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I live in Germany and this to me sounds like a bad joke... In the last years: - Harder laws to build renewable energy source - windmills that create electri

by lampe3 5y ago

I live in Germany and this to me sounds like a bad joke... In the last years: - Harder laws to build renewable energy source - windmills that create electricity are banned and protested against in villages. - solar parks are not build because they look bad - EEG-Umlage which should be a tax to create more renewable sources will be terminated this year - RWE is destroying villages to mine coal - north stream 2 needed a war to not be finished Hope this explains why it sounds like a joke

VaxWithSex 5y ago
[flagged]
- sabjut 5y ago
  This and the widespread tradition of german NIMBYism do that to your power infrastructure.
sarsway 5y ago
- dumping 150 bil into war machines in a knee-jerk reaction, subsidizing a useless polluting industry (but we just print the money so no worries)
- dageshi 5y ago
  If Germany had funded it's military in the way a nato country should (2% of gdp per year) it would not now suddenly have to play catch up.
  - sarsway 5y ago
    It should be 0%. Catch up to what - for what? So we can go do some drone bombing in Africa like a proper western nation? Is that the plan? I guess it's easier to give the guys with the big guns what the want, instead of actually staying true to the values of demilitarizatizing the planet.
    - hpkuarg 5y ago
      It should be 0%? If men were angels, I guess. How do you propose that we demilitarize the planet, without a big stick to whack down the bad players that will inevitably arise?
    - merb 5y ago
      if you tell russians to take down their weapons, their will be no war. if you tell ukrains to take down their weapons, they will loose their country. it's not as easy as you wish, besides that I would prefer like you would describe, unfortunatly as long as there are borders/humans/whatever there will always be conflicts.
- dahdum 5y ago
  > subsidizing a useless polluting industry I don't see how you can claim defense is a useless industry while the world is watching a sovereign nation defend itself against an invading army.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    A lot of people are crazy enough to think that if we get rid of the military no one will take a vantage of the situation.
- adventured 5y ago
  The NATO alliance - and EU - is going to need a lot of hardware and technology to stop Russia if it's going to arm-up and empire-up, if it plans to take Ukraine with the help of Belarus and then potentially move on to other targets after that (Baltics, Moldova, Poland, Sweden, Finland, whichever). Russia has clearly taken over Belarus here, this is the USSR beginning to march with multiple armies again. If Putin redirects his nation into a persistent war footing, and redirects his nation's resources into war mode (shifting to mass killing the opposition outright as in the old days, Stalinification), then for a stretch of time that will be a very dangerous, very potent effect and will enable Russia to push outward militarily in a way they otherwise wouldn't be able to (and yes it'll run out of fuel eventually, as it's a rapid depletion move, but for N years it'll be a very potent adversary). $150 billion might not be enough, unless Germany plans to play no role in defending the eastern flank of NATO as Russia marches. They have been badly underfunded for decades, $150b is a down payment on catching up. Putin's Russia is going to be in an economic and political swamp for a long time for this, it wouldn't be surprising if he chooses to move on to a new target promptly after Ukraine just because why not. The same crazy calculation that gets us here, it isn't too far of a stretch from there to argue (if you're Putin) for trying to take some of Finland's territory. Germany needs to take this very seriously and I think they're beginning to.
dageshi 5y ago
Not German and I have no doubt this is all true. But in light of current events a lot of people who previously objected to things like windmills may see them as a necessary evil vs being reliant on Russian gas. Energy security is likely one of the most paramount issues in europe now, I expect there will be big changes.
- olivermarks 5y ago
  'Things like windmills' are not going to be fit for purpose to power the western world. They produce tiny amounts of energy if the wind is blowing, look hideous and kill a lot of airborne wildlife
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    In the last 3 weeks it was quite windy in Europe and German wind power production equaled or even surpassed French nuclear production. Of course, the wind and solar power capacity needs to be built up considerably, but the amounts produced are not tiny at all.
  - VaxWithSex 5y ago
    Oh please, stop this nonsense. The wind generators produce Gigwatts of power, more than our entire nuclear plants ever did already. They look beutiful like spanish countryside and the wildlife is safe from them due to new technology already implemented in new plants.
  - dageshi 5y ago
    They do work just not all of the time. But they're easy and relatively cheap to construct, they can be put up and taken back down again quickly and leave no permanent mark on the landscape. It's not an either or, europe should do everything and do it now, do solar, do wind, do tidal, do nuclear, do everything and do it now to get off Russian gas.
_ph_ 5y ago
First of all, all of this was decisions by the previous government, which indeed did not do enough to sustain the switch to renewables. The new government would have changed this anyway, the energy scarcity gives this an additional push - now everyone can see how much cheaper renewable energy is over all. The payments from the EEG-Umlage are not stopping, it is just the financing of them. One problem of it was, that it was paid mostly by the consumers and small businesses. Basing it on taxes ensures a more fair financing. I am sure, next will be a lot of law changes to facilitate a quick build up of renewable energies. Especially as now the FDP is also pushing for this, before they were quite reluctant.
- lampe3 5y ago
  We will see. I did not like the GroKo either but I'm also not the biggest fan of the FDP. We will still need some big law changes to make this happen. I don't see it happening this fast as it should be to reach a goal of 100% in 2035.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    Not sure I count as a fan of the FDP either, but they are very close to the industry. If they are pushing for renewables, that means a core influence group has committed to that and together with the greens, they can push for the necessary changes.
- llampx 5y ago
  Most of the points are from local governments and people's opinions, nothing to do with the colors currently in charge. And don't forget that plenty of those people still voted CDU and SPD this time.

