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To me, this reveals an uncomfortable truth: - I know I'm not technically skilled enough to make it to the higher levels of IC - I know I lack the people skill

To me, this reveals an uncomfortable truth: - I know I'm not technically skilled enough to make it to the higher levels of IC - I know I lack the people skills & charisma to make it to the higher levels of management I'm aware I can improve in both and I accept that, to some extent, it's a laziness and confidence issue. But to some people it seems to come naturally and it's hard not to assume I'm in the majority that aren't exceptional.

ansible 5y ago
If you find a good niche, and develop a lot of domain expertise in that area, you can likely make it to the senior levels of an IC, even if you don't have the most super-awesome technical skills. The trick (and of course there is a trick) is to find a narrow enough niche that you would enjoy working in, where you can get paid well, but isn't so narrow that you have very limited choices regarding who to work for.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I came to realize recently that, despite having been quite ambitious, I never really wanted to rise through the ranks. It took it nice, quite job without management responsibility to show me hoe good it can be to be good in your job and not worry about career advancement. There are other things to spend energy on on life. That's the reason why I am less then thrilled to be pulled into high profile projects lately... Especially those projects will have zero real world impact despite being high profile...
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I think it's kind of rare to find a company that will promote you to "the senior levels of an IC" on just your technical domain expertise. I mean REALLY rare. At most places I've seen, you can get promoted on purely technical knowledge up to a certain level, but beyond that level, you're expected to show "leadership" and "influence" and "cross-team impact" and all that jazz. Same expectation of social skills as if you wanted to take the management track. So no matter which way you go, you ultimately plateau early in your career if you just focus on technical mastery. Businesses are inherently social organizations, and at the higher levels, all require the typical bullshit that you though you left behind in high school: Schmoozing, smooth talking, brown nosing, political savvy, charm, confidence, cutthroat opportunism, those telltale "Ivy League mannerisms" that you see in every VP at your company. I learned this too late in my career, and it's really hard to pivot from "grumpy old man" once you become one!
  - nickd2001 5y ago
    +1 to all that. :) Seems to me that being a senior IC comes with risk of (1) having to take part in political BS, (2) rat-race of being compared to aggressively-climbing-the-ladder peers (if in an org that does that kind of performance nonsense), (3) not having enough time to both keep on top of tech and lead/mentor others / get scope-creeped into doing the job of a manager for non-manager pay. Therefore to me it can be a poison chalice. Instead, one can stay as a mid-level, and do it really well especially if one has a lot of years experience, and be seen as a helpful nice coworker without having to do X hours of mentoring a week to meet some kind of bar. And be less stressed, have more time for family, etc. I think the mid-levels who could've been a senior might be the savvy ones. This will probably of course, come at the expense of lower immediate salary. Long term however this may increase career longevity , more time to learn, less burn-out etc, thus salary hit is less than expected. It might be like investing your pension in a safe utility stock or something, you'll never get rich, but you'll be fine and not have to worry. :) As regards grumpy old men, from what I see its the seniors and architects that are stressed and grumpy, while I get to crank out code happily. ;) Maybe if you're grumpy, going back to mid-level is the cure? ;).
  - dadkins 5y ago
    Yeah, the expectation that _everyone_ excels in leadership and influence leads to some absurd situations, like everyone on a team being "tech lead" for some part of the project. Or the all-"senior" team. Presumably they're all leading each other? Same game goes for cross-functional impact. The whole point of the separate individual ladder was to give an alternate career path to management. What a lie that's turned out to be.
- chakkepolja 5y ago
  Can you give some examples of such fields?
toomuchtodo 5y ago
You could be a technical PM. Bit of a “day walker” with a foot in both the tech and people worlds.
- BadCookie 5y ago
  It seems like all the technical PM jobs require that you’ve already held that title for several years. Or maybe I take job descriptions too literally.
  - karambahh 5y ago
    I have been in a position to hire people repeatedly, and I've done a fair bit of job hopping myself in the last few years. Never let a job description hold you back from applying. You could bring other things to the company, you can acquire knowledge that you currently lack. Apply, discuss and see how it goes.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Apply, apply, apply. Let them make the decision if you’re qualified or not.
    - BadCookie 5y ago
      I appreciate the encouragement!
Supernaut 5y ago
Agreed, and I hope that the three options presented by this author do not in fact constitute ineluctable destiny, because frankly, none of them appeal to me. I don't want to hustle for business and I'm not sufficiently obsessed with my work to become a "senior individual contributor". I've done some management in the past and I don't want to do it again, because humans are a pain in the ass. I'd like to simply continue doing what I'm doing now, which is writing code for my employer, and mostly being left alone to do so. Can that not be arranged?
- jacobr1 5y ago
  > Can that not be arranged? It can, and some companies are fine with that. The challenge is that even with companies that find that arrangement acceptable, many of them aren't willing to pay more for the relevant experience. They want you to be in some kind of higher leverage role. So either you take less pay, get pushed into more responsibility, or you get lucky with a really good company (and that company manages to stay in business without a major management/culture shift).
  - granshaw 5y ago
    Become a contractor. You’ll pretty much be coding all the time. Don’t get scared by the business-management side, you can pick it up pretty quickly and then it doesn’t take up all that much time
krageon 5y ago
> uncomfortable truth: > I'm in the majority that aren't exceptional. That's fine, right? Quite simply most people aren't exceptional, so it is important to learn to be okay with it. Most likely it can benefit you for the rest of your life :)
lostcolony 5y ago
I'll remind you that the higher levels of IC and management also are a narrowing pyramid. The reality is that the expectation is people move up to a certain point through experience, and that at that point most will stay there.
allo37 5y ago
I kind of want to work for a FAANG just to meet these wizards who make you feel humbled by their technical prowess (I assume that's where they all are?). Everywhere I've worked for so far, the senior people have usually: a) Been there a long time; b) Are very knowledgeable about that company and its tech, clients, etc. (see a); Of course, they're skilled technically too, but not in a "I could never dream of being that smart" kind of way.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
larrik 5y ago
> - I know I lack the people skills & charisma to make it to the higher levels of management I'm not convinced this is big deal as you think. Just care about the people you work with and care about doing a good job, and you're better than lots of people succeeding in this role.

