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If you put all the defense budgets of the EU together it dwarfs Russia. Sadly because of historical reasons we can't have a European army.

Aeolun 5y ago
I think it’s more that this is difficult. But certainly not impossible. The problem is that we’d need an even more integrated Europe (and probably language). And a lot of people don’t want that.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>Sadly because of historical reasons we can't have a European army No, history is not the issue, it's because good luck convincing French or Germans for example, they gotta send their men to fight protecting Poland, Romania or Bulgaria for example, or vice versa. All you have to do is look at how badly EU countries cooperated during the Greek economic crisis, the migrant crisis of 2015, the Covid crisis, etc. Every EU member government was blaming each other or the immigrants from poorer countries and refusing to cooperate or come to a consensus. And you think military cooperation will somehow work better?
- viraptor 5y ago
  We don't have an international pact triggered by historical experience around handling refugees, or infectious disease control. We have one like that exactly for the purpose of military support. So yes, we expect NATO members to step up for protection of other members. We have joint exercises so that the forces do have common approaches and plans.
  - viraptor 5y ago
    Turns out things change quickly: https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051 https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051 > EU announces it has agreed unanimously amongst all member countries to take in Ukrainian refugees fir up to 3 years without asking them to first apply for asylum.
- cyberlurker 5y ago
  In the end I’d say the Greek economic crisis was handled well. The things you mention are very tricky and not guaranteed to have any solutions.
- markvdb 5y ago
  These crises have all increased cooperation within the EU to some extent: - The Greek economy is not dead thanks to an EU debt jubilee that could not be called that way. - The migrant crisis has increased the role of Frontex and other EU level instruments by an extent unimaginable before. - My significant other is Latvian, lives in Belgium, got her first and second covid shot in France, and her third one in Germany. - In this crisis, even - hm, let's call them "less cooperative" politicians- like Matteo Salvini, Mateusz Morawiecki and Viktor Orban got behind several common EU policies at political light speed. - Did you see the recent flurry of NATO moving east announcements?
mrweasel 5y ago
How is it even possible for Russian to outspend the EU in defence? The Russian economy isn’t that much bigger than Spain.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >How is it even possible for Russian to outspend the EU in defence? The Russian economy isn’t that much bigger than Spain. That's not what the OP said.
basisword 5y ago
What would the point of a European army be when our national military’s are sitting by watching as a peaceful European country gets invaded? We’re all up for participating in unjust wars against weak opponents in the Middle East, but when there’s a war worth fighting we roll over. And I say this as someone very anti-military. If anything, the current situation is showing me we should be reducing our military spending because we’re not making any use of it.
- spupe 5y ago
  Participation in this war could lead to nuclear annihilation. We have no treaties or commitments to be involved in it, and so we won't. This investment is to make sure Russia doesn't get any wrong ideas about invading any NATO or EU countries.
  - flipbrad 5y ago
    For it to do so would be folly, whether or not Germany increases its annual military budget.
- Melio 5y ago
  It's just not that easy. The war is a few days old. Everyone was hoping Putin is not lying in there faces. Ukraine is not in the NATO and you want to find the right balance between total war and diplomatic ways. And yes Russia has nuklear weapons btw.
  - basisword 5y ago
    It’s politically complicated of course. But I don’t think our Western European governments have ever looked weaker. We can barely all agree on the right economic sanctions. 1. It may be a few days old but we stood by as Russia took Crimea years ago. We shouldn’t have allowed that in the first place. 2. Many counties have nukes. Ukraine had them and gave them up in exchange for security assurances from UK/US/Russia. 3. The UK gov is now saying if British citizens want to go and fight in Ukraine they support them. Maybe we should send some of the soldiers we’ve spent lots of taxpayer money training instead?

Aeolun 5y ago

I think it’s more that this is difficult. But certainly not impossible. The problem is that we’d need an even more integrated Europe (and probably language). And a lot of people don’t want that.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

>Sadly because of historical reasons we can't have a European army No, history is not the issue, it's because good luck convincing French or Germans for example, they gotta send their men to fight protecting Poland, Romania or Bulgaria for example, or vice versa. All you have to do is look at how badly EU countries cooperated during the Greek economic crisis, the migrant crisis of 2015, the Covid crisis, etc. Every EU member government was blaming each other or the immigrants from poorer countries and refusing to cooperate or come to a consensus. And you think military cooperation will somehow work better?

viraptor 5y ago
We don't have an international pact triggered by historical experience around handling refugees, or infectious disease control. We have one like that exactly for the purpose of military support. So yes, we expect NATO members to step up for protection of other members. We have joint exercises so that the forces do have common approaches and plans.
- viraptor 5y ago
  Turns out things change quickly: https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051 https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1498017173792514051 > EU announces it has agreed unanimously amongst all member countries to take in Ukrainian refugees fir up to 3 years without asking them to first apply for asylum.
cyberlurker 5y ago
In the end I’d say the Greek economic crisis was handled well. The things you mention are very tricky and not guaranteed to have any solutions.
markvdb 5y ago
These crises have all increased cooperation within the EU to some extent: - The Greek economy is not dead thanks to an EU debt jubilee that could not be called that way. - The migrant crisis has increased the role of Frontex and other EU level instruments by an extent unimaginable before. - My significant other is Latvian, lives in Belgium, got her first and second covid shot in France, and her third one in Germany. - In this crisis, even - hm, let's call them "less cooperative" politicians- like Matteo Salvini, Mateusz Morawiecki and Viktor Orban got behind several common EU policies at political light speed. - Did you see the recent flurry of NATO moving east announcements?

mrweasel 5y ago

How is it even possible for Russian to outspend the EU in defence? The Russian economy isn’t that much bigger than Spain.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>How is it even possible for Russian to outspend the EU in defence? The Russian economy isn’t that much bigger than Spain. That's not what the OP said.

basisword 5y ago

What would the point of a European army be when our national military’s are sitting by watching as a peaceful European country gets invaded? We’re all up for participating in unjust wars against weak opponents in the Middle East, but when there’s a war worth fighting we roll over. And I say this as someone very anti-military. If anything, the current situation is showing me we should be reducing our military spending because we’re not making any use of it.

spupe 5y ago
Participation in this war could lead to nuclear annihilation. We have no treaties or commitments to be involved in it, and so we won't. This investment is to make sure Russia doesn't get any wrong ideas about invading any NATO or EU countries.
- flipbrad 5y ago
  For it to do so would be folly, whether or not Germany increases its annual military budget.
Melio 5y ago
It's just not that easy. The war is a few days old. Everyone was hoping Putin is not lying in there faces. Ukraine is not in the NATO and you want to find the right balance between total war and diplomatic ways. And yes Russia has nuklear weapons btw.
- basisword 5y ago
  It’s politically complicated of course. But I don’t think our Western European governments have ever looked weaker. We can barely all agree on the right economic sanctions. 1. It may be a few days old but we stood by as Russia took Crimea years ago. We shouldn’t have allowed that in the first place. 2. Many counties have nukes. Ukraine had them and gave them up in exchange for security assurances from UK/US/Russia. 3. The UK gov is now saying if British citizens want to go and fight in Ukraine they support them. Maybe we should send some of the soldiers we’ve spent lots of taxpayer money training instead?