7 ms·

Factorio Friday Facts: Steam Deck, Ghost bugs, Docs improvements

90 points by picture 5y ago

Jyaif 5y ago
> even though we never take part in sales or bundles That's one reason I didn't hesitate to purchase it.
- WithinReason 5y ago
  That's the reason I never purchased it
  - marcofiset 5y ago
    You are missing out. This game is worth way more than what it sells for.
  - atlantas 5y ago
    Why? It's already arguably underpriced at $30.
    - WithinReason 5y ago
      I never before paid this much for a game
    - lvass 5y ago
      I paid around $10 in brazilian Steam.
  - donpott 5y ago
    This thread caused me to look up why they don't do sales. I was a bit frustrated at first; but I must say, after reading their rationale, that now I'm kinda convinced. To quote one of the Factorio mods/staff: > It isn't about visibility or sales, its about respecting the players who have already purchased the game. We don't want to reward the people who hold off on buying the game, the game is a price we find reasonable, and this is the deal. If you think it is priced too high, then it is your choice to not purchase, and we hope that with enough time, and extra development, we will be able to convince you of its value. Sources: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626 https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140 https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/8stbnl/psa_factorio_is_getting_a_0_discount_for_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/8stbnl/psa_factor...
    - Gareth321 5y ago
      I don't buy it. These developers don't discount because they don't have to. They're not doing it out of some altruistic sense of duty to not "reward people who hold off." That's silly and I honestly can't believe that you believe that.
- fossebooker 5y ago
  Years ago, I asked on the forums[0] if they'd have it on GOG since I wanted a DRM Free copy that I could pull updates from. They said, essentially, "not in the near future" so I bought it on a humblebundle ... I got a Steam key though. A few weeks later it came out on GOG and I contacted about getting a key and they said, just buy it again. I also haven't seen it on GOG-connect to make it available to Steam key holders. So my experience definitely conflicts with their "early purchaser" customer-appreciation rationale for this. [0]: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=189466#p189466 https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=189466#p189466
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    Not that Wube Software handled this well, but you're better off not using GOG Galaxy for updates. It's had a 0-day privilege escalation vulnerability for over two years. GOG tried to pull a fast one on the security researcher who reported it and has downplayed the severity of the issue. They've left their customers vulnerable for so long that their incompetence is effectively indistinguishable from malice. https://wccftech.com/gog-has-had-a-severe-internal-vulnerability-problem-for-nearly-2-years/ https://wccftech.com/gog-has-had-a-severe-internal-vulnerabi...
    - fossebooker 5y ago
      Thanks for the info and yeah, this adds another brick to the GOG pile of shame unfortunately. GOG has been very lethargic to the point of straight-up dishonesty regarding their plan for Linux support for games, galaxy and their downloader. Their rollout of Galaxy has been panned and definition of what qualifies as DRM-free has been eroded over time. I understand the disparity of resources, but steam has done much more lately to embrace Linux and their community than GOG and gaping security holes is just unacceptable. A lot has changed since 2016.
ddtaylor 5y ago
Early when the Steam Deck was revealed they showed a promotional image with Factorio being played on it. It made me think that, yeah, the game does run great on Linux and I'm sure the console can handle it, but would you really want to play with that kind of an input device? I wasn't thinking about it much and a few weeks later I was playing Factorio and noticed how atrocious doing half the things I was doing would be with a controller-like interface.
- chucky_z 5y ago
  Steam Deck has the little "pads" from the Steam Controller, those make playing games with mouse-based controls a joy with a handheld device (with some adjustment period). They show this in the video! I actually almost wish the initial Steam Controller had these flat pads instead of the concave circles, it looks like it's going to be a straight up improvement.
  - colpabar 5y ago
    Have you used them though? I have two steam controllers and the "mouse circles" are pretty finicky. I'm sure the pads on the deck will be better, but I still doubt they will be precise enough for a game like factorio. I hope I'm wrong - I LOVE factorio and will definitely start a new save when the deck comes out. But even playing on my macbook touchpad, I wished I had a real mouse.
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      Steam Controllers are my primary controllers. Precision is adjustable. They're super effective, in my opinion. From the sounds of it, you just prefer mice. But there's nothing finicky about them.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      For all the problems the Steam controller had, trackpad precision was the one thing I never really heard people complain about. For this sort of game, I think it would be a very effective compromise to get it working on-the-go. Of course, it's still just a computer at the end of the day. If you want to pair a Bluetooth mouse and play that way, that's your prerogative; I imagine that most people would be contented to use the touchpads out of convenience though.
castratikron 5y ago
Seems natural to lock the cursor to the map grid (think: Advance Wars). But that is probably easier said than done.
- DizzyDoo 5y ago
  A naive grid-lock would not quite be good enough for Factorio. Yes, there is a grid, but there's also a grid within that grid, if you mine a rock for instance there will be four pieces of rock lying within that one grid cell, and perhaps you want to pick up just one of them. Then there's combat which doesn't take place on the grid, sometimes you want to shoot a shell or a rocket between a few biters which don't neatly fit in any one cell, and they're moving quite quickly that you need a mouse pointer's freedom you shoot where you want. It's an interesting problem, I'm looking forward to how they approach the proper controller support later in the year. I suspect Keyboard + Mouse will always be the most comfortable way to play though.
