3 ms·

What is the alternative?

by totony 5y ago

kadoban 5y ago
If I had an easy one, I wouldn't just be some jackass on the internet. But "let's make millions of people miserable on purpose" doesn't sound like a great start to me. Has it ever worked, either?
- totony 5y ago
  If your government makes a bad decision, it affects you. That's just how it works. I'm not too familiar with history but IIRC most empires fall when they lose internal cohesion or get invaded by a bigger empire. The only alternative to an internal revolution is an invasion (AFAIK). That's not feasible with MAD. Alternatively you can just give them what they want. For how long you can keep that up is the question tho.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Or you can do what we're currently attempting and aim to hurt those in power. Will the common people be affected? Yes. But that shouldn't be the goal.
    - totony 5y ago
      I don't think that is the goal. The goal is to stop the war and prevent further escalation. Of course you should focus on the ones who have power, but they are going to use the "general population" as shields. And you don't want to have useless sanctions just so you don't affect the common people.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        It's the goal I read from the comment I was responding to: > This perception that ordinary people should be immune to the actions of their governments is weird. Civilian opposition to their government is what prevents unnecessary wars. It's not other's duty to fix your country. Civil unrest is the only way to prevent war and a lot of bloodshed.
        totony 5y ago
        Fair. I was saying that as a rebuttal of what i perceived is a common view (bad for normal russians = bad sanction). My intent was more in that line versus aiming to penalize citizen. But I do also believe (and it showed in my comment) that affecting laypeople is something that is viable as a last resort (and better than war).
        kadoban 5y ago
        Ah, yeah I don't think we can avoid harming normal Russians and wouldn't say that makes sanctions wrong. We do have to do _something_.

What is the alternative?

by totony 5y ago

What is the alternative?

If I had an easy one, I wouldn't just be some jackass on the internet. But "let's make millions of people miserable on purpose" doesn't sound like a great start to me. Has it ever worked, either?

totony 5y ago
If your government makes a bad decision, it affects you. That's just how it works. I'm not too familiar with history but IIRC most empires fall when they lose internal cohesion or get invaded by a bigger empire. The only alternative to an internal revolution is an invasion (AFAIK). That's not feasible with MAD. Alternatively you can just give them what they want. For how long you can keep that up is the question tho.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Or you can do what we're currently attempting and aim to hurt those in power. Will the common people be affected? Yes. But that shouldn't be the goal.
  - totony 5y ago
    I don't think that is the goal. The goal is to stop the war and prevent further escalation. Of course you should focus on the ones who have power, but they are going to use the "general population" as shields. And you don't want to have useless sanctions just so you don't affect the common people.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      It's the goal I read from the comment I was responding to: > This perception that ordinary people should be immune to the actions of their governments is weird. Civilian opposition to their government is what prevents unnecessary wars. It's not other's duty to fix your country. Civil unrest is the only way to prevent war and a lot of bloodshed.
      - totony 5y ago
        Fair. I was saying that as a rebuttal of what i perceived is a common view (bad for normal russians = bad sanction). My intent was more in that line versus aiming to penalize citizen. But I do also believe (and it showed in my comment) that affecting laypeople is something that is viable as a last resort (and better than war).
        kadoban 5y ago
        Ah, yeah I don't think we can avoid harming normal Russians and wouldn't say that makes sanctions wrong. We do have to do _something_.