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Germany announced weapons assistance just a few minutes ago: https://twitter.com/bundeskanzler/status/1497638225200001029 https://twitter.com/bundeskanzler/sta

Germany announced weapons assistance just a few minutes ago: https://twitter.com/bundeskanzler/status/1497638225200001029 https://twitter.com/bundeskanzler/status/1497638225200001029 Massive miscalculation by the looks of it.

belter 5y ago
The problem is that will get more dangerous the worst the war goes for Russia. There is talk Russia is willing to use termobaric weapons. "Russian thermobaric "vacuum bombs" launcher seen by CNN team in Ukraine" https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-26-22/h_0050ad4a0b55a2fdd9753d00b44efc40#:~:text=They%20are%20sometimes%20called%20%E2%80%9Cvacuum,according%20to%20Human%20Rights%20Watch https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news.... https://twitter.com/i/status/1497519335350452231 https://twitter.com/i/status/1497519335350452231 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q91yFP9E9Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q91yFP9E9Yg
- Pet_Ant 5y ago
  This seems phyrric. Russia will win this war but the lower and more barbaric it stoops, the weaker it seems.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
    This is an unwinnable war. The US and Russia could not even conquer Afghanistan - with a virtually non-existent army, and no allies to help Afghanistan. As Ukraine is showing - they have a strong, well organized military. Beside a lack of anti-bomber missiles (Patriots) - they have everything they need to defend themselves. They now have full support from almost the entire advanced world beside China and India. And it looks like they'll be getting some Patriot missiles within 24 hours. Russia doesn't even have partial support from anyone. The best they can get is China and India trying to stay neutral - and it looks like China is starting to side with the rest of the world, with reports it has blocked all banks from lending money to Russia.
    - srvmshr 5y ago
      As an Indian guy married to a Chinese, I am deeply ashamed of how our governments lack a spine to voice the morally correct opinion in time. (Such events might actually make my resolve firmer to acquire Japanese citizenship from my current PR status)
      - reducesuffering 5y ago
        Even worse, Chinese Foreign Minister rebuked a reporter that "it wasn't an invasion."
    - alephxyz 5y ago
      I can't even imagine how much worse Afghanistan would've been if the Taliban had access to modern antivehicle weaponry. Something like an NLAW or Javelin costs about 1/100 what a modern Russian tank costs and takes little training to use.
      - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
        Let us all be glad that - at least for now - it is several orders of magnitude cheaper to defend than to attack (beside crazy things like nuclear weapons). Example: stingers have 95% accuracy on jets - cost ~$20k. Jets cost $40m+. Tank cost $5m+. Javelins cost ~$180k. Patriot missiles cost $1m. Bombers can cost $500m+
      - MrRiddle 5y ago
        Well, they definitely have now.
    - belter 5y ago
      Do you have a reference for the Patriot missiles? I guess Russia could see that as another major escalation. Or do you mean Stinger?
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        I definitely heard on a radio report that Germany is giving Ukraine stinger missiles
- perihelions 5y ago
  There's talk Russia is willing to use nuclear weapons. Finland's foreign minster just floated the idea: https://yle.fi/news/3-12335297 https://yle.fi/news/3-12335297 ("FM Haavisto: Russia could be ready to use nuclear weapons")
  - d13 5y ago
    Putin is explicitly threatening the use of nuclear weapons. That’s what this means: “No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history”
    - aliswe 5y ago
      thats not explicit though!
      - belter 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov Maybe another Stanislav would polonium is tee a little bit....
    - belter 5y ago