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    Terraria gets around this with a dual mode aiming system. Holding the button to mine without holding a direction methodically selects each nearby mineable tile in your field of view one by one, but holding the joystick to aim lets you target freely.
jugg1es 5y ago
Some of the input interactions in Factorio are hard enough even with a mouse, particularly if you are trying to find an item to build that you haven't built since early-game. It's hard to imagine any sort of controller-based input working without significant changes to the UI.
- Duralias 5y ago
  That is where the trackpads come in, with a bit of practice they can replace the need for a mouse in any game, be it strategy or fps. Replacing the keyboard isn't as easy though.
  - eckmLJE 5y ago
    I was hopeful the track pad on the steam controller could replace a mouse for anything requiring fast and precise aim/controlling (FPS/RTS), but I was sadly disappointed. For a casual or non-real-time gaming, sure. But if you are trying to perform, nothing yet compares to a mouse. I would love some new controller you could use from the couch that competes with the mouse. Maybe some future motion controllers will get there.
    - jamesgeck0 5y ago
      I played a fair amount of Overwatch on the old Steam Controller with a combination of touchpad and gyroscope controls. Touchpad for wide sweeping movements and gyro for fine tuning the aim. It's not quite as accurate as a mouse, and it does take some getting used to, but I found I was much more competitive with it than I was with a regular gamepad, especially when playing games like Overwatch that don't support aim-assist on controllers. For slower strategy games, using the left touchpad for fast/imprecise mouse movement (or map movement) and the right touchpad for slow/fine tuned mouse movement is also decent. I don't know that I'd want to play an RTS that way, though.
    - Duralias 5y ago
      It definitely takes time to learn, but a few months of regular use and I believe I could get just as good with my steam controller/Steam Deck as with a mouse. However, I am certainly not a great fps player so the needed skill to catch up isn't as much as it might be for you. But I do believe that if you properly learn flick stick then you could probably get quite far, with less effort.
willis936 5y ago
The Steam Deck looks pretty cool, but I recently starting using an existing Valve product that nullifies most use cases for me: Steam Link. If you want a Steam Deck you should first try Steam Link. If it doesn't meet your needs (gaming requiring internet, mobile internet adding too much latency), then the Steam Deck becomes attractive. I hadn't considered this when evaluating the value of the Steam Deck and I suspect most others haven't either (judging from the lack of Steam Link coverage).
- thesandlord 5y ago
  I can see a little overlap between the two, but how are they competing with each other? With Link, you need a gaming PC running 24/7, and then you need another device and a controller to go with it. The Deck is all in one. It's like Stadia vs a Nintendo Switch. Overlapping for sure, but pretty different overall.
  - willis936 5y ago
    If you already use Steam then you already have a PC and according to the steam hardware survey you very likely have a more powerful GPU than what is in the steam deck. Nearly everyone has a smartphone and video streaming box on a TV. So to get all the way there you need a controller. Stadia vs. Switch is apt, except with negligible latency in the home (TV sharing is a common issue in couples/families today) and without needing to pay a subscription for things you own. Also, the graphics quality is going to be much better than what Stadia or Deck can deliver if you use Link with any decent gaming rig. Also I don't invite any google venture into my life because it's spyware and vaporware. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
    - kobalsky 5y ago
      > If you already use Steam then you already have a PC that's probably not their target demographic.
      - 5y ago
CGamesPlay 5y ago
Is there any reason to make a line of inserters instead of using belts?
- dhagz 5y ago
  Only reason I have is if you're doing a no-belts run.
- scrumbledober 5y ago
  not a whole line like that, but there are some situations where you'd want two of them spaced that way and it doesn't really make sense to put a belt or chest in between them. I'd assume the image was mostly just to illustrate that that layout could be disrupted with a ghost.
- Uily 5y ago
  burner-inserter loops aren't a bad way to dispose of wooden power poles after refactoring your early base. I usually just set up a logistics chest to request some and then feed them into the burner inserter loop.
- omnipath 5y ago
  You're out of belts.
  - Buttons840 5y ago
    I can tell you've made some quality spaghetti in your time
justsid 5y ago
I too have had a Steam Deck dev kit since pretty early on and have put an ungodly amount of time into it on there. It works really well, like the article already mentioned. Steam Input set up is pretty easy and carries you all of the way through the game. Actually, to completely side step Factorio, Steam Input is an amazing tool on the Deck. It makes it incredibly easy to coerce just about any game out there to play ball with the Deck controller scheme. Super pumped for the device to come out into general hands now
croes 5y ago
OT: is the link at the top for donations for the Ukrainian red cross legit? https://donate.redcrossredcrescent.org/ua/donate/~my-donation https://donate.redcrossredcrescent.org/ua/donate/~my-donatio... because the ifrc website has also campaign for Ukraine https://donation.ifrc.org/?campaign=e8952a8a-5096-ec11-a2db-005056010027 https://donation.ifrc.org/?campaign=e8952a8a-5096-ec11-a2db-...
- proto_lambda 5y ago
  Huh, that is a bit suspect. https://redcrossredcrescent.org/ https://redcrossredcrescent.org/ refuses connection, the HTTP version just redirects to the IFRC homepage. The only backlink to that domain I can find is this tweet, and I have no idea if the twitter account is legt: https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine/status/1496927821616320512 https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine/status/14969278216163205...
patmcc 5y ago
I enjoy Factorio, I think it's a lovely game, and I'd be happy to support the creators for that alone. But what really sets them apart is these regular Friday blog posts - being willing to include the community in what's happening in the business, development, documentation, modding, etc. of the game is so refreshing. I love it. I'll be buying the expansion on their word alone that it's ready and for sale. If they develop another game I'll buy that too.

