelin guide is a fantastic free online resource. The recommendations are so much more reliable than something like TripAdvisor. The key thing to understand though is that you are not just limited to going to 1-3 star Michelin restaurants (which are usually fantastic but often expensive). Instead if you are on a bit more of a budget look for the 'Bib Gourmand' rated restaurants. In my experience these usually provide fantastic value for money. Below that they also have categories such as the Michelin 'Plate', but these tend to be a bit more variable.

bob66 5y ago

walnutclosefarm 5y ago

For years I spent a week every month or month and a half in Paris. Dined at dozens of different establishments, ranging from street vendors to starred restaurants. The best food and experience were in a not-ranked-by-anyone-anywhere Lebanese place in the Levantine quarter, and a hole-in-the-wall that served SW France provincial fare. Neither was particularly expensive. Similarly, the best Chinese food by far that I've ever had was when I convinced a colleague in Shanghai (who was a native of Szechuan) to take me to the Szechuanese place he'd choose, out of all he knew about Shanghai. Of course that cost a pittance, in US dollars, as back in those days everything in Shanghai did. The food was unbelievable. Ten times better than the starred menus I'd had in Paris and the Cote d'Azur in France. Best sushi meal I've had, far and away, was in a place in near the old Tsukiji market in Tokyo. Seating for maybe 12 in the whole place, but plate after plate of single or double bites. But that one wasn't cheap - the author's 150 British pound wouldn't have covered the bill even a decade and a half ago when I ate there.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

This was well written. I appreciate the “commonness” of her article :) . My less literate experiences have been similar, as someone who scoffs at paying more than $10 for a meal. It's really nice to treat yourself (and your SO) to a really posh dinner occasionally, maybe a few times a year, and it's usually not as hard as people figure, although she lucked out at only 2 days wait (without being a millionaire pulling strings).

mbf1 5y ago

My wife booked us a river cruise on the Napo river for my birthday - one of the many tributaries of the Amazon river in Ecuador. The chef on the boat had the most amazing dishes every day / night for a week. I would believe he was a Michelin star chef by the amazing varieties of perfection that came out of the kitchen.

vegancap 5y ago

I lived in Lichfield for eight years, there's some really decent restaurants there for sure. Not that I ever went! Surprised to see a Birmingham Mail article, front-page HN :D

bryanmgreen 5y ago

My takeaway from great meals that is restaurants are snow globes. You may not remember the food, but you'll always have the memory and all the events and experiences that led up to that time. Years later you can shake that mental snow globe and get a happy nostalgia trip. That's worth the money to me.

thamer 5y ago

If you drink alcohol and have the option to get the wine pairing in a Michelin star restaurant, I'd highly recommend it. They are usually offered only with a prix-fixe menu where all the courses are pre-selected. With (say) 7 dishes you'd have 5-7 small glasses of wine, each selected from the restaurant's cellar by a sommelier who knows what would go perfectly with each dish. This is a much better option than getting your own drink or a bottle to share with the table, and the experience of pairing amazing food with just the right drink is on another level.

Yen 5y ago
If you don't drink alcohol - don't be afraid to ask for a non-alcoholic pairing! Worst they can say is "no can do". The one time I asked, it turned out that our server was ~30 years sober himself, and asked their bartender what they could do. What they could do was, a variety of alcohol-substitute drinks, mixes of spices that didn't replace wine, but achieved the same culinary role, and custom dry cocktails. Drinks that, given the description, I never would have ordered. Drinks that, by themselves, didn't do what I thought a beverage did. It was amazing.

sabman83 5y ago

That's why I love Vegas. Amazing food, amazing experience easily accessible to all.

subpixel 5y ago

While I applaud the positivity here and relish it, when meals like this are no longer highly unusual to you they can also cease to be highly rewarding. The key to repeated pleasure in this arena is to not fetishize luxury or cost, but rather to focus on the things that matter to you like flavor, ingenuity or even authenticity. Personally, I’ve had more fine dining experiences than the average person but I’d trade dozens of them for the meatloaf sandwich at my favorite Greek diner.

zhenghao1 5y ago

I was skeptical about fine dining. It was something my wife wanted to try but not so for me. I live in Singapore so one day we went to the famous Les Amis restaurant, a French dining experience. I've had French food before and wasn't very impressed. I recall being amazed with every single dish that was served. The explosion of flavors, the originality of each dish, the intricate plating. It was like being able to taste "art". Sure the service was great but that's not the highlight. The highlight is in the details. And I love how after you're done with everything, they give you a little something to take home to complete the experience. They gave us a little lemon sponge cake made fresh with a little card. It was definitely worth the $400 I paid for my wife and I. Sure, it's not something you eat everyday, but it's definitely you yearn for everyday. Since then I've been looking forward to anniversaries and birthdays; because that's a time I get to spend on fine dining. A word of caution though: Not every fine dining experience was a hit. I went to one at Raffles Hotel and that was totally unmemorable; even though it was highly rated.

mcv 5y ago

This is incredibly well-written. Just that first line made me fall in love with her witty style. And then that second line.