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The point of an auditor is to provide accountability, a person who can say "I took an honest look at these financial docs and they are a reasonable picture of t

The point of an auditor is to provide accountability, a person who can say "I took an honest look at these financial docs and they are a reasonable picture of this business". The person needs to be believable, so someone qualified who understands the technical points, but also someone who would raise the red flags if they existed. You can have that authority while being unable to answer silly exam questions, and you can lack it while scoring perfectly. What we don't want is a society where we think people are competent and disinterested based on how well they did on some test. That leads to people cramming for tests, cheating, and avoidance of difficult choices.

rinze 5y ago
> The point of an auditor is to provide accountability I always thought that the point was to be able to say "see, someone signed here and said everything was fine!" for a fee. You shop around until someone is able to provide that signature for a reasonable amount.
- michaelt 5y ago
  The theoretical purpose of auditors is to allow companies to prove things to the public, without proving them publicly. That might be a company proving to its shareholders that their accounts are in order, without publicly releasing every last deal and detail. If the accounts say Google's got a billion dollars in the bank, investors having someone check they have a bank account with a billion dollars in is basic common sense! The practical purpose of auditors is a lot less clear, because companies get to choose their own auditors, and nobody hires auditors with a reputation for being difficult...
- buran77 5y ago
  > "see, someone signed here and said everything was fine!" But that's fine. If you have a crack in your foundation you want to know about it, not to be forced to fix it or for the whole world to know about it. You can decide for yourself having the full knowledge of the situation what you need to do next and take responsibility for that decision. Or you can pretend you never knew and whatever happened is not your fault. This is the critical role of an auditor, to point out the reality so you have to be accountable for whatever comes next. And this is exactly why many companies pay for or hire junior/inexperienced auditors. So they can go through the motions without the accountability.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
yeah. currently involved in a decade+ struggle to get my auditor certificate. it is hard. the exam is "simple" in the sense you have to regurgitate answers from an answer bank and that is it but i am simply not capable of crossing that exam barrier. outside the exam? well i do work with people who have actually qualified their exams and its not like they have any more horns on their heads than i do. the people i work with specifically, their understanding is limited to how they could cram the exam. that's it. i don't know how that makes me feel. salty? probably. i have given a lot to this endeavour without an end in sight. by law that makes me unfit to be an auditor, oh well, exams count. funny how you become a professional "after" you finish theoretical exams like an auditor and if you do it by any means necessary, you are told you are a professional now. i am ranting at this point now. sorry
darkerside 5y ago
> someone who would raise the red flags if they existed The reason this is so scandalous is that a company whose differentiator is its integrity just demonstrated a gaping hole in that area. There is a conflict of interest in every audit that is sponsored by the organization being audited. How are we now supposed to believe the results of PwC audits that are favorable to the hand that has been feeding them when they've showed a willingness to compromise their principles for their own short term benefit.
Cazafr 5y ago
I'm an ex Big4 auditor and you're right. I know HN likes to bash these kinds of companies but they're full of highly competent people that are managed by idiots. These tests are bullshit internal things, think "Phishing awareness" with some stupid 20 question quiz on if you should open an email attachement or not. They're also working absolutely insane hours, especially during "busy season", and are expected to complete the training in their spare time or time off. It's usually tied to your bonus too, if you haven't done the yearly training you've worked for nothing. Anyone in their shoes would have looked for the answers to save 40 hours of bullshit training on top of an 80-100 hour work week.

rinze 5y ago

> The point of an auditor is to provide accountability I always thought that the point was to be able to say "see, someone signed here and said everything was fine!" for a fee. You shop around until someone is able to provide that signature for a reasonable amount.

michaelt 5y ago
The theoretical purpose of auditors is to allow companies to prove things to the public, without proving them publicly. That might be a company proving to its shareholders that their accounts are in order, without publicly releasing every last deal and detail. If the accounts say Google's got a billion dollars in the bank, investors having someone check they have a bank account with a billion dollars in is basic common sense! The practical purpose of auditors is a lot less clear, because companies get to choose their own auditors, and nobody hires auditors with a reputation for being difficult...
buran77 5y ago
> "see, someone signed here and said everything was fine!" But that's fine. If you have a crack in your foundation you want to know about it, not to be forced to fix it or for the whole world to know about it. You can decide for yourself having the full knowledge of the situation what you need to do next and take responsibility for that decision. Or you can pretend you never knew and whatever happened is not your fault. This is the critical role of an auditor, to point out the reality so you have to be accountable for whatever comes next. And this is exactly why many companies pay for or hire junior/inexperienced auditors. So they can go through the motions without the accountability.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

yeah. currently involved in a decade+ struggle to get my auditor certificate. it is hard. the exam is "simple" in the sense you have to regurgitate answers from an answer bank and that is it but i am simply not capable of crossing that exam barrier. outside the exam? well i do work with people who have actually qualified their exams and its not like they have any more horns on their heads than i do. the people i work with specifically, their understanding is limited to how they could cram the exam. that's it. i don't know how that makes me feel. salty? probably. i have given a lot to this endeavour without an end in sight. by law that makes me unfit to be an auditor, oh well, exams count. funny how you become a professional "after" you finish theoretical exams like an auditor and if you do it by any means necessary, you are told you are a professional now. i am ranting at this point now. sorry

darkerside 5y ago

> someone who would raise the red flags if they existed The reason this is so scandalous is that a company whose differentiator is its integrity just demonstrated a gaping hole in that area. There is a conflict of interest in every audit that is sponsored by the organization being audited. How are we now supposed to believe the results of PwC audits that are favorable to the hand that has been feeding them when they've showed a willingness to compromise their principles for their own short term benefit.

Cazafr 5y ago

I'm an ex Big4 auditor and you're right. I know HN likes to bash these kinds of companies but they're full of highly competent people that are managed by idiots. These tests are bullshit internal things, think "Phishing awareness" with some stupid 20 question quiz on if you should open an email attachement or not. They're also working absolutely insane hours, especially during "busy season", and are expected to complete the training in their spare time or time off. It's usually tied to your bonus too, if you haven't done the yearly training you've worked for nothing. Anyone in their shoes would have looked for the answers to save 40 hours of bullshit training on top of an 80-100 hour work week.