ansible 5y ago

If you find a good niche, and develop a lot of domain expertise in that area, you can likely make it to the senior levels of an IC, even if you don't have the most super-awesome technical skills. The trick (and of course there is a trick) is to find a narrow enough niche that you would enjoy working in, where you can get paid well, but isn't so narrow that you have very limited choices regarding who to work for.

hef19898 5y ago
I came to realize recently that, despite having been quite ambitious, I never really wanted to rise through the ranks. It took it nice, quite job without management responsibility to show me hoe good it can be to be good in your job and not worry about career advancement. There are other things to spend energy on on life. That's the reason why I am less then thrilled to be pulled into high profile projects lately... Especially those projects will have zero real world impact despite being high profile...
ryandrake 5y ago
I think it's kind of rare to find a company that will promote you to "the senior levels of an IC" on just your technical domain expertise. I mean REALLY rare. At most places I've seen, you can get promoted on purely technical knowledge up to a certain level, but beyond that level, you're expected to show "leadership" and "influence" and "cross-team impact" and all that jazz. Same expectation of social skills as if you wanted to take the management track. So no matter which way you go, you ultimately plateau early in your career if you just focus on technical mastery. Businesses are inherently social organizations, and at the higher levels, all require the typical bullshit that you though you left behind in high school: Schmoozing, smooth talking, brown nosing, political savvy, charm, confidence, cutthroat opportunism, those telltale "Ivy League mannerisms" that you see in every VP at your company. I learned this too late in my career, and it's really hard to pivot from "grumpy old man" once you become one!
- nickd2001 5y ago
  +1 to all that. :) Seems to me that being a senior IC comes with risk of (1) having to take part in political BS, (2) rat-race of being compared to aggressively-climbing-the-ladder peers (if in an org that does that kind of performance nonsense), (3) not having enough time to both keep on top of tech and lead/mentor others / get scope-creeped into doing the job of a manager for non-manager pay. Therefore to me it can be a poison chalice. Instead, one can stay as a mid-level, and do it really well especially if one has a lot of years experience, and be seen as a helpful nice coworker without having to do X hours of mentoring a week to meet some kind of bar. And be less stressed, have more time for family, etc. I think the mid-levels who could've been a senior might be the savvy ones. This will probably of course, come at the expense of lower immediate salary. Long term however this may increase career longevity , more time to learn, less burn-out etc, thus salary hit is less than expected. It might be like investing your pension in a safe utility stock or something, you'll never get rich, but you'll be fine and not have to worry. :) As regards grumpy old men, from what I see its the seniors and architects that are stressed and grumpy, while I get to crank out code happily. ;) Maybe if you're grumpy, going back to mid-level is the cure? ;).
- dadkins 5y ago
  Yeah, the expectation that _everyone_ excels in leadership and influence leads to some absurd situations, like everyone on a team being "tech lead" for some part of the project. Or the all-"senior" team. Presumably they're all leading each other? Same game goes for cross-functional impact. The whole point of the separate individual ladder was to give an alternate career path to management. What a lie that's turned out to be.
chakkepolja 5y ago
Can you give some examples of such fields?

