4 ms·

I have a Subaru BRZ and it is probably the most analog car of their fleet. There's zero connectivity to the internet, the headunit is replaceable, etc. Everyth

I have a Subaru BRZ and it is probably the most analog car of their fleet. There's zero connectivity to the internet, the headunit is replaceable, etc. Everything works from the ECU, wiring harness, etc. In some ways it's too bad that it takes a car being a niche sports car to qualify for having a (mostly) analog setup. The rest of the fleet should be this way, but then fancy features like EyeSight and such probably wouldn't work as well.

ezfe 5y ago
My 2020 Crosstrek is connected to the internet, but it only affects the infotainment system and remote start/stop/monitoring. The rest of the car is completely offline, that includes Eyesight.
- dogman144 5y ago
  Fwiw there's enough intermingling between how the head unit (infotainment) operates wrt to the CAN bus that your car is essentially online. https://github.com/sgayou/subaru-starlink-research/blob/master/doc/README.md https://github.com/sgayou/subaru-starlink-research/blob/mast...
  - magikaram 5y ago
    Not parent, but thank you for sharing this, as is quite the read.
    - dogman144 5y ago
      Sure thing! Cool read. It links into a very stellar 90 page report that kicked off much of the hacking cars research
  - logbiscuitswave 5y ago
    That was a great read. Thanks for posting. I’ve been dabbling in reverse engineering embedded devices in my spare time. I find these kind of detailed reports on how someone solved a reverse engineering challenge to be fascinating.
  - ezfe 5y ago
    Interesting page, and while what I said may be incorrect (it's not air-gapped or anything) - my intent was to say: >The online subscription and cellular service connectivity is not directly interacting with the eyesight safety system. The original article seemed to conflate them.
- vaxman 5y ago
  How do you know it "is completely offline, that includes Eyesight." I believe this is false. Also, the "repair issue" is concerned with (service bay) RF access to the proprietary sensors and memory attached to the vehicle's computer systems --not necessarily Internet connectivity to them.
  - ezfe 5y ago
    Let me rephrase, I meant that those systems, while they may be exposed to the online systems, are not part of the subscription packages in any way - and don't use the internet to operate.
magikaram 5y ago
I have a '22 Impreza, with a 5speed and the only internet connected thing is the headunit. However the headunit does communicate with the rest of the car for say: tpms, oil level, and for maintenance. While I surely would love to have full access to the data, since the car is extremely analog, it takes minimal maintenance and maximum fun, I haven't been too worried. Otherwise, the telemetrics I would vastly prefer to see opened to the public.
amunster 5y ago
Even the analog cars will have some level of telemetry now. For example, a 2015 WRX STI will record maximum RPM, maximum speed, key cycles since last flash/ battery disconnect. Not exactly a black box data recorder, but enough evidence to deny a warranty claim caused by over-revving the engine, if the warranty rep cares to look. The BRZ has anti lock brakes, stability control (on a toggle switch), and drive-by-wire throttle with input filtering. It makes for a smoother, safer experience. A bicycle is analog.
- spike021 5y ago
  You're definitely right. I suppose when I was referring to analog, I just meant capable of all operation without being connected to the Internet of Things.
  - amunster 5y ago
    Sure. The MySubaru app for the 2022 BRZ gives me a list of green status. Tire pressure and ten other categories. I’m not sure how the car sends the data out, because it’s not connected to WiFi directly. Bluetooth to the app and then out to the cloud? I use CarPlay too, is cell data shared with the head unit? As a normal consumer this feature is convenient. As a car enthusiast, it’s not any worse than it was before, unless Subaru started including a data recorder. The problem is not because it's connected to the internet. Back on topic, it would be nice if manufacturers disclosed what data they record. And in the case of Massachusetts, exposing it read-only to the consumer. If they can do it for OB2 decades ago they can do it for max rpm, air/fuel learning and other metrics.
    - spike021 5y ago
      Oh really? Dang, I guess my comment is only relevant to the first gen, then. We don't get any of those monitors or anything over network. Just OBD or canbus. That's a completely fair point. At least when it comes to OBD you can mostly figure out what data is made available, and even then there are usually enthusiasts who dig deeper to find other random metrics being logged. Plus you can get something like an Ecutek or OFT that can do additional datalogging.
vaxman 5y ago
This isn't necessarily about "connectivity to the Internet". When they pull your "BRZ" into a service bay at a SUBARU dealer, it begins exchanging data with SUBARU via RF. The SUBARU-side of that equipment is closed to the local grease monkeys. Also, this means if you want to add a supercharger to your BRZ, SUBARU will become instantly aware of it and void the warranty on everything, even your seatbelts and axils. Also, dealership mechanics are usually NOT better than local grease monkeys at performing repairs, though they are now artificially superior to them at diagnosing problems.
- spike021 5y ago
  I haven't experienced this personally. My car was on a custom dyno E85 flex fuel tune with ecutek for a while and there were a couple times I brought it into a dealer. The only thing they noticed and cared about was the flex fuel kit, and even then that was because they mistook it for a custom aftermarket fuel pump, when in reality it just reroutes the fuel line through the sensor. In fact, about a year after this my warranty had expired. But Subaru ended up extending it due to COVID and offered to reimburse any repair expense up to like $500 or something. At that earlier time, dealer missed some issues despite running diagnostics on my ECU and wiring harness. So later I brought it to another shop that fixed the problem. Subaru still reimbursed the whole cost of that repair plus parts. This was after they would've checked my ECU and seen that it had been modified with an ecutek license.

