7 ms·

Emergencies Act Rescinded in Canada

33 points by definitelyhuman 5y ago

y3435y 5y ago
definitelyhuman 5y ago
Given all the excitement about this topic, I thought it was important to share that the emergency is over.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  I look forward towards the investigations about foreign interference. Should be enlightening for other countries as well.
  - jevoten 5y ago
    Is this one of those cases when xenophobia is ok?
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      No. This is one of those cases where we find out a war has already started and we didn't notice because the weapons are too new. Nice try though.
      - frabbit 5y ago
        Do you think Gretchen Whitmer told Trudeau what to do again?
        frabbit 5y ago
        In case anyone did not catch this: ""Resolve this:" Gov. Whitmer calls on Canadian government to reopen Ambassador Bridge" https://wwmt.com/news/state/resolve-this-gov-whitmer-calls-on-canadian-government-to-reopen-ambassador-bridge https://wwmt.com/news/state/resolve-this-gov-whitmer-calls-o... A shaming moment for Canada.
      - jquery 5y ago
        We’re absolutely already at war. Our institutions are being used against us. However, we are resilient. Anecdotally, I admit to falling for Russian disinfo in the past. Mea culpa. Now I’m a lot more wary and open eyed about how this stuff is generated and spread. I think every day, a number of adults learn for the first time they were duped by online misinformation, and will take steps to prevent it in the future. Hopefully this process happens faster than our enemy is able to deceive us.
        frabbit 5y ago
        Just so that we`re absolutely clear on what you are saying: you think that this protest is something started by the Russians somehow?
- fgahll 5y ago
  There was no emergency, just a huge annoyance that could have been cleared without dictatorial powers.
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    It was pretty clear during the protest that the Ottawa police were unable or unwilling to tackle the protest. Given the breakdown in the ability to restore order, most Canadians agree that the emergency was warranted. Using the phrase "dictatorial powers" to describe a bill explicitly designed to balance rights and forward action is incindiary language.
    - frabbit 5y ago
      Calling someone's opinions incendiary is incendiary.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      >Ottawa police were unable or unwilling to tackle the protest I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for why this was. I am very uncomfortable with the idea that the police declining to do their job is sufficient to emergency powers. There should be proportionate responses to illegal behavior. Not even attempting to regulate illegal behavior with the appropriate government response should not be a justification for more severe government response.
      - landemva 5y ago
        Local police sympathized based on their knowledge of living there. Outside police were brought in because they can abuse the people and then leave and not worry about being shamed. They needed non-locals to do the dirty work.
fgahll 5y ago
mmastrac 5y ago
Previous thread - interesting to see which comments there didn't age well over 24 hrs. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30431820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30431820
- jquery 5y ago
  Thanks. This should be pinned to the top.
kragen 5y ago
Another reminder of what Bitcoin is good for. The article currently links to another one that says they froze 200 bank accounts and are now unfreezing most of them: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-finance-committee-1.6360769 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin... https://archive.fo/lAT62 https://archive.fo/lAT62 It's a terrifying reminder of how vulnerable we've become to arbitrary and lawless government actions in our near-cashless society. Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30446703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30446703
- mmastrac 5y ago
  Bitcoin won't help you here: you still need to convert things to fiat to get anything done. And if shops start taking Bitcoin, the government will simply regulate those payments as well. Crypto doesn't exist in a vacuum.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    In support of your position, this article: https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/ https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/
    - kragen 5y ago
      Those are indeed very serious problems with Bitcoin, but they are not the problem the parent was talking about.
      - smnrchrds 5y ago
        I disagree. the government can tell (and has told) everyone that certain bitcoins are radioactive, making it hard or even impossible to spend them. There was a Matt Levine article about bitcoin laundering. It is much harder than I thought.
        skyde 5y ago
s1artibartfast 5y ago
I still don't understand why the police didn't do their job and the emergency powers were used in the first place The correct solution to illegal behavior in a healthy democracy is to arrest someone and try them in court. We shouldn't be denying that to to anybody no matter how wrong they are. There should be proportionate responses to illegal behavior. Not even attempting to address to illegal behavior with the appropriate government response should not be a justification for more severe government response. Simply not wanting to go through the process of arresting people shouldn't be sufficient cause for emergency powers.
- lovich 5y ago
  The federal Canadian government could not direct the police without using the emergency powers and the original police chief seemed to favor the protestors. The police in Canada, just like America, have had no issue cracking down on other protests, and started doing so after Sloly was replaced
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    So why didn't the Ottowa and Ontario government tell the police to crack down? After all it's the Ottawa residents that were so inconvenienced. Did the city or provincial government instruct them to? Did they refuse?
    - rescripting 5y ago
      From what I’ve gathered it’s mostly municipal incompetence. Ottawa police let them get entrenched, going so far as to offer use of a city owned baseball stadium parking lot which rapidly became a logistics base. They assumed protestors would park their rigs and travel in to the city to protest in a traditional way. Instead protestors set up camp on downtown streets in a weekend and the local police had no idea what to do. By then it was too late. There were over 8000 people present the first weekend. Police stated that attempts at enforcement would not be safe, probably because police felt just as threatened as residents did and they simply didn’t have the numbers to break it up. They then shifted their plan to “maybe they’ll get tired” for two weeks which took us right up to the emergency act being enacted and police being able to muster the numbers required to disperse the protest. At the provincial level, well, it’s an election year and the premier has an awful lot of voters who agree with the protestors, so he did his tried and true crisis management technique of hiding in a dark room.
frabbit 5y ago
Is there any move towards an investigation of some sort into whether Trudeau will face penalties of some sort for invoking these extreme measures without the justification of there being no other law to address the issues? Specifically I am thinking about this interesting interview with Dr. Leah West onthe Michael Geist LawBytes podcast. From about 8 minutes onwards they discuss whether the terrorist justification or the foreign influence justification existed: https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2022/02/law-bytes-podcast-episode-118/ https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2022/02/law-bytes-podcast-episod... It is interesting to see some commentators in this HN thread trying to suggest Russian influence. (And also IMO not very convincing). In any case, whatever opinion you have on this, it's a good podcast.
mardifoufs 5y ago
Apparently the senate was set on voting against the act, which is very uncommon considering that they usually rubber stamp whatever the MPs voted for. That's not the official reason but it's the only one that makes sense considering the timing. I guess the senate reforms to make it more independent actually yielded some results (one of the good things trudeau did, back when he was a lot less politically hawkish). The lawsuits were also piling up but those will continue I think. In any case this has been a disaster for the liberals and for Canada's reputation and I'm pleasantly surprised by the senate. I can see why it's not necessarily an uncessary, antiquated institution now. Checks and balances!
- giordano-bruno 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    My sources are absolutely not right wing and I dont use facebook. And no, it's not politically savvy to not even wait for an act to go through the senate, it's just obviously a way to avoid the senate vote. You could've just followed the senate debates, there is no need to read minds when the debates are... you know, public? https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/02/22/what-emergency-exists-today-senators-ask-for-more-details-on-governments-need-for-special-powers.html https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/02/22/what-eme...? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-emergencies-act-feb22-1.6360492 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-emergencies-act-feb2...?
    - giordano-bruno 5y ago
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Interesting. Were the emergency powers in effect without the confirmation of the house and senate? Is confirmation required or is there only a power to veto.?
- deleted 5y ago

