13 ms·

Russia gives Ukraine deadline for decision on talks in Belarus

42 points by maury91 5y ago

jokoon 5y ago
Where else could they go? Poland seems like a good candidate? Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania...
- EliRivers 5y ago
  Zelenskyy said anywhere that isn't actually firing missiles at Ukraine right now. Which is a pretty big list.
grej 5y ago
The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. IMO the US should at least consider having VP Harris join Zalensky as an observer to help broker the talks. Make it very known to the Russians that she is with him, to deter possible assassination attempts.
- Proven 5y ago
- mint2 5y ago
  No, that would make Russians have a propaganda field day falsely saying that the USA controlled Ukraine. Instead nato should allow Ukraine to announce the 2nd in commands from two Other main European countries like France and Sweden to come as observers.
  - grej 5y ago
    That’s a very good point. Perhaps non-NATO EU countries (Sweden, Finland, Ireland?) would even be best as NATO itself is such a flashpoint for the conflict.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  > The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. Interesting, do you have a link?
  - jaclaz 5y ago
    I guess the reference is to this: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chechen-leader-killed https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chechen-le...
- rasz 5y ago
  Putin is not coming, so why do you presume Zalensky is going to show up in person?
- vanusa 5y ago
  The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. Assassinated he was, but he wasn't en route to peace talks at the time.
stevespang 5y ago
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
Why would anyone agree to that when Russians are attacking Ukrainians from Belarus?
- terafo 5y ago
  It is possible that Russians understand that nobody would agree to such egregious conditions, and do this so they can claim that ukrainian "nazi" government is "refusing negotiations".
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  They wouldn’t, that’s the whole point of Russia demanding negotiations be held in Belarus. Russia doesn’t actually want to negotiate, they want to be able to blame Ukraine for not negotiating to strengthen their domestic case for war.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
maury91 5y ago
> If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed On my personal opinion this is another case of Russia making unacceptable requests ( bring our #1 target in a nation hostile to you ) and blame the other party when this doesn't happen
- lawn 5y ago
  It's pretty obvious tbh.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    Because they don't care about fooling you ('the West'). It was done for internal consumption, as usual. I expect them to put the blame on Ukrainian diplomats in the evening news.
    - maury91 5y ago
      I believe it could be also an excuse to justify ( internally ) why the war is going so slow. "It is not that Ukrainians don't want to be saved and are fighting hard, it is because we want to give them opportunities for diplomacy and we stopped the hostility for a day"
  - zx85wes 5y ago
    They'd need a flying DeLorean to make it. It's 3:24PM there now.
- libertine 5y ago
  They probably can't do much other than trying to keep this rhetoric, but the truth is that at the moment, and probably for the foreseeable future, Putin and the regime "word" lost any worth. Doing what ever pleases you after saying you're doing something, like saying you won't do something while preparing to do the opposite has consequences. Duplicity has consequences. It might work internally, or against smaller isolated countries (regrettably), which is great for dictators... Trust was shattered, even if we accuse the West of being naive - still - in diplomacy trust paramount. I don't see how Putin will set his feet back into this globalized world. Who would trust his word for anything? So if the goal was to completely isolate Russia, destroy it's importance in the global theater in a time of change, that was achieved.
upofadown 5y ago
What, they don't have email? What exactly is being proposed here? What would be the point of face to face negotiations? Since people are actively dying right now, why would you wait for people to be in the same spot?
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  I hope you aren't serious. Same reason why any important meeting is held face to face and not delegated to email. How do you verify who you are talking with? How do you make sure the communication isn't tampered with? From Russia's point of view how you make sure email with insane demands is not leaked?
  - upofadown 5y ago
    I think for something like this they could afford the bother to have someone sign the emails. World leaders make pronouncements all the time and there is no problem with provenance. Everyone knows the issues and existing proposals/demands. You only have to cover whatever has changed. >From Russia's point of view how you make sure email with insane demands is not leaked? Any insane demands will be leaked by the other party. Nations can't have secret discussions that mean anything.
  - twoxproblematic 5y ago
ukraineally 5y ago
China seems to have been blindsided on this war. They most likely were made aware of the republics but certainly didn't expect full invasion. On day 2, china demanded diplomatic talks, hosted in china. Russia refused. Said they could happen in their puppet belarus. Which is outrageous and a huge slap in the face to China. Russia saying they stand for peace is absolutely absurd. Everyone around the world knows it is Russia who is the aggressor. >"If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed," Medinsky said. "But we remain here until 15:00 waiting for a response from the Ukrainian side." On the contrary. Russia bears ALL responsibility hence forth regardless of anything Russia ever says or does. >"We are waiting. Everyone is in Gomel waiting. If they come then there will be negotiations," Lukashenko Oh ya, I bet they are waiting. I bet China is on the brink of breaking their alliance. You must remember, China hates Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking The UK used to own Hong Kong, Portugal Macau. Those were rightfully returned to China. Russia still holds Chinese land. If you also look at it, China was going to uphold the right for these new republics to exist.Casting significant doubt on China's intention to invade Taiwan. I wrote here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30471021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30471021 about how Russian spies have infiltrated Canadian media. They pushed utter lies that Canadians are nazis. For example, https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... You will notice this Russian spy: https://globalnews.ca/author/rachel-gilmore/ https://globalnews.ca/author/rachel-gilmore/ stopped publishing quite abruptly. At exactly the same time the russian invasion was happening and the Canadian government getting wise. Did she escape back to Russia or did the RCMP pick her up? We may never know. We must also face the possibility that our perception of China has been manipulated by Russian spies. That China is actually our ally and Xi Jinping no longer believes in territorial borders or at least any need to move them. China's very long history has never been about expansion. The list of wars involving China is quite small.
- programmer_dude 5y ago
  >China's very long history has never been about expansion. The list of wars involving China is quite small. LOL. What has "long history" got to do with what the CCP is doing now?
0x38B 5y ago
President Zelenskiy wrote 40 minutes ago (1): "Results of my conversation with Alexander Lukashenko. We agreed that the Ukrainian delegation will meet with the Russian one without pre-conditions on the Ukraine-Belarus border near the Pripyat river. Alexander Lukashenko took personal responsibility for all planes, helicopters, and rockets on Belarusian territory staying grounded during our travel there, the talks, and the return of the Ukrainian delegation." 1: https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official/745 https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official/745
- svilen_dobrev 5y ago
  pfff. Even if any one believes the "will stay grounded" part, that's Belarus teritory.. The distances are minutes for fighter jets..
The_rationalist 5y ago
rasz 5y ago
Last time a president decided to join "peace talks" with russia they (Clinton helped!) tracked his sat phone and dropped missiles on his position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_leg...

