12 ms·

Even if you believed it, most people don't have the luxury of just uprooting and leaving until it gets bad. The government still isn't recommending fleeing. Th

Even if you believed it, most people don't have the luxury of just uprooting and leaving until it gets bad. The government still isn't recommending fleeing. They want to stay and fight--not preside over refugee flows to Poland.

richardfey 5y ago
Isn't this a war between brothers, after all? I want to hope that Russian soldiers will stop in front of the babushkas that obviously will never leave their houses, and show some compassion. That kind of humanity is of course much harder to experience when bombing or using drones, but I do not know if they're being used.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  The media is shit... So far Russia's done precision strikes and is simply rolling troops down roads. They won't encounter much resistance. A month (or more?) ago Zelenskiy said he's not sending Ukrainians to die. Today there's a lot of tough talk but there's no indication that Ukrainians will put up a fight and die en masse...
  - waffle_maniac 5y ago
    > Today there's a lot of tough talk but there's no indication that Ukrainians will put up a fight and die en masse There's no evidence to the contrary. It has just begun.
  - baq 5y ago
    The Ukrainian army was 400k strong and quite experienced. They're badly out-teched, especially in the air warfare department, but they will make it up with morale - they're defending their motherland. Russian army just does what it's been told. They're risking their lives to make a select few oligarchs a couple billion richer each. They don't want to be there. If this doesn't end within a week, it'll take years. Putin knows this, hence the offers of unconditional surrender.
  - kevinventullo 5y ago
    Al Jazeera reports dozens of casualties already: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-inva...
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      Not to deminish that they're people but that's basically a weekend in Chicago... For a "full scale invasion" it's nothing and would indicate that there won't be much resistance.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        Gross.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        If you don't want to diminish it, why do you diminish it? When Germany invaded NL for the first little bit there were not many casualties, those came later.
        Mikeb85 5y ago
        Because the media and everyone make it sound like it's about to be trench warfare and then urban warfare for years and the original parent I responded to implied soldiers would be gunning down babushkas... It's bad but it's obviously modern warfare and there likely won't be massive casualties because the Ukrainians aren't marching to die since the west already abandoned them. We were told Russia would be rolling tanks through the mud and fighting in trenches... Lots of propaganda. And an hour ago I watched Biden say sanctions are as bad as missiles SMH... Anyhow, the west abandoned Ukraine, I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        > I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing As in: you don't believe that Ukrainians will defend their country?
  - sitting_duck 5y ago
    According to a friend of mine who served as a flight engineer in the red army until somewhen in the nineties your post pretty much nails it. He called a former Ukrainian colleague today. According to him Russia obtained complete air souvereignty today. Ukrainian air defence was destroyed by sea-launched cruise missiles. Regular Ukrainian troops are not fighting. They leave their weapons behind and go away. High ranked russian staff promised not to chase them. To the majority of Ukrainian soldiers it just feels not right to shoot russians. So Russia covered a lot of ground today without firing much. Extremist formations on both sides and Russian mercenaries are the ones who do real fighting. This is consistent with the media insofar as you would usually expect: x killed troops in y, z troops caught, strategic installations damaged etc. You cannot get these reports if one side literally throws their guns away and goes home. In my friend’s opinion Kiev will fall within the next few days if not tomorrow, the government will either flee or get captured and he joked there will be elections next week.
    - cjbgkagh 5y ago
      This exactly reflects my reading of the situation. I expect a Russian victory and hope it ends up relatively bloodless.
    - neoromantique 5y ago
      >Regular Ukrainian troops are not fighting This is very false, there have been forces deserting, but not in any significant numbers. While in the morning, attack was sudden and situation looked very bleak for Ukraine, towards the evening, army has been more or less mobilized and started to take back territory. Unfortunately, the worst is to come. >In my friend’s opinion Kiev will fall within the next few days if not tomorrow, the government will either flee or get captured and he joked there will be elections next week. Your friend is a terrible human being.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - sitting_duck 5y ago
        > Your friend is a terrible human being. … do you have anything else to add to the discussion?
- caycep 5y ago
  The NYT are running interviews w/ Russian citizens; w/ the premise that a lot of them are perplexed as to why Putin ordered all of this, especially bc there are a lot of friends/relatives cross border.

richardfey 5y ago

Isn't this a war between brothers, after all? I want to hope that Russian soldiers will stop in front of the babushkas that obviously will never leave their houses, and show some compassion. That kind of humanity is of course much harder to experience when bombing or using drones, but I do not know if they're being used.