y3435y 5y ago

definitelyhuman 5y ago

Given all the excitement about this topic, I thought it was important to share that the emergency is over.

rbanffy 5y ago
I look forward towards the investigations about foreign interference. Should be enlightening for other countries as well.
- jevoten 5y ago
  Is this one of those cases when xenophobia is ok?
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    No. This is one of those cases where we find out a war has already started and we didn't notice because the weapons are too new. Nice try though.
    - frabbit 5y ago
      Do you think Gretchen Whitmer told Trudeau what to do again?
      - frabbit 5y ago
        In case anyone did not catch this: ""Resolve this:" Gov. Whitmer calls on Canadian government to reopen Ambassador Bridge" https://wwmt.com/news/state/resolve-this-gov-whitmer-calls-on-canadian-government-to-reopen-ambassador-bridge https://wwmt.com/news/state/resolve-this-gov-whitmer-calls-o... A shaming moment for Canada.
    - jquery 5y ago
      We’re absolutely already at war. Our institutions are being used against us. However, we are resilient. Anecdotally, I admit to falling for Russian disinfo in the past. Mea culpa. Now I’m a lot more wary and open eyed about how this stuff is generated and spread. I think every day, a number of adults learn for the first time they were duped by online misinformation, and will take steps to prevent it in the future. Hopefully this process happens faster than our enemy is able to deceive us.
      - frabbit 5y ago
        Just so that we`re absolutely clear on what you are saying: you think that this protest is something started by the Russians somehow?
fgahll 5y ago
There was no emergency, just a huge annoyance that could have been cleared without dictatorial powers.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  It was pretty clear during the protest that the Ottawa police were unable or unwilling to tackle the protest. Given the breakdown in the ability to restore order, most Canadians agree that the emergency was warranted. Using the phrase "dictatorial powers" to describe a bill explicitly designed to balance rights and forward action is incindiary language.
  - frabbit 5y ago
    Calling someone's opinions incendiary is incendiary.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    >Ottawa police were unable or unwilling to tackle the protest I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for why this was. I am very uncomfortable with the idea that the police declining to do their job is sufficient to emergency powers. There should be proportionate responses to illegal behavior. Not even attempting to regulate illegal behavior with the appropriate government response should not be a justification for more severe government response.
    - landemva 5y ago
      Local police sympathized based on their knowledge of living there. Outside police were brought in because they can abuse the people and then leave and not worry about being shamed. They needed non-locals to do the dirty work.

