6 ms·

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

by aborsy 5y ago

stefs 5y ago
like whom? americans? londoners? africans? indians? but you're right that 60000 INR sounds like a lot more than 3000 EUR, because, uh, the number is 20 times (!!!) bigger.
invalidusernam3 5y ago
It's all relative to cost of living.
- dathinab 5y ago
  Yes, though you also have to look into details. Like as far as I can tell the "actual" cost of living in the US diverges quite a bit from the "surface level" cost you might find when googling ad-hoc. As far as I can tell this is because (but not limited to) factors like the health system being prone to having high hidden costs, or also small things like you being required to have a care in many metro areas or thinks you are "socially expected" to strive for like owning a house or a more expensive car. I'm pretty sure similar things apply for other countries, too.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Also don't forget that many people in some countries start in the negative with student loans, which is relatively rare, and when present at much lower rates, in the EU.
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
… until you take into account everything covered by welfare states.
- avs733 5y ago
  to simplify this statement: until you take into account that your taxes are used to provide important government services.
- Levitz 5y ago
  There ain't no welfare state on heaven or earth that makes enough of a difference for new grads to earn 14-18k yearly (before tax). Good afternoon from Spain.
  - darebak 5y ago
    Ha, I actually have an Italian colleague who moved to Easter Europe(Slovakia) which I found surprising at first but then I discovered that Spain and Italy are comparable on salaries but have higher cost of living.
  - mrisoli 5y ago
    Spain salaries can be ridiculous, there has certainly been a boom and some startups are paying well for senior roles as competition heats up, but I consistently get recruiters pinging me with 30-40k openings for senior positions.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > … until you take into account everything covered by welfare states. You mean the services that barely work half the time?
- nivenkos 5y ago
  The salaries are lower before taxes though.
  - cvak 5y ago
    No, they are lower, and on top of that, they are taxed more.
dijit 5y ago
I used to think this (as a euro), then I met an American and he explained that he ended up better off in Europe on a "lower" salary because he hadn't considered the hidden costs of living in the USA. He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that; he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to state and city to city; it generally ends up being about 18-20%, which is in-line with VAT in most Euro countries. He made a lot of comments about certain mandatory insurances and the fact that there were no "cost saving" systems, like heavily subsidised childcare or decent enough public transport that meant you didn't have the burden of a car. Though he said he couldn't imagine living without a car in the US, as it turns you "back into a child". (his words.) I'm not sure, I don't know everything, but after talking with him I didn't feel bad for being a "poor euro" anymore, because while the absolute "amount" of money he earned was much greater, the amount that he could actually use was lower. But he also never had any stock grants or anything.. and those are not incredibly common in Europe. So you could be better off anyway. Who knows?
- hughrr 5y ago
  Colleagues of mine in the US work a lot more hours as well. I think our effective spending power in Europe is much better just on that point as well.
  - suslik 5y ago
    This is often an underestimated point. I get 9-5 no overtimes plus 38 vacation days per year (and an ability to purchase more). It would take a lot of money - more than I am likely to get - to convince me to switch to a US working schedule.
    - balfirevic 5y ago
      > plus 38 vacation days per year Well, most of my programmer colleagues get 20-25. And they are also in Europe!
      - 5y ago

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

by aborsy 5y ago

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

like whom? americans? londoners? africans? indians? but you're right that 60000 INR sounds like a lot more than 3000 EUR, because, uh, the number is 20 times (!!!) bigger.

invalidusernam3 5y ago

It's all relative to cost of living.

dathinab 5y ago
Yes, though you also have to look into details. Like as far as I can tell the "actual" cost of living in the US diverges quite a bit from the "surface level" cost you might find when googling ad-hoc. As far as I can tell this is because (but not limited to) factors like the health system being prone to having high hidden costs, or also small things like you being required to have a care in many metro areas or thinks you are "socially expected" to strive for like owning a house or a more expensive car. I'm pretty sure similar things apply for other countries, too.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Also don't forget that many people in some countries start in the negative with student loans, which is relatively rare, and when present at much lower rates, in the EU.

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

… until you take into account everything covered by welfare states.

avs733 5y ago
to simplify this statement: until you take into account that your taxes are used to provide important government services.
Levitz 5y ago
There ain't no welfare state on heaven or earth that makes enough of a difference for new grads to earn 14-18k yearly (before tax). Good afternoon from Spain.
- darebak 5y ago
  Ha, I actually have an Italian colleague who moved to Easter Europe(Slovakia) which I found surprising at first but then I discovered that Spain and Italy are comparable on salaries but have higher cost of living.
- mrisoli 5y ago
  Spain salaries can be ridiculous, there has certainly been a boom and some startups are paying well for senior roles as competition heats up, but I consistently get recruiters pinging me with 30-40k openings for senior positions.
ekianjo 5y ago
> … until you take into account everything covered by welfare states. You mean the services that barely work half the time?
nivenkos 5y ago
The salaries are lower before taxes though.
- cvak 5y ago
  No, they are lower, and on top of that, they are taxed more.

dijit 5y ago

I used to think this (as a euro), then I met an American and he explained that he ended up better off in Europe on a "lower" salary because he hadn't considered the hidden costs of living in the USA. He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that; he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to state and city to city; it generally ends up being about 18-20%, which is in-line with VAT in most Euro countries. He made a lot of comments about certain mandatory insurances and the fact that there were no "cost saving" systems, like heavily subsidised childcare or decent enough public transport that meant you didn't have the burden of a car. Though he said he couldn't imagine living without a car in the US, as it turns you "back into a child". (his words.) I'm not sure, I don't know everything, but after talking with him I didn't feel bad for being a "poor euro" anymore, because while the absolute "amount" of money he earned was much greater, the amount that he could actually use was lower. But he also never had any stock grants or anything.. and those are not incredibly common in Europe. So you could be better off anyway. Who knows?

hughrr 5y ago
Colleagues of mine in the US work a lot more hours as well. I think our effective spending power in Europe is much better just on that point as well.
- suslik 5y ago
  This is often an underestimated point. I get 9-5 no overtimes plus 38 vacation days per year (and an ability to purchase more). It would take a lot of money - more than I am likely to get - to convince me to switch to a US working schedule.
  - balfirevic 5y ago
    > plus 38 vacation days per year Well, most of my programmer colleagues get 20-25. And they are also in Europe!
    - 5y ago