90 points by picture 5y ago

Jyaif 5y ago

> even though we never take part in sales or bundles That's one reason I didn't hesitate to purchase it.

WithinReason 5y ago
That's the reason I never purchased it
- marcofiset 5y ago
  You are missing out. This game is worth way more than what it sells for.
- atlantas 5y ago
  Why? It's already arguably underpriced at $30.
  - WithinReason 5y ago
    I never before paid this much for a game
  - lvass 5y ago
    I paid around $10 in brazilian Steam.
- donpott 5y ago
  This thread caused me to look up why they don't do sales. I was a bit frustrated at first; but I must say, after reading their rationale, that now I'm kinda convinced. To quote one of the Factorio mods/staff: > It isn't about visibility or sales, its about respecting the players who have already purchased the game. We don't want to reward the people who hold off on buying the game, the game is a price we find reasonable, and this is the deal. If you think it is priced too high, then it is your choice to not purchase, and we hope that with enough time, and extra development, we will be able to convince you of its value. Sources: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626 https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140 https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140 https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/8stbnl/psa_factorio_is_getting_a_0_discount_for_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/8stbnl/psa_factor...
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    I don't buy it. These developers don't discount because they don't have to. They're not doing it out of some altruistic sense of duty to not "reward people who hold off." That's silly and I honestly can't believe that you believe that.
fossebooker 5y ago
Years ago, I asked on the forums[0] if they'd have it on GOG since I wanted a DRM Free copy that I could pull updates from. They said, essentially, "not in the near future" so I bought it on a humblebundle ... I got a Steam key though. A few weeks later it came out on GOG and I contacted about getting a key and they said, just buy it again. I also haven't seen it on GOG-connect to make it available to Steam key holders. So my experience definitely conflicts with their "early purchaser" customer-appreciation rationale for this. [0]: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=189466#p189466 https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=189466#p189466
- jamesgeck0 5y ago
  Not that Wube Software handled this well, but you're better off not using GOG Galaxy for updates. It's had a 0-day privilege escalation vulnerability for over two years. GOG tried to pull a fast one on the security researcher who reported it and has downplayed the severity of the issue. They've left their customers vulnerable for so long that their incompetence is effectively indistinguishable from malice. https://wccftech.com/gog-has-had-a-severe-internal-vulnerability-problem-for-nearly-2-years/ https://wccftech.com/gog-has-had-a-severe-internal-vulnerabi...
  - fossebooker 5y ago
    Thanks for the info and yeah, this adds another brick to the GOG pile of shame unfortunately. GOG has been very lethargic to the point of straight-up dishonesty regarding their plan for Linux support for games, galaxy and their downloader. Their rollout of Galaxy has been panned and definition of what qualifies as DRM-free has been eroded over time. I understand the disparity of resources, but steam has done much more lately to embrace Linux and their community than GOG and gaping security holes is just unacceptable. A lot has changed since 2016.