fgahll 5y ago

mmastrac 5y ago

Previous thread - interesting to see which comments there didn't age well over 24 hrs. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30431820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30431820

jquery 5y ago
Thanks. This should be pinned to the top.

kragen 5y ago

Another reminder of what Bitcoin is good for. The article currently links to another one that says they froze 200 bank accounts and are now unfreezing most of them: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-finance-committee-1.6360769 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin... https://archive.fo/lAT62 https://archive.fo/lAT62 It's a terrifying reminder of how vulnerable we've become to arbitrary and lawless government actions in our near-cashless society. Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30446703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30446703

mmastrac 5y ago
Bitcoin won't help you here: you still need to convert things to fiat to get anything done. And if shops start taking Bitcoin, the government will simply regulate those payments as well. Crypto doesn't exist in a vacuum.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  In support of your position, this article: https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/ https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/
  - kragen 5y ago
    Those are indeed very serious problems with Bitcoin, but they are not the problem the parent was talking about.
    - smnrchrds 5y ago
      I disagree. the government can tell (and has told) everyone that certain bitcoins are radioactive, making it hard or even impossible to spend them. There was a Matt Levine article about bitcoin laundering. It is much harder than I thought.
      - skyde 5y ago

s1artibartfast 5y ago

I still don't understand why the police didn't do their job and the emergency powers were used in the first place The correct solution to illegal behavior in a healthy democracy is to arrest someone and try them in court. We shouldn't be denying that to to anybody no matter how wrong they are. There should be proportionate responses to illegal behavior. Not even attempting to address to illegal behavior with the appropriate government response should not be a justification for more severe government response. Simply not wanting to go through the process of arresting people shouldn't be sufficient cause for emergency powers.

lovich 5y ago
The federal Canadian government could not direct the police without using the emergency powers and the original police chief seemed to favor the protestors. The police in Canada, just like America, have had no issue cracking down on other protests, and started doing so after Sloly was replaced
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  So why didn't the Ottowa and Ontario government tell the police to crack down? After all it's the Ottawa residents that were so inconvenienced. Did the city or provincial government instruct them to? Did they refuse?
  - rescripting 5y ago
    From what I’ve gathered it’s mostly municipal incompetence. Ottawa police let them get entrenched, going so far as to offer use of a city owned baseball stadium parking lot which rapidly became a logistics base. They assumed protestors would park their rigs and travel in to the city to protest in a traditional way. Instead protestors set up camp on downtown streets in a weekend and the local police had no idea what to do. By then it was too late. There were over 8000 people present the first weekend. Police stated that attempts at enforcement would not be safe, probably because police felt just as threatened as residents did and they simply didn’t have the numbers to break it up. They then shifted their plan to “maybe they’ll get tired” for two weeks which took us right up to the emergency act being enacted and police being able to muster the numbers required to disperse the protest. At the provincial level, well, it’s an election year and the premier has an awful lot of voters who agree with the protestors, so he did his tried and true crisis management technique of hiding in a dark room.

frabbit 5y ago

Is there any move towards an investigation of some sort into whether Trudeau will face penalties of some sort for invoking these extreme measures without the justification of there being no other law to address the issues? Specifically I am thinking about this interesting interview with Dr. Leah West onthe Michael Geist LawBytes podcast. From about 8 minutes onwards they discuss whether the terrorist justification or the foreign influence justification existed: https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2022/02/law-bytes-podcast-episode-118/ https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2022/02/law-bytes-podcast-episod... It is interesting to see some commentators in this HN thread trying to suggest Russian influence. (And also IMO not very convincing). In any case, whatever opinion you have on this, it's a good podcast.

mardifoufs 5y ago

Apparently the senate was set on voting against the act, which is very uncommon considering that they usually rubber stamp whatever the MPs voted for. That's not the official reason but it's the only one that makes sense considering the timing. I guess the senate reforms to make it more independent actually yielded some results (one of the good things trudeau did, back when he was a lot less politically hawkish). The lawsuits were also piling up but those will continue I think. In any case this has been a disaster for the liberals and for Canada's reputation and I'm pleasantly surprised by the senate. I can see why it's not necessarily an uncessary, antiquated institution now. Checks and balances!

giordano-bruno 5y ago
[flagged]
- mardifoufs 5y ago
  My sources are absolutely not right wing and I dont use facebook. And no, it's not politically savvy to not even wait for an act to go through the senate, it's just obviously a way to avoid the senate vote. You could've just followed the senate debates, there is no need to read minds when the debates are... you know, public? https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/02/22/what-emergency-exists-today-senators-ask-for-more-details-on-governments-need-for-special-powers.html https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/02/22/what-eme...? https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-emergencies-act-feb22-1.6360492 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/senate-emergencies-act-feb2...?
  - giordano-bruno 5y ago
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Interesting. Were the emergency powers in effect without the confirmation of the house and senate? Is confirmation required or is there only a power to veto.?
deleted 5y ago