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>Will border guards fire on civilians and commit mass murder to keep them out? There is no other option... If let in the world pop increases, if not the world p

>Will border guards fire on civilians and commit mass murder to keep them out? There is no other option... If let in the world pop increases, if not the world pop decreases. We are in a race trying to continuously improve technologically to make up for the very same problems caused by technology. Perhaps mass death events which we defeated in recent years are precisely what is needed for a "correction" in our global hubris. Of course wasteful consumerism in the first world should also be corrected during this period, and hopefully for longer afterwards. As a final thought, although I know it is a false equivalency in many ways, consider the idea that the mass of potential migrants will be looked upon by some countries in the way that Ukraine currently views Russia, the self determination of Ukrainians have put them directly opposed to the Russian invasion, so for many (and likely the majority) of Ukrainians there is no other option but to fire back and employ strict measures.

tsol 5y ago
>There is no other option... If let in the world pop increases, if not the world pop decreases. Interesting you bring that up. Population in European countries isn't even at replacement levels. They actually need immigrants to keep their economies from collapsing on retirees. Making statements based on the world population as a whole seems irrelevant, China and India play a huge part in the world population increase yet they have no relation to this. >Perhaps mass death events which we defeated in recent years are precisely what is needed for a "correction" in our global hubris. And those mass death events, of course, should involve immigrants and not Europeans? Or, you? These conversations about population control always seem to trend in the same direction.. the same people who hate overpopulation of humans never want to start the solution with their own families.
- nradov 5y ago
  Populations in most European countries are set to decline, but do they really need immigrants? A lot of Europeans think that letting in more impoverished, low-skilled immigrants would actually accelerate economic collapse rather than preventing it. EU youth unemployment is already relatively high so clearly they don't have a labor shortage.
- sneedandchuck 5y ago
  >Population in European countries isn't even at replacement levels. They actually need immigrants to keep their economies from collapsing on retirees. I am under the impression that there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that cannot even maintain it's own population, especially when you consider that they are already utilizing immigration to some extent. For this reason I doubt the answer is more immigration, after all, what will become of the immigrants children who then produce below replacement rate? Will we simply keep pushing the problem one generation down the line? Short term economic downturn and a large elderly population may be part of a larger cycle which would then allow for a rapid turnaround in population growth. Whether this is through immigration or native growth is anyone's guess. >And those mass death events, of course, should involve immigrants and not Europeans? Or, you? These conversations about population control always seem to trend in the same direction.. the same people who hate overpopulation of humans never want to start the solution with their own families. The mass death events affect whoever they affect, I am not blaming people for the place or situation they are born in, nor do I "hate" overpopulation, and indeed you are right to point out that my own self preservation is a part of the overpopulation problem, in the end I intend to do what is best for myself, as would anyone else, I just naively have some optimism about how this may correct itself in the long term, as opposed to the worst case scenario which is total extinction.
- sneedandchuck 5y ago
  Too add one more thing to think about: If we agree on the brutal realism of humanities selfishness and us vs them mentality. Consider why Europe has let in so many low skilled immigrants, when in theory many of these low skilled jobs may be replaced by automation in the coming years. My only guess for why this is is that Europe perceives automation to be farther away and requires stop gaps, although this still would not fix the root issue of below replacement rate births, and I'm not sure if automation would either.

tsol 5y ago

>There is no other option... If let in the world pop increases, if not the world pop decreases. Interesting you bring that up. Population in European countries isn't even at replacement levels. They actually need immigrants to keep their economies from collapsing on retirees. Making statements based on the world population as a whole seems irrelevant, China and India play a huge part in the world population increase yet they have no relation to this. >Perhaps mass death events which we defeated in recent years are precisely what is needed for a "correction" in our global hubris. And those mass death events, of course, should involve immigrants and not Europeans? Or, you? These conversations about population control always seem to trend in the same direction.. the same people who hate overpopulation of humans never want to start the solution with their own families.

nradov 5y ago
Populations in most European countries are set to decline, but do they really need immigrants? A lot of Europeans think that letting in more impoverished, low-skilled immigrants would actually accelerate economic collapse rather than preventing it. EU youth unemployment is already relatively high so clearly they don't have a labor shortage.
sneedandchuck 5y ago
>Population in European countries isn't even at replacement levels. They actually need immigrants to keep their economies from collapsing on retirees. I am under the impression that there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that cannot even maintain it's own population, especially when you consider that they are already utilizing immigration to some extent. For this reason I doubt the answer is more immigration, after all, what will become of the immigrants children who then produce below replacement rate? Will we simply keep pushing the problem one generation down the line? Short term economic downturn and a large elderly population may be part of a larger cycle which would then allow for a rapid turnaround in population growth. Whether this is through immigration or native growth is anyone's guess. >And those mass death events, of course, should involve immigrants and not Europeans? Or, you? These conversations about population control always seem to trend in the same direction.. the same people who hate overpopulation of humans never want to start the solution with their own families. The mass death events affect whoever they affect, I am not blaming people for the place or situation they are born in, nor do I "hate" overpopulation, and indeed you are right to point out that my own self preservation is a part of the overpopulation problem, in the end I intend to do what is best for myself, as would anyone else, I just naively have some optimism about how this may correct itself in the long term, as opposed to the worst case scenario which is total extinction.
sneedandchuck 5y ago
Too add one more thing to think about: If we agree on the brutal realism of humanities selfishness and us vs them mentality. Consider why Europe has let in so many low skilled immigrants, when in theory many of these low skilled jobs may be replaced by automation in the coming years. My only guess for why this is is that Europe perceives automation to be farther away and requires stop gaps, although this still would not fix the root issue of below replacement rate births, and I'm not sure if automation would either.