ddtaylor 5y ago

Early when the Steam Deck was revealed they showed a promotional image with Factorio being played on it. It made me think that, yeah, the game does run great on Linux and I'm sure the console can handle it, but would you really want to play with that kind of an input device? I wasn't thinking about it much and a few weeks later I was playing Factorio and noticed how atrocious doing half the things I was doing would be with a controller-like interface.

chucky_z 5y ago
Steam Deck has the little "pads" from the Steam Controller, those make playing games with mouse-based controls a joy with a handheld device (with some adjustment period). They show this in the video! I actually almost wish the initial Steam Controller had these flat pads instead of the concave circles, it looks like it's going to be a straight up improvement.
- colpabar 5y ago
  Have you used them though? I have two steam controllers and the "mouse circles" are pretty finicky. I'm sure the pads on the deck will be better, but I still doubt they will be precise enough for a game like factorio. I hope I'm wrong - I LOVE factorio and will definitely start a new save when the deck comes out. But even playing on my macbook touchpad, I wished I had a real mouse.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Steam Controllers are my primary controllers. Precision is adjustable. They're super effective, in my opinion. From the sounds of it, you just prefer mice. But there's nothing finicky about them.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    For all the problems the Steam controller had, trackpad precision was the one thing I never really heard people complain about. For this sort of game, I think it would be a very effective compromise to get it working on-the-go. Of course, it's still just a computer at the end of the day. If you want to pair a Bluetooth mouse and play that way, that's your prerogative; I imagine that most people would be contented to use the touchpads out of convenience though.

castratikron 5y ago

Seems natural to lock the cursor to the map grid (think: Advance Wars). But that is probably easier said than done.

DizzyDoo 5y ago
A naive grid-lock would not quite be good enough for Factorio. Yes, there is a grid, but there's also a grid within that grid, if you mine a rock for instance there will be four pieces of rock lying within that one grid cell, and perhaps you want to pick up just one of them. Then there's combat which doesn't take place on the grid, sometimes you want to shoot a shell or a rocket between a few biters which don't neatly fit in any one cell, and they're moving quite quickly that you need a mouse pointer's freedom you shoot where you want. It's an interesting problem, I'm looking forward to how they approach the proper controller support later in the year. I suspect Keyboard + Mouse will always be the most comfortable way to play though.
- jamesgeck0 5y ago
  Terraria gets around this with a dual mode aiming system. Holding the button to mine without holding a direction methodically selects each nearby mineable tile in your field of view one by one, but holding the joystick to aim lets you target freely.

jugg1es 5y ago

Some of the input interactions in Factorio are hard enough even with a mouse, particularly if you are trying to find an item to build that you haven't built since early-game. It's hard to imagine any sort of controller-based input working without significant changes to the UI.

Duralias 5y ago
That is where the trackpads come in, with a bit of practice they can replace the need for a mouse in any game, be it strategy or fps. Replacing the keyboard isn't as easy though.
- eckmLJE 5y ago
  I was hopeful the track pad on the steam controller could replace a mouse for anything requiring fast and precise aim/controlling (FPS/RTS), but I was sadly disappointed. For a casual or non-real-time gaming, sure. But if you are trying to perform, nothing yet compares to a mouse. I would love some new controller you could use from the couch that competes with the mouse. Maybe some future motion controllers will get there.
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    I played a fair amount of Overwatch on the old Steam Controller with a combination of touchpad and gyroscope controls. Touchpad for wide sweeping movements and gyro for fine tuning the aim. It's not quite as accurate as a mouse, and it does take some getting used to, but I found I was much more competitive with it than I was with a regular gamepad, especially when playing games like Overwatch that don't support aim-assist on controllers. For slower strategy games, using the left touchpad for fast/imprecise mouse movement (or map movement) and the right touchpad for slow/fine tuned mouse movement is also decent. I don't know that I'd want to play an RTS that way, though.
  - Duralias 5y ago
    It definitely takes time to learn, but a few months of regular use and I believe I could get just as good with my steam controller/Steam Deck as with a mouse. However, I am certainly not a great fps player so the needed skill to catch up isn't as much as it might be for you. But I do believe that if you properly learn flick stick then you could probably get quite far, with less effort.

