9 ms·
How about invest 100 billion on renewables to get independence from russian gas.
by jnsaff2 5y ago
How about invest 100 billion on renewables to get independence from russian gas.
- umpalumpaaa 5y agoPart of the speech the chancellor gave was also the announcement to build two new LGN terminals „pretty quickly“ in order to gain more independence. This of course goes hand in hand with a general push to more renewables.
- Aeolun 5y agoHuh? He’s going to build more gas terminals to reduce the dependence on gas?
- reitanqild 5y agoProbably to reduce the dependency on Russian gas.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ahartmetz 5y agoThe dependence on Russian gas
- sidkshatriya 5y agoYou can import gas via pipeline (from Russia) or in liquid form (LNG) from Qatar and others. You need a terminal to deal with LNG which is under high pressure and very low temperatures. It will take longer to move away from gas as an energy source. That will happen over next decade at least.
- mschuster91 5y agoThe idea is to use these to import LNG from the US and Qatar, so that these terminals together with those in France, Belgium and the Netherlands can be used to supply all of Europe with gas - including the countries in Eastern Europe, that currently depend on Russian gas even more than we do.
- umpalumpaaa 5y agoThe plan is to reduce the dependency on Russia and then to retrofit the terminal and gas plants to work with green hydrogen.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- p410n3 5y agohttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/germany-paid-record-38-billion-for-green-power-growth-in-2020 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/germany-p...
- turing_complete 5y agoOr even better: nuclear. You need a reliable source of energy, otherwise you have to combine solar and wind with gas anyway.
- insickness 5y ago"Back in the 1970s, when France decided to switch from fossil fuels to nuclear energy, the climate problem was not even on the agenda. And yet, within about 15 years France had almost fully decarbonized its electricity sector and had electrified a lot of other stuff (such as electrical heating and high-speed trains). Countries like France and Sweden have demonstrated in real life that it is possible to eliminate fossil fuels without sacrificing economic growth and prosperity. The reason why the carbon intensity of German electricity, even after two full decades of Energiewende, is still more than five times higher than that of nuclear France is [...] because anti-nuclear environmentalists [...] have more political clout in Germany than in France and have convinced their political leaders that it’s an excellent “climate policy” to abandon atomic energy and close down all of their remaining reactors. https://quillette.com/2022/01/27/why-environmentalists-pose-a-bigger-obstacle-to-effective-climate-policy-than-denialists/ https://quillette.com/2022/01/27/why-environmentalists-pose-...
- orbifold 5y agoGood chance that Green Party received significant support from outside forces to derail a sensible energy policy. Relying on fossil fuels / gas makes Germany way more dependent on the US and Russia, then otherwise.
- Jon_Lowtek 5y agothe green party wasn't part of government in the last 16 years and had little to no say in energy policy
- Gwypaas 5y agoThe largest, and essentially only, anti-nuclear movement that exists is it's own economics. Blaming "environmentalists" is a cop-out instead of facing the reality: If it was profitable private capital would build it, if not in Germany then in other countries, further reducing cost. As have been seen since the 1950s that is not the case, nuclear has never been economical to build. Nuclear has a place to do what the French did, massive subsidies to achieve a national security motivated energy independence. With renewables at the fore front that argument does not exist anymore. Now nuclear only exists to share an industry base with naval reactors in submarines.
- Melio 5y agoHow about not assuming that one thing is depending on the other. You are aware what Habeck is currently doing?
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoWhat is Habeck doing?
- Melio 5y agoHe made a plan for a new renewable energy push and started to visit every constituent state to discuss his plans. He is doing this hands on and pushing a strong renewable agenda. There are already plans for laws which will force more investment and reduce burdens. He talked about it in length just in January.
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoHe definitely has an agenda but what is he doing? He does talk a lot, that’s true. Right now he’s only achieved rising energy prices (before the Russian invasion, through co2 tax increases) and stopping KfW-Bauförderung.
- Melio 5y agoHe has his position for how long? Exactly. He already mentioned his timeline. Let's start critisis him when the time is right and not just a few month after the election. And yes corona and Ukraine conflict adds additional burden on everyone.
- b3orn 5y agoHe stopped it a week before it would've ended anyway. And energy prices were going up before he got into office.
- rad_gruchalski 5y ago
- belter 5y agoOr revert the decision to phase out nuclear power.
- ascar 5y agoWhile I would appreciate that, this would be political suicide for the Green party involved in the coalition. While they want a lot less co2 they are also very much anti-fission.
- rad_gruchalski 5y agoGreen party also was against spending money on the military. So there you go. The situation has changed dramatically since the election.
