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> You will eventually get hit by someone posting selfies on instagram or playing their friends in wordle. You will eventually get hit by someone who punishment

> You will eventually get hit by someone posting selfies on instagram or playing their friends in wordle. You will eventually get hit by someone who punishment passes you and is dangerously negligent because they've dehumanized you, and they just don't care if they do violence to you, and its you're fault because you're slow. Or you will get hit by people who simply don't register bikes and consciously or unconsciously think that bicyclists must yield to cars, sometimes turning left in front of you with no time for you to stop. Or you will get right hooked by someone who just passed you a second earlier and that is too long for their minds to track the fact that you're still there, or they again think they're entitled to drive however they want and you need to yield to whatever they do.

WalterBright 5y ago
I bought a dashcam for my car because of bicyclists: 1. randomly wandering out of the bike lane and into the car lane 2. stopped in the middle of the car lane around a blind curve 3. drafting 3 feet behind the panel truck in front of them at 40 mph 4. riding two or three abreast, with the 2 or 3 well into the car lane 5. continuing to cycle at 25 mph in the right hand bike lane while the traffic is going much slower, and there's a right hand turn coming up (it's difficult to spot these bikers while driving, heck, even cars are hard to see there which is why overtaking on the right is illegal) None of these incidents were kids on bikes, they were all middle aged adults who really should know better. I talked to a couple of these cyclists (in their tour de france outfits, naturally) once, and they laughed and said if they get hit by a car it'll be their big payday lawsuit. I replied getting crippled isn't worth a billion dollars. Ride defensively, folks, regardless of what the law says or who is at fault.
- mindslight 5y ago
  Comments like yours are exactly why I'm somewhat predisposed against bike lanes - there is no such thing as a "car lane". By all means yes, get a dashcam. The more evidence, the better. While driving, I've had a few cyclists come around around blind corners going the wrong way. Any type of road user can be an idiot. But the main commonality of your list is people clashing with your own personal expectations. Don't assume that evidence of such will exculpate you (eg #2).
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I expect them to follow the rules. They don't. I'm aware they don't, so I am pretty vigilant of their expectation that they are exempt from common sense. I took a class in performance driving once. The central rule there is to "be predictable", as that's how accidents are avoided at 200 mph when you're 2 feet off of someone else's bumper. It's a lesson I took to heart in my everyday driving, and I wish that principle was taught regularly to other drivers, and that cyclists would have a clue about it.
    - II2II 5y ago
      Not following the rules is an issue for all road users. So yes, having that dashcam is a good thing. Getting it because of cyclists is prejudiced. It is also worth noting that motorists sometimes create the problems themselves. I try to stick to traffic regulations while on a bike since, as you say, being predictable is important. (In fact, it's something that a lot of cyclists in my neck of the woods preach.) Then you get a driver who tries to wave a cyclist waiting to make a left turn through when they have the right of way. No thank you. I have no plans on being road kill because the motorist is trying to be nice, and the guy behind him decides to pass on the right. Unfortunately, tonnes of situations like that pop up. Stopping for pedestrians when they have the right of way can be quite scary. I have had pedestrians to the right thing (push the button, wait to cross), I've stopped, and the car behind me decides to race through. They had plenty of time to stop. I know because I always do a shoulder check before stopping for pedestrians. Not doing so can be fatal. I have had motorists get angry at me for stopping for pedestrians in intersections where pedestrians had the right of way under similar circumstances. I realize that this is by no means a one way relationship. Some cyclists are idiots, either taking to many risks or by being to timid. Both result in unpredictability. I also realize that the behaviour of some motorists and some cyclists may be due to a "bad day". Let's face it, some people have to be on their bikes or in their cars even if they know they are unable to be fully attentive. I also realize that there are many incentives to behave properly on the roads because bad behaviour can have nasty consequences. Unfortunately, it often feels as though a lot of drivers failed basic physics and don't understand their larger mass and higher speeds gives them a great deal more kinetic energy.
- 8note 5y ago
  I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists. Those are all problems with the road, and not limited to bicycles. Eg. I see cars overtake on the right all the time
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists. Nope. I thought I was pretty clear. There's no sane reason to park in the middle of the road around a blind corner. Or draft. Or wander randomly in and out of the bike lane into traffic. > I see cars overtake on the right all the time It's still illegal, and for good reason.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      > It's still illegal, and for good reason. Not in every state, not every context: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115 https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115 For bikes it is even more nuanced (in my state): https://www.dugganbikelaw.com/perilous-passing-on-the-right https://www.dugganbikelaw.com/perilous-passing-on-the-right
- lamontcg 5y ago
  I never did any of those things back when I was bike commuting and I still got punishment passed regularly and had drivers turn left in front of me when I had the right of way nearly causing collisions (when I was wearing a glaringly bright yellow jacket). I also never saw any other bicyclists on my commute do anything particularly dangerous or come near to causing collisions. I saw a few of them brake the law, but I saw a lot of cars break the laws as well. The last time I think I saw a truly dangerous bicyclist was probably 10 years ago when some idiot blew a 4 way hauling ass after coming down a hill and given a minute one way or the other I would have killed him. I really need to get a dashcam because of all the bad drivers out there though. Just the level of tailgating at highway speeds out there is fucking insanity, with every other driver convinced that their testicles will shrivel up if someone changes lanes in front of them.
- foxyv 5y ago
  It's not a car lane. It's just a lane. There are tractors, construction vehicles, children crossing or playing street hockey, horse drawn carriages, broken down vehicles, construction workers, neighborhood electric vehicles and bicycles which are all allowed to use them. As an operator of a motor vehicle, it is my responsibility to not endanger or injure other road users. It drives people nuts usually, but I take it seriously. I stop at stop signs and red lights. I take turns slowly. I don't pass in an un-safe manner. I drive slower. Cyclists riding like idiots doesn't really bother me because it doesn't really HURT me in any way. They aren't the ones driving multi-ton machines.