toomuchtodo 5y ago

You could be a technical PM. Bit of a “day walker” with a foot in both the tech and people worlds.

BadCookie 5y ago
It seems like all the technical PM jobs require that you’ve already held that title for several years. Or maybe I take job descriptions too literally.
- karambahh 5y ago
  I have been in a position to hire people repeatedly, and I've done a fair bit of job hopping myself in the last few years. Never let a job description hold you back from applying. You could bring other things to the company, you can acquire knowledge that you currently lack. Apply, discuss and see how it goes.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Apply, apply, apply. Let them make the decision if you’re qualified or not.
  - BadCookie 5y ago
    I appreciate the encouragement!

Supernaut 5y ago

Agreed, and I hope that the three options presented by this author do not in fact constitute ineluctable destiny, because frankly, none of them appeal to me. I don't want to hustle for business and I'm not sufficiently obsessed with my work to become a "senior individual contributor". I've done some management in the past and I don't want to do it again, because humans are a pain in the ass. I'd like to simply continue doing what I'm doing now, which is writing code for my employer, and mostly being left alone to do so. Can that not be arranged?

jacobr1 5y ago
> Can that not be arranged? It can, and some companies are fine with that. The challenge is that even with companies that find that arrangement acceptable, many of them aren't willing to pay more for the relevant experience. They want you to be in some kind of higher leverage role. So either you take less pay, get pushed into more responsibility, or you get lucky with a really good company (and that company manages to stay in business without a major management/culture shift).
- granshaw 5y ago
  Become a contractor. You’ll pretty much be coding all the time. Don’t get scared by the business-management side, you can pick it up pretty quickly and then it doesn’t take up all that much time

krageon 5y ago

> uncomfortable truth: > I'm in the majority that aren't exceptional. That's fine, right? Quite simply most people aren't exceptional, so it is important to learn to be okay with it. Most likely it can benefit you for the rest of your life :)

lostcolony 5y ago

I'll remind you that the higher levels of IC and management also are a narrowing pyramid. The reality is that the expectation is people move up to a certain point through experience, and that at that point most will stay there.

allo37 5y ago

I kind of want to work for a FAANG just to meet these wizards who make you feel humbled by their technical prowess (I assume that's where they all are?). Everywhere I've worked for so far, the senior people have usually: a) Been there a long time; b) Are very knowledgeable about that company and its tech, clients, etc. (see a); Of course, they're skilled technically too, but not in a "I could never dream of being that smart" kind of way.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

larrik 5y ago

> - I know I lack the people skills & charisma to make it to the higher levels of management I'm not convinced this is big deal as you think. Just care about the people you work with and care about doing a good job, and you're better than lots of people succeeding in this role.