- Melio 5y agoGreen is on the other side true but the current legislation works well together as far as I'm experiencing it. It feels more like modern cooperation working together.
- mschuster91 5y agoThat's outright impossible. Not just on the political level - no one aside from the fascist party wants nuclear energy. The closed-down reactors are being torn down as we speak, it is impossible to put them back together. For those still running, we do not have the capacity to make new fuel rods for and to maintain the reactors themselves, they are at the end of their designed life time. And new projects are completely out of the question - the French and Finnish projects are many years and many billions over budget.
- Pigalowda 5y agoThat’s kind of a brittle take. Germany has suffered an embarrassment and is back peddling over the course of only a few days. - From helmets to actual military aid to Ukraine. - large increase in military expenditure instead of woeful inadequacy. - reversal of Swift decision. Why wouldn’t there be a change in energy policy if Russia continues its war in Ukraine? This huge reliance on Russian gas has Europe, and especially Germany, in this strange conflict of interest.
- bakuninsbart 5y agoThe same speech actually mentions energy security [0], and the new government is planning to invest a huge amount into renewable energy and a deeper integration of the european energy market. One thing that is often left out of the international discussion of Germany's domestic policies is that we actually put a law into our constitution to limit governments from making new debt... So if the current government wants to take on new debt for Defense and Energy Transition, it will have to either do some tricks (the 100B for the military is supposed to come from a different, special pot), or change the constitution again, for which they would need the votes of the opposition. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F1xCKi5vY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F1xCKi5vY
- Zerverus 5y agoIt’s a unique opportunity because it’ll force conservatives who are mostly to blame for the status quo to choose between Weak in defense and Fiscal restraint
- campl3r 5y agoOr Germany could decrease out enormous welfare spending.
- netcan 5y agoI suspect Germany (and other EU countries) approach to debt is gonna be based in tricks and stuff over the next few years. A lot of the 90s era monetary economics that the euro is intertwined in has been collapsing as a dominant school of thought. Covid plays a role here, but a lot of it has been building since 2009 & the greek debt crisis. I don't think many are ready (especially in germany) to throw out institutions, even ethereal intellectual ones... but OTOH change has come. Military emergencies, historically, are pivot points for monetary infrastructure... FWIW. Interestingly, I'm not sure the german constitution necessarily has to change. In some sense, the more conceptually radical solutions wouldn't require it. ECB debt, or at least the debt transferred to the ECB in the 90s, just needs to stop being considered debt.
- 5y ago
- sto_hristo 5y ago
- Melio 5y agoYou do ignore science on purpose? Are you not aware that the fuel for nuklear is limited? Do you ignore how cheap renewable is and how much nuklear is subsidiest? Do you not care that no nuklear power operator has limited liability which means the costs of accidents are paid by all of us? Is there anything of a real argument you can provide to proof your 'cashgrab shit against the naive hippies' statement?
- Ralfp 5y agoI am yet to see systemic renewable power source that is available to country like Germany (or Poland where we also have discussion about going nuclear). All renewables available to us are considered supplementary (they generate power when conditions are favorable, eg. wind blows, sun is shining). But this means they can’t be used to maintain power grid. Ofc you can try hydro or geothermal, but those depend on your river network, underground warm waters availability, as well as population density around country. Those work for country like Norway but in practice German increasingly relies on French nuclear power as systemic source to maintain their grid, and Poland (sadly) sticks to coal and gas.
- Melio 5y agoRenewable most of the time allows to keep reserves and use them when necessary. Also the renewable story is not just solar and wind but also short term energy storage. The dependency to Russian gas is only 30%. Adding more thermal solar energy on roofs and bigger heat water storage is relatively easy to achieve. Of course Germany should have pushed renewable even further and we did not. It's frustrating to see so little solar panels in cities.
- Ralfp 5y agoWhat are those reserves? How are they supposed to work? Can you store enough reserves to power the town?
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y agoWhy not both?
- u320 5y ago100 billion in renewables balanced by natural gas, to get independence from russian gas. Great idea.
- inter_netuser 5y agoGermany has built out so much renewables, that France now has to build more nuke powerplants to support Germany's erratic grid. Germany should start building nuclear themselves, instead of bailing out the French nuclear industry. $100bn can build a lot of nuclear powerplants.
- sveme 5y agoWhere do you get that from? There's a large interconnected grid that helps balance production imbalances over many countries and regions. During hot summers, when the water level in French rivers is low, Germany exports renewable energy to France (Germany, btw, exports more electricity to France than it imports). In the winter with low wind, Germany imports electricity from France. Why the hell do we have these highly polarized discussions whenever Germany, France and electricity production comes up?
- theropost 5y agoso... 100 billion to China then?