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> Public sector employees don't get to suck up my tax dollars and then only work if they feel like it. Does your position on this extend to police unions?

nradov 5y ago
Yes. All public employee unions including police should be decertified. If they want better pay or working conditions then they should ask their elected politicians just like any other citizen.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
civilized 5y ago
If someone wants to work out the logistics of "charter police" I'll hear them out, but right now the option doesn't exist.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  They do actually! https://www.postandcourier.com/archives/s-c-s-hired-guns/article_172cbe74-5f67-5c93-aeb9-7cb117ab8270.html https://www.postandcourier.com/archives/s-c-s-hired-guns/art...
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Private security?
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    Autodefensas against the Knights Templar^W^Wpolice of Brookside, AL? Count me in!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
I'm not the op, but it certainly does for me. I'm a strong supporter of unions and a strong opponent of public sector unions. Private sector unions are a critical counterweight to the power that private employers have over their employees. Taxpayers are the employers of public sector employees, which makes public sector unions nothing but political lobbying organizations.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I think that's a valid opinion. But I also appreciate that in some regards the public is the most fickle of employers, the most punitive, the most likely to use their power for evil. If we want to attract well qualified people to work for the public, we need to offer something -- at this time it isn't salary, for sure, so I guess it must be the stability provided by the union representation.
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    Most public sector workers have benefits, pensions, paid time off and a variety of other means of compensation aside from their salaries - unlike many private sector workers. All of them have the opportunity to vote for the politicians who come up with the policies that govern their public sector jobs. They are also free to form their own associations, coalitions and lobbying groups to further influence whoever they want in their capacity as private citizens. But when it comes to collective bargaining and other, specific legislated rights we have legally granted unions, it is a bridge too far.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      I have indirect personal experience with what it's like to be a public employee. My own mother worked for the local community college for most of her career. She went for many years without any raise, instead the politicians improved the retirement perks. So she stuck with it. Just before it was time for her to retire, the voters made a serious attempt to destroy the retirement system for public employees, nevermind all the promises made over the years in lieu of actual cost-of-living increases. Luckily, they failed to destroy her retirement. With her pension along with social security she is comfortable enough. Nobody's ever going to call her wealthy, not even close, but voters would have stripped her of that pension and made her scrape by on social security. It's easy to hate on public employees, but I don't think they automatically deserve fewer protections than private company employees enjoy.
cplusplusfellow 5y ago
Why would you assume it doesn’t?
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  It was a question. The literal opposite of an assumption.
- Wiseacre 5y ago
  It was a question not an assumption. And it pointed out the hypocritical attitude about unions.
  - gweinberg 5y ago
    Obviously if it as a question it didn't point out anything. That you think it does indicates it looked like a rhetorical question, not a real one.
sgustard 5y ago
Police are an interesting counterpoint, since police are one of the most vaccine-resistent groups. I'd like to see a similar study: do we see the stronger the police union, the lower the vaccination rate? Is there any argument outside the union that refusing the vaccine provides any benefit to the public, or only harm?

nradov 5y ago

Yes. All public employee unions including police should be decertified. If they want better pay or working conditions then they should ask their elected politicians just like any other citizen.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

civilized 5y ago

If someone wants to work out the logistics of "charter police" I'll hear them out, but right now the option doesn't exist.

Spooky23 5y ago
They do actually! https://www.postandcourier.com/archives/s-c-s-hired-guns/article_172cbe74-5f67-5c93-aeb9-7cb117ab8270.html https://www.postandcourier.com/archives/s-c-s-hired-guns/art...
ethbr0 5y ago
Private security?
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Autodefensas against the Knights Templar^W^Wpolice of Brookside, AL? Count me in!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

StanislavPetrov 5y ago

I'm not the op, but it certainly does for me. I'm a strong supporter of unions and a strong opponent of public sector unions. Private sector unions are a critical counterweight to the power that private employers have over their employees. Taxpayers are the employers of public sector employees, which makes public sector unions nothing but political lobbying organizations.

rootusrootus 5y ago
I think that's a valid opinion. But I also appreciate that in some regards the public is the most fickle of employers, the most punitive, the most likely to use their power for evil. If we want to attract well qualified people to work for the public, we need to offer something -- at this time it isn't salary, for sure, so I guess it must be the stability provided by the union representation.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  Most public sector workers have benefits, pensions, paid time off and a variety of other means of compensation aside from their salaries - unlike many private sector workers. All of them have the opportunity to vote for the politicians who come up with the policies that govern their public sector jobs. They are also free to form their own associations, coalitions and lobbying groups to further influence whoever they want in their capacity as private citizens. But when it comes to collective bargaining and other, specific legislated rights we have legally granted unions, it is a bridge too far.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    I have indirect personal experience with what it's like to be a public employee. My own mother worked for the local community college for most of her career. She went for many years without any raise, instead the politicians improved the retirement perks. So she stuck with it. Just before it was time for her to retire, the voters made a serious attempt to destroy the retirement system for public employees, nevermind all the promises made over the years in lieu of actual cost-of-living increases. Luckily, they failed to destroy her retirement. With her pension along with social security she is comfortable enough. Nobody's ever going to call her wealthy, not even close, but voters would have stripped her of that pension and made her scrape by on social security. It's easy to hate on public employees, but I don't think they automatically deserve fewer protections than private company employees enjoy.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago

Why would you assume it doesn’t?

rootusrootus 5y ago
It was a question. The literal opposite of an assumption.
Wiseacre 5y ago
It was a question not an assumption. And it pointed out the hypocritical attitude about unions.
- gweinberg 5y ago
  Obviously if it as a question it didn't point out anything. That you think it does indicates it looked like a rhetorical question, not a real one.

sgustard 5y ago

Police are an interesting counterpoint, since police are one of the most vaccine-resistent groups. I'd like to see a similar study: do we see the stronger the police union, the lower the vaccination rate? Is there any argument outside the union that refusing the vaccine provides any benefit to the public, or only harm?