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We're talking about the 2 biggest nuclear powers here. A tiny mistake or misunderstanding is all that's needed. Google Vasily Arkhipov. After the EU sanctions
by zx85wes 5y ago
We're talking about the 2 biggest nuclear powers here. A tiny mistake or misunderstanding is all that's needed. Google Vasily Arkhipov.
After the EU sanctions overnight, it seems that Russia felt it had not much to lose, and they launched their attack.
- mahkeiro 5y agoThis attack has been planned for months… EU sanctions have nothing to do with that.
- zx85wes 5y agoI don't believe it was inevitable.
- jacquesm 5y agoIt was inevitable since 2014. The only thing that is surprising is that it took this long.
- avgcorrection 5y agoWhatever is inevitable for eight years is really not.
- CRConrad 5y agoMaybe not, if you're young enough to think eight years is a long time.
- jacquesm 5y agoWell, if you were looking a bit more closely you would have noticed a lot of little steps all leading to that goal, so as far as I'm concerned it was inevitable, but you are of course entirely entitled to your own worldview.
- wbsss4412 5y agoHow, in your estimation, could it have been averted then? The west doesn’t really hold the cards at the moment.
- jacquesm 5y agoThat's mostly because they have more to lose.
- wbsss4412 5y agoThat doesn’t really answer the question. You claimed that this wasn’t inevitable. From today’s vantage point, it seems pretty clear that this was Putin’s intent all along.
- avgcorrection 5y agoThe West was ambivalent about eventual Ukraine membership in Nato for 8+ years. What has that achieved? - If Nato had put a memorandum on Ukraine membership: Russia would have less of a reason to attack but Nato wouldn’t be able to help defend Ukraine in case of an attack - Nato stays ambivalent about eventual membership: Russia is more likely to attack and, as stated by the Nato general secretary and the US president, Nato won’t help defend Ukraine in case of an attack
- kelnos 5y ago> memorandum I assume you mean "moratorium"?
- avgcorrection 5y agoYes :)
- onepointsixC 5y agoThen you did not listen to Putin's speech where he declares all territories which have once been part of the Russian empire as illegitimate states which should be forcibly reintegrated. He outright declared himself an Imperialist with dreams of empire. The only thing which would have dissuaded Putin was overwhelming force.
- zx85wes 5y agoAnd what if Russia detonates a nuclear bomb over these incoming NATO troops?
- wbsss4412 5y agoThen there will be a hot nuclear war. No something I welcome, but the calculations you are making don’t match up with reality. How would you have it? Just let any nuclear armed state invade any country it wants? There has to be a place where the line is drawn.
- posix_me_less 5y agoI have trouble understanding your point of view. What are you suggesting? I hope not that US starts nuclear war with Russia over disagreement about Ukraine?
- wbsss4412 5y agoIn the case that Russia drops a nuke on NATO troops, you believe that the US should just accept that with no response? Russia has agency in this scenario. If they drop nukes first they are starting a nuclear war.
- layer8 5y agoThe only way it would have been avoidable is for the EU and NATO to withdraw their support (economic, political, military) from Ukraine, in order to enable the Kremlin to bring about a Russia-friendly regime by non-military means. Putin’s goal was always to turn Ukraine back into at least a vassal state of Russia. Given the western-oriented developments in Ukraine since 2014, the opportunity window was slowly closing, time was running out.
- zx85wes 5y agoOfficial neutrality and a trade deal with both the EU and Russia?
- layer8 5y agoYou couldn’t prevent the Ukrainian people to predominantly prefer a western orientation, and to vote for a government with western values. The only conceivable way to really satisfy Putin would have been for the Ukraine to be controlled by Russia-aligned propaganda and media, probably with rigged elections, similar to Belarus. Of course, Putin may have hoped that the Ukrainian public would "see the light" and realize that they are really Russian people (as Putin seems to think they ought to) and align themselves accordingly, but that would have been a pipe dream.
- kergonath 5y agoAh, the good old “YOU made me do it” line. So, Putin had beed moving his 160,000 soldiers to the border for weeks because of the sanctions that were taken 2 days ago?
- zx85wes 5y agoAnd NATO had been sending arms and advisors into Ukraine. And what good did that do for Ukrainians who by and large are sick of this conflict?
- adventured 5y agoUkraine is not owned by Russia. If Ukraine invites NATO troops in, that is their right to do so. Ukraine does not want to be part of Russia, which is why Putin just had to launch an attack against the whole of the nation. Kharkiv is Russian-speaking majority and right next to the border, why didn't it voluntarily join Russia 5, 10, 20 years ago? It didn't want to is the correct answer. Remember how the Russian government was recently talking about how what goes on inside of their borders is only their business? That they may move their troops anywhere they like inside of their borders (the obvious lie by Putin & Co that was obvious at the time)? Yeah, that's the same principle.
- d0mine 5y agoImagine Mexico for any reason would invite Russian army. What answer do expect from US in such case? And you don't have to imagine, just remember Cuban missile crisis (in response to US deploying missiles in Turkey, Italy)
- kergonath 5y agoUkraine is not getting nuclear weapons on its territory. If that were really the issue, Putin would have invaded the Baltic states and Poland. You know, where the weapons actually are.
- 5y ago