42 points by maury91 5y ago

jokoon 5y ago

Where else could they go? Poland seems like a good candidate? Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania...

EliRivers 5y ago
Zelenskyy said anywhere that isn't actually firing missiles at Ukraine right now. Which is a pretty big list.

grej 5y ago

The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. IMO the US should at least consider having VP Harris join Zalensky as an observer to help broker the talks. Make it very known to the Russians that she is with him, to deter possible assassination attempts.

Proven 5y ago
mint2 5y ago
No, that would make Russians have a propaganda field day falsely saying that the USA controlled Ukraine. Instead nato should allow Ukraine to announce the 2nd in commands from two Other main European countries like France and Sweden to come as observers.
- grej 5y ago
  That’s a very good point. Perhaps non-NATO EU countries (Sweden, Finland, Ireland?) would even be best as NATO itself is such a flashpoint for the conflict.
axiosgunnar 5y ago
> The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. Interesting, do you have a link?
- jaclaz 5y ago
  I guess the reference is to this: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chechen-leader-killed https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chechen-le...
rasz 5y ago
Putin is not coming, so why do you presume Zalensky is going to show up in person?
vanusa 5y ago
The Russians assassinated the Chechen leader on his way to peace talks 26 years ago. Assassinated he was, but he wasn't en route to peace talks at the time.

stevespang 5y ago

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

Why would anyone agree to that when Russians are attacking Ukrainians from Belarus?

terafo 5y ago
It is possible that Russians understand that nobody would agree to such egregious conditions, and do this so they can claim that ukrainian "nazi" government is "refusing negotiations".
quickthrowman 5y ago
They wouldn’t, that’s the whole point of Russia demanding negotiations be held in Belarus. Russia doesn’t actually want to negotiate, they want to be able to blame Ukraine for not negotiating to strengthen their domestic case for war.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

maury91 5y ago

> If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed On my personal opinion this is another case of Russia making unacceptable requests ( bring our #1 target in a nation hostile to you ) and blame the other party when this doesn't happen

