4 ms·

Sometimes I want to work in an office, therefore I don't value my "life outside" (whatever that means). What an odd conclusion to jump to...

Apocryphon 5y ago
For starters, having to commute and stay in the office for the full day cuts into one's WLB.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Unbeliever69 5y ago
  This is obviously a "to each his own" issue. Work where you perform the best and for the best of the team. For my small startup WFH has been a blessing. Outside of physical face-to-face interaction there have been no downside because we have adjusted our process and technologies accordingly. We also work very comfortable in video chat all day. We occasionally meet and have lunch. I can honestly say I will never go back to working in an office and most of my co-workers feel the same. The few that wouldn't mind working in an office occasionally are those that have distractions at home (family that don't respect boundaries, usually with young children).
- jayd16 5y ago
  This is probably unpopular but... Commute time is a choice against other expenses. I live 10 minutes from the office because I didn't want to commute. I don't begrudge you for living further but I will say it was a WLB choice the employee made, not the employer.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    I begrudge people who demand their colleagues come into the office which governs their living arrangements if a commute is required. Remote is absolutely possible if your job doesn't require meatspace/atom manipulation as part of your work product, and to say that it isn't possible 3 years into a global pandemic demonstrating sustained levels of productivity while remote across various sectors is simply laziness and stated in bad faith. I understand that we are just randos throwing opinions back and forth, and that the only recourse available in countries where remote work isn't mandated by law as an option is to hope for remote orgs to continue to cannibalize non-remote/less-remote orgs for top talent, until non-remote orgs concede on their physical presence demands.
    - jayd16 5y ago
      Not really weighing in on any of that. I just find it disingenuous to claim its a work life balance thing when the balance was the choice of the employee to begin with. I understand the desire to have a cake and eat it but the job was to show up and put in the time. To go back and argue that showing up is now a WLB violation for previously existing jobs is just not defensible. That said, sure, more jobs should just be WFH. If you want that, find it.
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        > I understand the desire to have a cake and eat it but the job was to show up and put in the time. To go back and argue that showing up is now a WLB violation for previously existing jobs is just not defensible. Based on your reply, I don't think you truly understand the situation. The work arrangement is always negotiable, and demanding remote when it's proven it can be done at a reasonable productively level is entirely reasonable from an employee perspective. One does not need to put up with unreasonable employer demands in the current job market, and showing up on site five days a week is arguably unreasonable. The job expectations are to deliver results, not warm a chair with colleagues. Of course, if your job performance was based on warming the chair versus delivering, of course, measure that instead of results. If you want to work on site, wonderful, go for it. That does not appear to be the direction the market is going based on available data. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/jobs/2022/02/24/why-remote-jobs-are-changing-work-for-good-if-youre-working-in-the-right-place/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/jobs/2022/02/24/why-remo... (Why remote jobs are changing work for good — if you’re working in the right place; Over 40% of employees say they would look for a new job if required to go to a worksite five days a week.) https://www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/recruitment/west-coast-tech-firms-increase-hiring-throughout-us/326599 https://www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/recruitment/west-co... (West Coast tech firms increase hiring throughout U.S.) https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/economic_brief/2022/eb_22-07 https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/economic_b... (Are Firms Using Remote Work to Recruit and Retain Workers?) https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/workers-quitting-over-remote-work-going-back-to-office.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/workers-quitting-ov... (The People Who’d Rather Quit Than Give Up Remote Work) https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/02/16/covid-19-pandemic-continues-to-reshape-work-in-america/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/02/16/covid-1... (excerpts from this link below) > Working from home is a relatively new experience for a majority of workers with jobs that can be done remotely – 57% say they rarely or never worked from home prior to the coronavirus outbreak. For those who have made the switch to telework, their work lives have changed in some significant ways. On the plus side, most (64%) of those who are now working from home at least some of the time but rarely or never did before the pandemic say it’s easier now for them to balance work with their personal life. And many (44%) say working from home has made it easier for them to get their work done and meet deadlines, while very few (10%) say it’s been harder to do this. At the same time, 60% say they feel less connected to their co-workers now. Most (72%) say working from home hasn’t affected their ability to advance in their job. > Looking to the future, 60% of workers with jobs that can be done from home say when the coronavirus outbreak is over, if they have the choice, they’d like to work from home all or most of the time. This is up from 54% who said the same in 2020. Among those who are currently working from home all or most of the time, 78% say they’d like to continue to do so after the pandemic, up from 64% in 2020.
  - hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
    You're right, that is a horrible thing to force employees to do. To manage their entire lives and where they lived for their employer. Glad we're seeing an end to this.
- closeparen 5y ago
  Having nowhere to be, ever, cuts into one’s sanity. It is all the stress of working combined with the listlessness of retirement. I hate it so much.