Mikeb85 5y ago
The media is shit... So far Russia's done precision strikes and is simply rolling troops down roads. They won't encounter much resistance. A month (or more?) ago Zelenskiy said he's not sending Ukrainians to die. Today there's a lot of tough talk but there's no indication that Ukrainians will put up a fight and die en masse...
- waffle_maniac 5y ago
  > Today there's a lot of tough talk but there's no indication that Ukrainians will put up a fight and die en masse There's no evidence to the contrary. It has just begun.
- baq 5y ago
  The Ukrainian army was 400k strong and quite experienced. They're badly out-teched, especially in the air warfare department, but they will make it up with morale - they're defending their motherland. Russian army just does what it's been told. They're risking their lives to make a select few oligarchs a couple billion richer each. They don't want to be there. If this doesn't end within a week, it'll take years. Putin knows this, hence the offers of unconditional surrender.
- kevinventullo 5y ago
  Al Jazeera reports dozens of casualties already: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-inva...
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Not to deminish that they're people but that's basically a weekend in Chicago... For a "full scale invasion" it's nothing and would indicate that there won't be much resistance.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Gross.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      If you don't want to diminish it, why do you diminish it? When Germany invaded NL for the first little bit there were not many casualties, those came later.
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        Because the media and everyone make it sound like it's about to be trench warfare and then urban warfare for years and the original parent I responded to implied soldiers would be gunning down babushkas... It's bad but it's obviously modern warfare and there likely won't be massive casualties because the Ukrainians aren't marching to die since the west already abandoned them. We were told Russia would be rolling tanks through the mud and fighting in trenches... Lots of propaganda. And an hour ago I watched Biden say sanctions are as bad as missiles SMH... Anyhow, the west abandoned Ukraine, I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        > I really doubt too many Ukrainians are eager to die for nothing As in: you don't believe that Ukrainians will defend their country?
- sitting_duck 5y ago
  According to a friend of mine who served as a flight engineer in the red army until somewhen in the nineties your post pretty much nails it. He called a former Ukrainian colleague today. According to him Russia obtained complete air souvereignty today. Ukrainian air defence was destroyed by sea-launched cruise missiles. Regular Ukrainian troops are not fighting. They leave their weapons behind and go away. High ranked russian staff promised not to chase them. To the majority of Ukrainian soldiers it just feels not right to shoot russians. So Russia covered a lot of ground today without firing much. Extremist formations on both sides and Russian mercenaries are the ones who do real fighting. This is consistent with the media insofar as you would usually expect: x killed troops in y, z troops caught, strategic installations damaged etc. You cannot get these reports if one side literally throws their guns away and goes home. In my friend’s opinion Kiev will fall within the next few days if not tomorrow, the government will either flee or get captured and he joked there will be elections next week.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago
    This exactly reflects my reading of the situation. I expect a Russian victory and hope it ends up relatively bloodless.
  - neoromantique 5y ago
    >Regular Ukrainian troops are not fighting This is very false, there have been forces deserting, but not in any significant numbers. While in the morning, attack was sudden and situation looked very bleak for Ukraine, towards the evening, army has been more or less mobilized and started to take back territory. Unfortunately, the worst is to come. >In my friend’s opinion Kiev will fall within the next few days if not tomorrow, the government will either flee or get captured and he joked there will be elections next week. Your friend is a terrible human being.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sitting_duck 5y ago
      > Your friend is a terrible human being. … do you have anything else to add to the discussion?
caycep 5y ago
The NYT are running interviews w/ Russian citizens; w/ the premise that a lot of them are perplexed as to why Putin ordered all of this, especially bc there are a lot of friends/relatives cross border.