      Maybe one of his Cooks is called Stanislav Petrov.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    If they do, how should the west respond? It is so over the line that we have to do something and yet we can't.
- nabla9 5y ago
  Thermobaric means that the explosion uses oxygen from the air and don't need to carry oxidizer. Thermobaric weapons are not that rare. They come in all shapes and sizes. Russia has thermobaric warheads for RPG-9's. The US has 40mm thermobaric grenades. TOS-1 or TOS-1A mentioned in the article are relative short range 3,500 m - 6,000 m. They destroy effectively areas of few hundred meters in diameter. But missiles are big and supply logistics needed is extensive.
  - belter 5y ago
    Not claiming they are rare, just that their use would bring the level of destruction to levels unthinkable.
    - nabla9 5y ago
      Not that different from normal field artillery.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  If they are going to indiscriminately bomb cities like in Chechnya and Syria world opinion will only go worse for them. Ukrainians are relatable to Westerners.
twa999 5y ago
this will be is a logistical nightmare and will take some time, days at least. also lol @ the #stinger hashtag
- justin66 5y ago
  > this will be is a logistical nightmare Stingers are manufactured in Germany. Logistically, they need to load some crates into a few trucks and drive about thirteen hours. The logistics of limited warfare in modern Europe is frighteningly straightforward. Is there some doubt that the Polish authorities will be more than happy to provide them with a police escort?
phkahler 5y ago
I get that nobody outside Ukraine wants to directly battle Russia, so supporting Ukraine with weapons makes sense. But it seems a little late...
- quantified 5y ago
  To arm them ahead of time would have appeared to justify Putin’s claims. That would have been a different kind of disaster. I don’t know why anyone thought he wasn’t going to do this, you don’t mass the army like that unless you’re going to use it. But it’s clear he’s just picking a fight for now reason this way.
  - ttyprintk 5y ago
    I agree but it’s not for no reason. If Ukrainians can pursue democracy and European values, so could Russians.
    - phkahler 5y ago
      >> I agree but it’s not for no reason. If Ukrainians can pursue democracy and European values, so could Russians. Fantasy outcome: Ukraine not only pushes Russia out, but takes back the regions Putin previously took from them. Russian citizens finally overthrow Putin and decide to put the whole empire back together - including Ukraine - with Volodymyr Zelenskyy as their leader. ;-)
password54321 5y ago
By involving more counties we are adding fuel to the fire. This is how you set up for a world war.
- dsabanin 5y ago
  You get a World War by not resisting Hitler as early as possible. We’re witnessing a historical bravery of Ukrainian people, left to fight the evil Putin’s empire by themselves. Stop being such cowards.
  - beefield 5y ago
    > We’re witnessing a historical bravery of Ukrainian people, This. So much this. My hat's off. Don't know if this is propaganda, but I do not care. Awesome regardless: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60532715 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60532715
    - belter 5y ago
      https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-chernihiv-russian-tanks-protest/31725154.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-chernihiv-russian-tanks-prot...
  - password54321 5y ago
    The big question is, how much bravery can we show before Putin starts going all in with bigger weapons? Personally I would rather be a coward and not have my country involved even if it may possibly just be delaying the inevitable for when there is no choice. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-putin-poised-unleash-terrifying-new-weapon-battle-kyiv/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-p...
    - torstenvl 5y ago
      If you choose dishonor over war, you will only end up with both, against a stronger enemy.
sorokod 5y ago
Making effective use of all this tech requires training and infrastructure. Ukraine may not have that anymore.