lawn 5y ago
It's pretty obvious tbh.
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  Because they don't care about fooling you ('the West'). It was done for internal consumption, as usual. I expect them to put the blame on Ukrainian diplomats in the evening news.
  - maury91 5y ago
    I believe it could be also an excuse to justify ( internally ) why the war is going so slow. "It is not that Ukrainians don't want to be saved and are fighting hard, it is because we want to give them opportunities for diplomacy and we stopped the hostility for a day"
- zx85wes 5y ago
  They'd need a flying DeLorean to make it. It's 3:24PM there now.
libertine 5y ago
They probably can't do much other than trying to keep this rhetoric, but the truth is that at the moment, and probably for the foreseeable future, Putin and the regime "word" lost any worth. Doing what ever pleases you after saying you're doing something, like saying you won't do something while preparing to do the opposite has consequences. Duplicity has consequences. It might work internally, or against smaller isolated countries (regrettably), which is great for dictators... Trust was shattered, even if we accuse the West of being naive - still - in diplomacy trust paramount. I don't see how Putin will set his feet back into this globalized world. Who would trust his word for anything? So if the goal was to completely isolate Russia, destroy it's importance in the global theater in a time of change, that was achieved.

upofadown 5y ago

What, they don't have email? What exactly is being proposed here? What would be the point of face to face negotiations? Since people are actively dying right now, why would you wait for people to be in the same spot?

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
I hope you aren't serious. Same reason why any important meeting is held face to face and not delegated to email. How do you verify who you are talking with? How do you make sure the communication isn't tampered with? From Russia's point of view how you make sure email with insane demands is not leaked?
- upofadown 5y ago
  I think for something like this they could afford the bother to have someone sign the emails. World leaders make pronouncements all the time and there is no problem with provenance. Everyone knows the issues and existing proposals/demands. You only have to cover whatever has changed. >From Russia's point of view how you make sure email with insane demands is not leaked? Any insane demands will be leaked by the other party. Nations can't have secret discussions that mean anything.
- twoxproblematic 5y ago

ukraineally 5y ago

China seems to have been blindsided on this war. They most likely were made aware of the republics but certainly didn't expect full invasion. On day 2, china demanded diplomatic talks, hosted in china. Russia refused. Said they could happen in their puppet belarus. Which is outrageous and a huge slap in the face to China. Russia saying they stand for peace is absolutely absurd. Everyone around the world knows it is Russia who is the aggressor. >"If the talks are rejected, the Ukrainian side shall bear all responsibility for bloodshed," Medinsky said. "But we remain here until 15:00 waiting for a response from the Ukrainian side." On the contrary. Russia bears ALL responsibility hence forth regardless of anything Russia ever says or does. >"We are waiting. Everyone is in Gomel waiting. If they come then there will be negotiations," Lukashenko Oh ya, I bet they are waiting. I bet China is on the brink of breaking their alliance. You must remember, China hates Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking The UK used to own Hong Kong, Portugal Macau. Those were rightfully returned to China. Russia still holds Chinese land. If you also look at it, China was going to uphold the right for these new republics to exist.Casting significant doubt on China's intention to invade Taiwan. I wrote here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30471021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30471021 about how Russian spies have infiltrated Canadian media. They pushed utter lies that Canadians are nazis. For example, https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... You will notice this Russian spy: https://globalnews.ca/author/rachel-gilmore/ https://globalnews.ca/author/rachel-gilmore/ stopped publishing quite abruptly. At exactly the same time the russian invasion was happening and the Canadian government getting wise. Did she escape back to Russia or did the RCMP pick her up? We may never know. We must also face the possibility that our perception of China has been manipulated by Russian spies. That China is actually our ally and Xi Jinping no longer believes in territorial borders or at least any need to move them. China's very long history has never been about expansion. The list of wars involving China is quite small.

programmer_dude 5y ago
>China's very long history has never been about expansion. The list of wars involving China is quite small. LOL. What has "long history" got to do with what the CCP is doing now?

0x38B 5y ago

President Zelenskiy wrote 40 minutes ago (1): "Results of my conversation with Alexander Lukashenko. We agreed that the Ukrainian delegation will meet with the Russian one without pre-conditions on the Ukraine-Belarus border near the Pripyat river. Alexander Lukashenko took personal responsibility for all planes, helicopters, and rockets on Belarusian territory staying grounded during our travel there, the talks, and the return of the Ukrainian delegation." 1: https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official/745 https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official/745

svilen_dobrev 5y ago
pfff. Even if any one believes the "will stay grounded" part, that's Belarus teritory.. The distances are minutes for fighter jets..

The_rationalist 5y ago

rasz 5y ago

Last time a president decided to join "peace talks" with russia they (Clinton helped!) tracked his sat phone and dropped missiles on his position. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_Dudayev#Death_and_leg...