4 ms·

> Anything that works would be used by the oil and gas industry, and if they're not trying it, one suspects it might not be working. To flip that around: this

by derefr 5y ago

> Anything that works would be used by the oil and gas industry, and if they're not trying it, one suspects it might not be working. To flip that around: this would imply that the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches to deep hole boring would be the ones that destroy the economic value of any oil-and-gas in the ground, no? Ones that make the ground radioactive, perhaps. Or that would set any potential oil fields on fire, or react them away, or irrevocably mix a combustion-inhibiting azeotropic solvent into them.

WJW 5y ago
> this would imply that the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches to deep hole boring would be the ones that destroy the economic value of any oil-and-gas in the ground, That is only one explanation to why a technology would be among the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches. There are many others, such as: - It does not work at all. - It is more expensive than traditional methods - It is illegal in some way - It is incompatible with the rest of oil&gas processing.
- XorNot 5y ago
  Option C: it doesn't solve enough problems for oil and gas to have been worth pursuing compared to iterative improvements to existing systems. Whereas for geothermal, conventional drilling isn't useful enough for it.
  - peterburkimsher 5y ago
    Oil companies sell finite fuel for energy to people in cars, on the move. Geothermal heating provides unlimited fuel for people in houses, staying still. The technology is similar, and it's boring ;-) The market is different. This is an opportunity for entrepreneurs to hire expert drilling engineers out of the oil industry!
    - ijidak 5y ago
      > Geothermal heating provides unlimited fuel for people in houses, staying still This sounds like the beginning of a great sci-fi novel. A future where Earth's core has cooled because of excess draws to power humanity. Now, the planet is losing it's magnetic field. To save humanity, humans need to re-heat the core, build biospheres, or leave the planet.
      - blibble 5y ago
        sounds similar to the plot of The Core (it was not great)
        kbenson 5y ago
        It's surprising how often that movie comes up, especially given how it's often accompanied by a note that it's not good. I suspect it's hit a pseudo-cult classic film status. The last few times I've seen it mentioned I've had the desire to seek it out and watch it again since I only remember bits and pieces.
        marcosdumay 5y ago
        That's what you get when you do a lot of publicity for a movie that is not good.
      - pmoriarty 5y ago
        "A future where Earth's core has cooled because of excess draws to power humanity." Has anyone done the napkin math for how long that would take?
        marcosdumay 5y ago
        We basically can not accelerate the process. Almost all the resistance to heat movement is on layers we can not reach at all.
        peterburkimsher 5y ago
semi-extrinsic 5y ago
Don't worry, we were doing nuclear fracking back in the days. Everything that could work has been tried for oil and gas exploration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gasbuggy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gasbuggy Regarding drilling operations that destroy value: you're forgetting that drilling is 1D while oil fields are 3D (technically quasi-2D with horizontal dimensions 100x to 1000x larger than vertical dimensions). If your drilling messes up everything in a 10 meter radius from the drill string, you don't care.
- joshuacc 5y ago
  Why do you think that drilling is one dimensional? Drilling at an angle, and even at gradually changing angles is common.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    Technically embedded in that case, as your drill line can be represented (often) by a single parameterized function.
    - semi-extrinsic 5y ago
      Exactly. Unless you plan to zizag around all over the place, most of the reservoir won't be in the near-well region.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  > Don't worry, we were doing nuclear fracking back in the days. Everything that could work has been tried for oil and gas exploration. Likewise, everything that conceivably could be done with nuclear was tried or at least designed for a while there - lighting watches with radium, digging canals with nukes, space travel by continuously exploding nukes behind you... good times. (Horrifying times, but w/e;])
  - dhosek 5y ago
    Not to mention https://gajitz.com/1950s-radioactive-science-kit-most-dangerous-toy-ever/ https://gajitz.com/1950s-radioactive-science-kit-most-danger...
hedora 5y ago
I've long wanted to put some money into an eco terror fund. It would buy controlling interests in all the companies that make some critical, specialized and heavily patented piece of modern internal combustion engines or coal turbines. Then, it'd wreck the factories, and patent troll everyone else into not producing. Money is speech, and that would be protected political speech, right? :-)
- hedora 5y ago
  Once it had demonstrated enough success to instill fear in the hearts of wall street bankers, I think it could start turning a profit. It would announce targets ahead of time, tanking the stock. On the way down, the companies would reinvest the money they make selling themselves for parts back into the fund.
  - andrewflnr 5y ago
    You're not going to tank a stock by publicly telling people you're going to buy a bunch of it. A bunch of people will try to get in front of you and bid you up.
- blibble 5y ago
  that will result in those devices will be manufactured by the Chinese instead, and them then having a near monopoly
  - mdaniel 5y ago
    Honest question: if something is patented, sure China could manufacture it, but wouldn't patent protection prohibit importing the counterfeit good into the USA? I've never actually thought about whether patent protection covered just the sale, or the manufacture, or exactly what, so thanks for bringing that nuance to my attention!
- InDemoVeritas 5y ago
  As my wise auntie says,”You can’t see clearly through the bottom of a pint glass.” Are you not drunk on energy? Warm or cool at will, well fed and clothed, able to travel and communicate? There’s no collecting if you bet on the apocalypse. <\wisdomnag>

by derefr 5y ago

WJW 5y ago

> this would imply that the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches to deep hole boring would be the ones that destroy the economic value of any oil-and-gas in the ground, That is only one explanation to why a technology would be among the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches. There are many others, such as: - It does not work at all. - It is more expensive than traditional methods - It is illegal in some way - It is incompatible with the rest of oil&gas processing.