willis936 5y ago

The Steam Deck looks pretty cool, but I recently starting using an existing Valve product that nullifies most use cases for me: Steam Link. If you want a Steam Deck you should first try Steam Link. If it doesn't meet your needs (gaming requiring internet, mobile internet adding too much latency), then the Steam Deck becomes attractive. I hadn't considered this when evaluating the value of the Steam Deck and I suspect most others haven't either (judging from the lack of Steam Link coverage).

thesandlord 5y ago
I can see a little overlap between the two, but how are they competing with each other? With Link, you need a gaming PC running 24/7, and then you need another device and a controller to go with it. The Deck is all in one. It's like Stadia vs a Nintendo Switch. Overlapping for sure, but pretty different overall.
- willis936 5y ago
  If you already use Steam then you already have a PC and according to the steam hardware survey you very likely have a more powerful GPU than what is in the steam deck. Nearly everyone has a smartphone and video streaming box on a TV. So to get all the way there you need a controller. Stadia vs. Switch is apt, except with negligible latency in the home (TV sharing is a common issue in couples/families today) and without needing to pay a subscription for things you own. Also, the graphics quality is going to be much better than what Stadia or Deck can deliver if you use Link with any decent gaming rig. Also I don't invite any google venture into my life because it's spyware and vaporware. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
  - kobalsky 5y ago
    > If you already use Steam then you already have a PC that's probably not their target demographic.
    - 5y ago

CGamesPlay 5y ago

Is there any reason to make a line of inserters instead of using belts?

dhagz 5y ago
Only reason I have is if you're doing a no-belts run.
scrumbledober 5y ago
not a whole line like that, but there are some situations where you'd want two of them spaced that way and it doesn't really make sense to put a belt or chest in between them. I'd assume the image was mostly just to illustrate that that layout could be disrupted with a ghost.
Uily 5y ago
burner-inserter loops aren't a bad way to dispose of wooden power poles after refactoring your early base. I usually just set up a logistics chest to request some and then feed them into the burner inserter loop.
omnipath 5y ago
You're out of belts.
- Buttons840 5y ago
  I can tell you've made some quality spaghetti in your time

justsid 5y ago

I too have had a Steam Deck dev kit since pretty early on and have put an ungodly amount of time into it on there. It works really well, like the article already mentioned. Steam Input set up is pretty easy and carries you all of the way through the game. Actually, to completely side step Factorio, Steam Input is an amazing tool on the Deck. It makes it incredibly easy to coerce just about any game out there to play ball with the Deck controller scheme. Super pumped for the device to come out into general hands now

croes 5y ago

OT: is the link at the top for donations for the Ukrainian red cross legit? https://donate.redcrossredcrescent.org/ua/donate/~my-donation https://donate.redcrossredcrescent.org/ua/donate/~my-donatio... because the ifrc website has also campaign for Ukraine https://donation.ifrc.org/?campaign=e8952a8a-5096-ec11-a2db-005056010027 https://donation.ifrc.org/?campaign=e8952a8a-5096-ec11-a2db-...

proto_lambda 5y ago
Huh, that is a bit suspect. https://redcrossredcrescent.org/ https://redcrossredcrescent.org/ refuses connection, the HTTP version just redirects to the IFRC homepage. The only backlink to that domain I can find is this tweet, and I have no idea if the twitter account is legt: https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine/status/1496927821616320512 https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine/status/14969278216163205...

patmcc 5y ago

I enjoy Factorio, I think it's a lovely game, and I'd be happy to support the creators for that alone. But what really sets them apart is these regular Friday blog posts - being willing to include the community in what's happening in the business, development, documentation, modding, etc. of the game is so refreshing. I love it. I'll be buying the expansion on their word alone that it's ready and for sale. If they develop another game I'll buy that too.