WalterBright 5y ago

I bought a dashcam for my car because of bicyclists: 1. randomly wandering out of the bike lane and into the car lane 2. stopped in the middle of the car lane around a blind curve 3. drafting 3 feet behind the panel truck in front of them at 40 mph 4. riding two or three abreast, with the 2 or 3 well into the car lane 5. continuing to cycle at 25 mph in the right hand bike lane while the traffic is going much slower, and there's a right hand turn coming up (it's difficult to spot these bikers while driving, heck, even cars are hard to see there which is why overtaking on the right is illegal) None of these incidents were kids on bikes, they were all middle aged adults who really should know better. I talked to a couple of these cyclists (in their tour de france outfits, naturally) once, and they laughed and said if they get hit by a car it'll be their big payday lawsuit. I replied getting crippled isn't worth a billion dollars. Ride defensively, folks, regardless of what the law says or who is at fault.

mindslight 5y ago
Comments like yours are exactly why I'm somewhat predisposed against bike lanes - there is no such thing as a "car lane". By all means yes, get a dashcam. The more evidence, the better. While driving, I've had a few cyclists come around around blind corners going the wrong way. Any type of road user can be an idiot. But the main commonality of your list is people clashing with your own personal expectations. Don't assume that evidence of such will exculpate you (eg #2).
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I expect them to follow the rules. They don't. I'm aware they don't, so I am pretty vigilant of their expectation that they are exempt from common sense. I took a class in performance driving once. The central rule there is to "be predictable", as that's how accidents are avoided at 200 mph when you're 2 feet off of someone else's bumper. It's a lesson I took to heart in my everyday driving, and I wish that principle was taught regularly to other drivers, and that cyclists would have a clue about it.
  - II2II 5y ago
    Not following the rules is an issue for all road users. So yes, having that dashcam is a good thing. Getting it because of cyclists is prejudiced. It is also worth noting that motorists sometimes create the problems themselves. I try to stick to traffic regulations while on a bike since, as you say, being predictable is important. (In fact, it's something that a lot of cyclists in my neck of the woods preach.) Then you get a driver who tries to wave a cyclist waiting to make a left turn through when they have the right of way. No thank you. I have no plans on being road kill because the motorist is trying to be nice, and the guy behind him decides to pass on the right. Unfortunately, tonnes of situations like that pop up. Stopping for pedestrians when they have the right of way can be quite scary. I have had pedestrians to the right thing (push the button, wait to cross), I've stopped, and the car behind me decides to race through. They had plenty of time to stop. I know because I always do a shoulder check before stopping for pedestrians. Not doing so can be fatal. I have had motorists get angry at me for stopping for pedestrians in intersections where pedestrians had the right of way under similar circumstances. I realize that this is by no means a one way relationship. Some cyclists are idiots, either taking to many risks or by being to timid. Both result in unpredictability. I also realize that the behaviour of some motorists and some cyclists may be due to a "bad day". Let's face it, some people have to be on their bikes or in their cars even if they know they are unable to be fully attentive. I also realize that there are many incentives to behave properly on the roads because bad behaviour can have nasty consequences. Unfortunately, it often feels as though a lot of drivers failed basic physics and don't understand their larger mass and higher speeds gives them a great deal more kinetic energy.
8note 5y ago
I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists. Those are all problems with the road, and not limited to bicycles. Eg. I see cars overtake on the right all the time
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > I think you mean becausr if bicyle infrastructure rather than bicyclists. Nope. I thought I was pretty clear. There's no sane reason to park in the middle of the road around a blind corner. Or draft. Or wander randomly in and out of the bike lane into traffic. > I see cars overtake on the right all the time It's still illegal, and for good reason.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > It's still illegal, and for good reason. Not in every state, not every context: https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115 https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115 For bikes it is even more nuanced (in my state): https://www.dugganbikelaw.com/perilous-passing-on-the-right https://www.dugganbikelaw.com/perilous-passing-on-the-right
lamontcg 5y ago
I never did any of those things back when I was bike commuting and I still got punishment passed regularly and had drivers turn left in front of me when I had the right of way nearly causing collisions (when I was wearing a glaringly bright yellow jacket). I also never saw any other bicyclists on my commute do anything particularly dangerous or come near to causing collisions. I saw a few of them brake the law, but I saw a lot of cars break the laws as well. The last time I think I saw a truly dangerous bicyclist was probably 10 years ago when some idiot blew a 4 way hauling ass after coming down a hill and given a minute one way or the other I would have killed him. I really need to get a dashcam because of all the bad drivers out there though. Just the level of tailgating at highway speeds out there is fucking insanity, with every other driver convinced that their testicles will shrivel up if someone changes lanes in front of them.
foxyv 5y ago
It's not a car lane. It's just a lane. There are tractors, construction vehicles, children crossing or playing street hockey, horse drawn carriages, broken down vehicles, construction workers, neighborhood electric vehicles and bicycles which are all allowed to use them. As an operator of a motor vehicle, it is my responsibility to not endanger or injure other road users. It drives people nuts usually, but I take it seriously. I stop at stop signs and red lights. I take turns slowly. I don't pass in an un-safe manner. I drive slower. Cyclists riding like idiots doesn't really bother me because it doesn't really HURT me in any way. They aren't the ones driving multi-ton machines.