XorNot 5y ago
Option C: it doesn't solve enough problems for oil and gas to have been worth pursuing compared to iterative improvements to existing systems. Whereas for geothermal, conventional drilling isn't useful enough for it.
- peterburkimsher 5y ago
  Oil companies sell finite fuel for energy to people in cars, on the move. Geothermal heating provides unlimited fuel for people in houses, staying still. The technology is similar, and it's boring ;-) The market is different. This is an opportunity for entrepreneurs to hire expert drilling engineers out of the oil industry!
  - ijidak 5y ago
    > Geothermal heating provides unlimited fuel for people in houses, staying still This sounds like the beginning of a great sci-fi novel. A future where Earth's core has cooled because of excess draws to power humanity. Now, the planet is losing it's magnetic field. To save humanity, humans need to re-heat the core, build biospheres, or leave the planet.
    - blibble 5y ago
      sounds similar to the plot of The Core (it was not great)
      - kbenson 5y ago
        It's surprising how often that movie comes up, especially given how it's often accompanied by a note that it's not good. I suspect it's hit a pseudo-cult classic film status. The last few times I've seen it mentioned I've had the desire to seek it out and watch it again since I only remember bits and pieces.
        marcosdumay 5y ago
        That's what you get when you do a lot of publicity for a movie that is not good.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "A future where Earth's core has cooled because of excess draws to power humanity." Has anyone done the napkin math for how long that would take?
      - marcosdumay 5y ago
        We basically can not accelerate the process. Almost all the resistance to heat movement is on layers we can not reach at all.
      - peterburkimsher 5y ago

semi-extrinsic 5y ago

Don't worry, we were doing nuclear fracking back in the days. Everything that could work has been tried for oil and gas exploration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gasbuggy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gasbuggy Regarding drilling operations that destroy value: you're forgetting that drilling is 1D while oil fields are 3D (technically quasi-2D with horizontal dimensions 100x to 1000x larger than vertical dimensions). If your drilling messes up everything in a 10 meter radius from the drill string, you don't care.

joshuacc 5y ago
Why do you think that drilling is one dimensional? Drilling at an angle, and even at gradually changing angles is common.
- tomrod 5y ago
  Technically embedded in that case, as your drill line can be represented (often) by a single parameterized function.
  - semi-extrinsic 5y ago
    Exactly. Unless you plan to zizag around all over the place, most of the reservoir won't be in the near-well region.
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
> Don't worry, we were doing nuclear fracking back in the days. Everything that could work has been tried for oil and gas exploration. Likewise, everything that conceivably could be done with nuclear was tried or at least designed for a while there - lighting watches with radium, digging canals with nukes, space travel by continuously exploding nukes behind you... good times. (Horrifying times, but w/e;])
- dhosek 5y ago
  Not to mention https://gajitz.com/1950s-radioactive-science-kit-most-dangerous-toy-ever/ https://gajitz.com/1950s-radioactive-science-kit-most-danger...

hedora 5y ago

I've long wanted to put some money into an eco terror fund. It would buy controlling interests in all the companies that make some critical, specialized and heavily patented piece of modern internal combustion engines or coal turbines. Then, it'd wreck the factories, and patent troll everyone else into not producing. Money is speech, and that would be protected political speech, right? :-)

hedora 5y ago
Once it had demonstrated enough success to instill fear in the hearts of wall street bankers, I think it could start turning a profit. It would announce targets ahead of time, tanking the stock. On the way down, the companies would reinvest the money they make selling themselves for parts back into the fund.
- andrewflnr 5y ago
  You're not going to tank a stock by publicly telling people you're going to buy a bunch of it. A bunch of people will try to get in front of you and bid you up.
blibble 5y ago
that will result in those devices will be manufactured by the Chinese instead, and them then having a near monopoly
- mdaniel 5y ago
  Honest question: if something is patented, sure China could manufacture it, but wouldn't patent protection prohibit importing the counterfeit good into the USA? I've never actually thought about whether patent protection covered just the sale, or the manufacture, or exactly what, so thanks for bringing that nuance to my attention!
InDemoVeritas 5y ago
As my wise auntie says,”You can’t see clearly through the bottom of a pint glass.” Are you not drunk on energy? Warm or cool at will, well fed and clothed, able to travel and communicate? There’s no collecting if you bet on the apocalypse. <\wisdomnag>