Apocryphon 5y ago

For starters, having to commute and stay in the office for the full day cuts into one's WLB.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Unbeliever69 5y ago
This is obviously a "to each his own" issue. Work where you perform the best and for the best of the team. For my small startup WFH has been a blessing. Outside of physical face-to-face interaction there have been no downside because we have adjusted our process and technologies accordingly. We also work very comfortable in video chat all day. We occasionally meet and have lunch. I can honestly say I will never go back to working in an office and most of my co-workers feel the same. The few that wouldn't mind working in an office occasionally are those that have distractions at home (family that don't respect boundaries, usually with young children).
jayd16 5y ago
This is probably unpopular but... Commute time is a choice against other expenses. I live 10 minutes from the office because I didn't want to commute. I don't begrudge you for living further but I will say it was a WLB choice the employee made, not the employer.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I begrudge people who demand their colleagues come into the office which governs their living arrangements if a commute is required. Remote is absolutely possible if your job doesn't require meatspace/atom manipulation as part of your work product, and to say that it isn't possible 3 years into a global pandemic demonstrating sustained levels of productivity while remote across various sectors is simply laziness and stated in bad faith. I understand that we are just randos throwing opinions back and forth, and that the only recourse available in countries where remote work isn't mandated by law as an option is to hope for remote orgs to continue to cannibalize non-remote/less-remote orgs for top talent, until non-remote orgs concede on their physical presence demands.
  - jayd16 5y ago
    Not really weighing in on any of that. I just find it disingenuous to claim its a work life balance thing when the balance was the choice of the employee to begin with. I understand the desire to have a cake and eat it but the job was to show up and put in the time. To go back and argue that showing up is now a WLB violation for previously existing jobs is just not defensible. That said, sure, more jobs should just be WFH. If you want that, find it.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      > I understand the desire to have a cake and eat it but the job was to show up and put in the time. To go back and argue that showing up is now a WLB violation for previously existing jobs is just not defensible. Based on your reply, I don't think you truly understand the situation. The work arrangement is always negotiable, and demanding remote when it's proven it can be done at a reasonable productively level is entirely reasonable from an employee perspective. One does not need to put up with unreasonable employer demands in the current job market, and showing up on site five days a week is arguably unreasonable. The job expectations are to deliver results, not warm a chair with colleagues. Of course, if your job performance was based on warming the chair versus delivering, of course, measure that instead of results. If you want to work on site, wonderful, go for it. That does not appear to be the direction the market is going based on available data. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/jobs/2022/02/24/why-remote-jobs-are-changing-work-for-good-if-youre-working-in-the-right-place/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/jobs/2022/02/24/why-remo... (Why remote jobs are changing work for good — if you’re working in the right place; Over 40% of employees say they would look for a new job if required to go to a worksite five days a week.) https://www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/recruitment/west-coast-tech-firms-increase-hiring-throughout-us/326599 https://www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/recruitment/west-co... (West Coast tech firms increase hiring throughout U.S.) https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/economic_brief/2022/eb_22-07 https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/economic_b... (Are Firms Using Remote Work to Recruit and Retain Workers?) https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/workers-quitting-over-remote-work-going-back-to-office.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/07/workers-quitting-ov... (The People Who’d Rather Quit Than Give Up Remote Work) https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/02/16/covid-19-pandemic-continues-to-reshape-work-in-america/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/02/16/covid-1... (excerpts from this link below) > Working from home is a relatively new experience for a majority of workers with jobs that can be done remotely – 57% say they rarely or never worked from home prior to the coronavirus outbreak. For those who have made the switch to telework, their work lives have changed in some significant ways. On the plus side, most (64%) of those who are now working from home at least some of the time but rarely or never did before the pandemic say it’s easier now for them to balance work with their personal life. And many (44%) say working from home has made it easier for them to get their work done and meet deadlines, while very few (10%) say it’s been harder to do this. At the same time, 60% say they feel less connected to their co-workers now. Most (72%) say working from home hasn’t affected their ability to advance in their job. > Looking to the future, 60% of workers with jobs that can be done from home say when the coronavirus outbreak is over, if they have the choice, they’d like to work from home all or most of the time. This is up from 54% who said the same in 2020. Among those who are currently working from home all or most of the time, 78% say they’d like to continue to do so after the pandemic, up from 64% in 2020.
- hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
  You're right, that is a horrible thing to force employees to do. To manage their entire lives and where they lived for their employer. Glad we're seeing an end to this.
closeparen 5y ago
Having nowhere to be, ever, cuts into one’s sanity. It is all the stress of working combined with the listlessness of retirement. I hate it so much.