belter 5y ago

The problem is that will get more dangerous the worst the war goes for Russia. There is talk Russia is willing to use termobaric weapons. "Russian thermobaric "vacuum bombs" launcher seen by CNN team in Ukraine" https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-26-22/h_0050ad4a0b55a2fdd9753d00b44efc40#:~:text=They%20are%20sometimes%20called%20%E2%80%9Cvacuum,according%20to%20Human%20Rights%20Watch https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news.... https://twitter.com/i/status/1497519335350452231 https://twitter.com/i/status/1497519335350452231 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q91yFP9E9Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q91yFP9E9Yg

Pet_Ant 5y ago
This seems phyrric. Russia will win this war but the lower and more barbaric it stoops, the weaker it seems.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  This is an unwinnable war. The US and Russia could not even conquer Afghanistan - with a virtually non-existent army, and no allies to help Afghanistan. As Ukraine is showing - they have a strong, well organized military. Beside a lack of anti-bomber missiles (Patriots) - they have everything they need to defend themselves. They now have full support from almost the entire advanced world beside China and India. And it looks like they'll be getting some Patriot missiles within 24 hours. Russia doesn't even have partial support from anyone. The best they can get is China and India trying to stay neutral - and it looks like China is starting to side with the rest of the world, with reports it has blocked all banks from lending money to Russia.
  - srvmshr 5y ago
    As an Indian guy married to a Chinese, I am deeply ashamed of how our governments lack a spine to voice the morally correct opinion in time. (Such events might actually make my resolve firmer to acquire Japanese citizenship from my current PR status)
    - reducesuffering 5y ago
      Even worse, Chinese Foreign Minister rebuked a reporter that "it wasn't an invasion."
  - alephxyz 5y ago
    I can't even imagine how much worse Afghanistan would've been if the Taliban had access to modern antivehicle weaponry. Something like an NLAW or Javelin costs about 1/100 what a modern Russian tank costs and takes little training to use.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
      Let us all be glad that - at least for now - it is several orders of magnitude cheaper to defend than to attack (beside crazy things like nuclear weapons). Example: stingers have 95% accuracy on jets - cost ~$20k. Jets cost $40m+. Tank cost $5m+. Javelins cost ~$180k. Patriot missiles cost $1m. Bombers can cost $500m+
    - MrRiddle 5y ago
      Well, they definitely have now.
  - belter 5y ago
    Do you have a reference for the Patriot missiles? I guess Russia could see that as another major escalation. Or do you mean Stinger?
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      I definitely heard on a radio report that Germany is giving Ukraine stinger missiles
perihelions 5y ago
There's talk Russia is willing to use nuclear weapons. Finland's foreign minster just floated the idea: https://yle.fi/news/3-12335297 https://yle.fi/news/3-12335297 ("FM Haavisto: Russia could be ready to use nuclear weapons")
- d13 5y ago
  Putin is explicitly threatening the use of nuclear weapons. That’s what this means: “No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history”
  - aliswe 5y ago
    thats not explicit though!
    - belter 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov Maybe another Stanislav would polonium is tee a little bit....
  - belter 5y ago
    Maybe one of his Cooks is called Stanislav Petrov.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  If they do, how should the west respond? It is so over the line that we have to do something and yet we can't.
nabla9 5y ago
Thermobaric means that the explosion uses oxygen from the air and don't need to carry oxidizer. Thermobaric weapons are not that rare. They come in all shapes and sizes. Russia has thermobaric warheads for RPG-9's. The US has 40mm thermobaric grenades. TOS-1 or TOS-1A mentioned in the article are relative short range 3,500 m - 6,000 m. They destroy effectively areas of few hundred meters in diameter. But missiles are big and supply logistics needed is extensive.
- belter 5y ago
  Not claiming they are rare, just that their use would bring the level of destruction to levels unthinkable.
  - nabla9 5y ago
    Not that different from normal field artillery.
AniseAbyss 5y ago
If they are going to indiscriminately bomb cities like in Chechnya and Syria world opinion will only go worse for them. Ukrainians are relatable to Westerners.

twa999 5y ago

this will be is a logistical nightmare and will take some time, days at least. also lol @ the #stinger hashtag

justin66 5y ago
> this will be is a logistical nightmare Stingers are manufactured in Germany. Logistically, they need to load some crates into a few trucks and drive about thirteen hours. The logistics of limited warfare in modern Europe is frighteningly straightforward. Is there some doubt that the Polish authorities will be more than happy to provide them with a police escort?

phkahler 5y ago

I get that nobody outside Ukraine wants to directly battle Russia, so supporting Ukraine with weapons makes sense. But it seems a little late...

quantified 5y ago
To arm them ahead of time would have appeared to justify Putin’s claims. That would have been a different kind of disaster. I don’t know why anyone thought he wasn’t going to do this, you don’t mass the army like that unless you’re going to use it. But it’s clear he’s just picking a fight for now reason this way.
- ttyprintk 5y ago
  I agree but it’s not for no reason. If Ukrainians can pursue democracy and European values, so could Russians.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    >> I agree but it’s not for no reason. If Ukrainians can pursue democracy and European values, so could Russians. Fantasy outcome: Ukraine not only pushes Russia out, but takes back the regions Putin previously took from them. Russian citizens finally overthrow Putin and decide to put the whole empire back together - including Ukraine - with Volodymyr Zelenskyy as their leader. ;-)

password54321 5y ago

By involving more counties we are adding fuel to the fire. This is how you set up for a world war.

dsabanin 5y ago
You get a World War by not resisting Hitler as early as possible. We’re witnessing a historical bravery of Ukrainian people, left to fight the evil Putin’s empire by themselves. Stop being such cowards.
- beefield 5y ago
  > We’re witnessing a historical bravery of Ukrainian people, This. So much this. My hat's off. Don't know if this is propaganda, but I do not care. Awesome regardless: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60532715 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60532715
  - belter 5y ago
    https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-chernihiv-russian-tanks-protest/31725154.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-chernihiv-russian-tanks-prot...
- password54321 5y ago
  The big question is, how much bravery can we show before Putin starts going all in with bigger weapons? Personally I would rather be a coward and not have my country involved even if it may possibly just be delaying the inevitable for when there is no choice. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-putin-poised-unleash-terrifying-new-weapon-battle-kyiv/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-p...
  - torstenvl 5y ago
    If you choose dishonor over war, you will only end up with both, against a stronger enemy.

sorokod 5y ago

Making effective use of all this tech requires training and infrastructure. Ukraine may not have that anymore.