by lampe3 5y ago

VaxWithSex 5y ago

[flagged]

sabjut 5y ago
This and the widespread tradition of german NIMBYism do that to your power infrastructure.

sarsway 5y ago

- dumping 150 bil into war machines in a knee-jerk reaction, subsidizing a useless polluting industry (but we just print the money so no worries)

dageshi 5y ago
If Germany had funded it's military in the way a nato country should (2% of gdp per year) it would not now suddenly have to play catch up.
- sarsway 5y ago
  It should be 0%. Catch up to what - for what? So we can go do some drone bombing in Africa like a proper western nation? Is that the plan? I guess it's easier to give the guys with the big guns what the want, instead of actually staying true to the values of demilitarizatizing the planet.
  - hpkuarg 5y ago
    It should be 0%? If men were angels, I guess. How do you propose that we demilitarize the planet, without a big stick to whack down the bad players that will inevitably arise?
  - merb 5y ago
    if you tell russians to take down their weapons, their will be no war. if you tell ukrains to take down their weapons, they will loose their country. it's not as easy as you wish, besides that I would prefer like you would describe, unfortunatly as long as there are borders/humans/whatever there will always be conflicts.
dahdum 5y ago
> subsidizing a useless polluting industry I don't see how you can claim defense is a useless industry while the world is watching a sovereign nation defend itself against an invading army.
- treeman79 5y ago
  A lot of people are crazy enough to think that if we get rid of the military no one will take a vantage of the situation.
adventured 5y ago
The NATO alliance - and EU - is going to need a lot of hardware and technology to stop Russia if it's going to arm-up and empire-up, if it plans to take Ukraine with the help of Belarus and then potentially move on to other targets after that (Baltics, Moldova, Poland, Sweden, Finland, whichever). Russia has clearly taken over Belarus here, this is the USSR beginning to march with multiple armies again. If Putin redirects his nation into a persistent war footing, and redirects his nation's resources into war mode (shifting to mass killing the opposition outright as in the old days, Stalinification), then for a stretch of time that will be a very dangerous, very potent effect and will enable Russia to push outward militarily in a way they otherwise wouldn't be able to (and yes it'll run out of fuel eventually, as it's a rapid depletion move, but for N years it'll be a very potent adversary). $150 billion might not be enough, unless Germany plans to play no role in defending the eastern flank of NATO as Russia marches. They have been badly underfunded for decades, $150b is a down payment on catching up. Putin's Russia is going to be in an economic and political swamp for a long time for this, it wouldn't be surprising if he chooses to move on to a new target promptly after Ukraine just because why not. The same crazy calculation that gets us here, it isn't too far of a stretch from there to argue (if you're Putin) for trying to take some of Finland's territory. Germany needs to take this very seriously and I think they're beginning to.

dageshi 5y ago

Not German and I have no doubt this is all true. But in light of current events a lot of people who previously objected to things like windmills may see them as a necessary evil vs being reliant on Russian gas. Energy security is likely one of the most paramount issues in europe now, I expect there will be big changes.

olivermarks 5y ago
'Things like windmills' are not going to be fit for purpose to power the western world. They produce tiny amounts of energy if the wind is blowing, look hideous and kill a lot of airborne wildlife
- _ph_ 5y ago
  In the last 3 weeks it was quite windy in Europe and German wind power production equaled or even surpassed French nuclear production. Of course, the wind and solar power capacity needs to be built up considerably, but the amounts produced are not tiny at all.
- VaxWithSex 5y ago
  Oh please, stop this nonsense. The wind generators produce Gigwatts of power, more than our entire nuclear plants ever did already. They look beutiful like spanish countryside and the wildlife is safe from them due to new technology already implemented in new plants.
- dageshi 5y ago
  They do work just not all of the time. But they're easy and relatively cheap to construct, they can be put up and taken back down again quickly and leave no permanent mark on the landscape. It's not an either or, europe should do everything and do it now, do solar, do wind, do tidal, do nuclear, do everything and do it now to get off Russian gas.

_ph_ 5y ago

First of all, all of this was decisions by the previous government, which indeed did not do enough to sustain the switch to renewables. The new government would have changed this anyway, the energy scarcity gives this an additional push - now everyone can see how much cheaper renewable energy is over all. The payments from the EEG-Umlage are not stopping, it is just the financing of them. One problem of it was, that it was paid mostly by the consumers and small businesses. Basing it on taxes ensures a more fair financing. I am sure, next will be a lot of law changes to facilitate a quick build up of renewable energies. Especially as now the FDP is also pushing for this, before they were quite reluctant.

lampe3 5y ago
We will see. I did not like the GroKo either but I'm also not the biggest fan of the FDP. We will still need some big law changes to make this happen. I don't see it happening this fast as it should be to reach a goal of 100% in 2035.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  Not sure I count as a fan of the FDP either, but they are very close to the industry. If they are pushing for renewables, that means a core influence group has committed to that and together with the greens, they can push for the necessary changes.
llampx 5y ago
Most of the points are from local governments and people's opinions, nothing to do with the colors currently in charge. And don't forget that plenty of those people still voted CDU and SPD this time.