ezfe 5y ago

My 2020 Crosstrek is connected to the internet, but it only affects the infotainment system and remote start/stop/monitoring. The rest of the car is completely offline, that includes Eyesight.

dogman144 5y ago
Fwiw there's enough intermingling between how the head unit (infotainment) operates wrt to the CAN bus that your car is essentially online. https://github.com/sgayou/subaru-starlink-research/blob/master/doc/README.md https://github.com/sgayou/subaru-starlink-research/blob/mast...
- magikaram 5y ago
  Not parent, but thank you for sharing this, as is quite the read.
  - dogman144 5y ago
    Sure thing! Cool read. It links into a very stellar 90 page report that kicked off much of the hacking cars research
- logbiscuitswave 5y ago
  That was a great read. Thanks for posting. I’ve been dabbling in reverse engineering embedded devices in my spare time. I find these kind of detailed reports on how someone solved a reverse engineering challenge to be fascinating.
- ezfe 5y ago
  Interesting page, and while what I said may be incorrect (it's not air-gapped or anything) - my intent was to say: >The online subscription and cellular service connectivity is not directly interacting with the eyesight safety system. The original article seemed to conflate them.
vaxman 5y ago
How do you know it "is completely offline, that includes Eyesight." I believe this is false. Also, the "repair issue" is concerned with (service bay) RF access to the proprietary sensors and memory attached to the vehicle's computer systems --not necessarily Internet connectivity to them.
- ezfe 5y ago
  Let me rephrase, I meant that those systems, while they may be exposed to the online systems, are not part of the subscription packages in any way - and don't use the internet to operate.

magikaram 5y ago

I have a '22 Impreza, with a 5speed and the only internet connected thing is the headunit. However the headunit does communicate with the rest of the car for say: tpms, oil level, and for maintenance. While I surely would love to have full access to the data, since the car is extremely analog, it takes minimal maintenance and maximum fun, I haven't been too worried. Otherwise, the telemetrics I would vastly prefer to see opened to the public.

amunster 5y ago

Even the analog cars will have some level of telemetry now. For example, a 2015 WRX STI will record maximum RPM, maximum speed, key cycles since last flash/ battery disconnect. Not exactly a black box data recorder, but enough evidence to deny a warranty claim caused by over-revving the engine, if the warranty rep cares to look. The BRZ has anti lock brakes, stability control (on a toggle switch), and drive-by-wire throttle with input filtering. It makes for a smoother, safer experience. A bicycle is analog.

spike021 5y ago
You're definitely right. I suppose when I was referring to analog, I just meant capable of all operation without being connected to the Internet of Things.
- amunster 5y ago
  Sure. The MySubaru app for the 2022 BRZ gives me a list of green status. Tire pressure and ten other categories. I’m not sure how the car sends the data out, because it’s not connected to WiFi directly. Bluetooth to the app and then out to the cloud? I use CarPlay too, is cell data shared with the head unit? As a normal consumer this feature is convenient. As a car enthusiast, it’s not any worse than it was before, unless Subaru started including a data recorder. The problem is not because it's connected to the internet. Back on topic, it would be nice if manufacturers disclosed what data they record. And in the case of Massachusetts, exposing it read-only to the consumer. If they can do it for OB2 decades ago they can do it for max rpm, air/fuel learning and other metrics.
  - spike021 5y ago
    Oh really? Dang, I guess my comment is only relevant to the first gen, then. We don't get any of those monitors or anything over network. Just OBD or canbus. That's a completely fair point. At least when it comes to OBD you can mostly figure out what data is made available, and even then there are usually enthusiasts who dig deeper to find other random metrics being logged. Plus you can get something like an Ecutek or OFT that can do additional datalogging.

vaxman 5y ago

This isn't necessarily about "connectivity to the Internet". When they pull your "BRZ" into a service bay at a SUBARU dealer, it begins exchanging data with SUBARU via RF. The SUBARU-side of that equipment is closed to the local grease monkeys. Also, this means if you want to add a supercharger to your BRZ, SUBARU will become instantly aware of it and void the warranty on everything, even your seatbelts and axils. Also, dealership mechanics are usually NOT better than local grease monkeys at performing repairs, though they are now artificially superior to them at diagnosing problems.

spike021 5y ago
I haven't experienced this personally. My car was on a custom dyno E85 flex fuel tune with ecutek for a while and there were a couple times I brought it into a dealer. The only thing they noticed and cared about was the flex fuel kit, and even then that was because they mistook it for a custom aftermarket fuel pump, when in reality it just reroutes the fuel line through the sensor. In fact, about a year after this my warranty had expired. But Subaru ended up extending it due to COVID and offered to reimburse any repair expense up to like $500 or something. At that earlier time, dealer missed some issues despite running diagnostics on my ECU and wiring harness. So later I brought it to another shop that fixed the problem. Subaru still reimbursed the whole cost of that repair plus parts. This was after they would've checked my ECU and seen that it had been modified with an ecutek license.