15 ms·

It's been dead for a very long time. It's a carrot that Russia was never going to get. If Scholz is smart (which I doubt) he'll restart/keep open the nuclear po

It's been dead for a very long time. It's a carrot that Russia was never going to get. If Scholz is smart (which I doubt) he'll restart/keep open the nuclear power plants and cut taxes on gas/electricity for households to neutralise the price hikes.

oytis 5y ago
> restart/keep open the nuclear power plants Never going to happen. I would expect looking for alternative suppliers of gas, and developing renewables further.
mcv 5y ago
I was unaware it was dead. I was under the impression that despite the brewing trouble with Russia, Germany was planning to use this pipe to buy more Russian gas. It's possible that Scholtz has different ideas about that than Merkel, I suppose.
- zx85wes 5y ago
  The SPD has always been on the moderate side when it comes to Russia. His Green coalition partners are NATO hawks though.
  - chess_buster 5y ago
    They really are not. Instead, they were friends with the human rights movement and anti-stalinist organisations in Russia (e.g. Мемориал), which got gutted by Putin. So naturally they are not happy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society)
  - darebak 5y ago
    >His Green coalition partners are NATO hawks though. What's their reasoning?
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      I would guess because Russia has shown itself to be a bad actor over and over? They kill/imprison people just for being gay. Imagine what they do to dissidents and those who don't "go with the Russian flow". Dealing with Russia of today is dealing with the devil.
      - darebak 5y ago
        This seems like a caricature and not at all honest.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        Only if you have no fucking clue about anything.
fsh 5y ago
Only 14% of the gas imported to Germany is used for electricity generation [1]. A few nuclear power plants would not make a big difference. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/37985/umfrage/verbrauch-von-erdgas-in-deutschland-nach-abnehmergruppen-2009/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/37985/umfrage...
_ph_ 5y ago
Nuclear plants are not a real replacement to gas. First of all, a lot of gas gets used for heating - nuclear isn't useful there. Then it is used for providing flexible power, to ramp up and down as quickly as possible to follow the production of renewables. Only a small fraction of the gas goes into "base load" usage. So the government might look into the nuclear power plants to dampen the price level for electricity a bit, but that is about it. For the last days, there was a lot of wind in Germany, causing the German wind energy production to sometimes even exceed French nuclear (up to 48GW of wind power). Germany most of all now has to correct the mistakes by the previous government and very quickly has to push for building up more wind and solar capacity.
- qsdf38100 5y ago
  Heat pumps are a thing. Also the problem with wind and pv is insufficient storage. We need additional storage more than additional wind/pv.
- bungle 5y ago
  > First of all, a lot of gas gets used for heating - nuclear isn't useful there All electricity basically turns to heat at some point. So why not?
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    Yes, of course you can heat with electricity - and using heat pumps this is definitely the future. However, the amount of nuclear available would make only a small difference here. It should be much easier to just buy gas internationally and push forward with renewables.
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      You can also use the heat directly (district heating) without having to go to electricity and back. This limits the electricity output efficiency but increases the overall efficiency of the plant. It requires changes to the turbines and the buildout of a district heating system though.
cute_boi 5y ago
Germany needs gas today, not after n years, so making a nuclear plant today is not a good solution. We should be investing in small nuclear plants that China is making for future needs. Restarting old nuclear plants is not solving the problem because it is expensive. And I highly doubt the government would cut taxes. And, buying oil from other countries is expensive. This probably explains why Germany is not supporting Ukraine with fists. If they make Russia angry, the Germans will be enemies of Germany due to social unrest. This is a decision of morality vs economics, and the government will choose economics. I think for now, just like China, Germany is just stopping to appease the mass. But after a month they will take Russian gas.
- rpadovani 5y ago
  > This probably explains why Germany is not supporting Ukraine with fists. And also probably because we don't want a war on our borders? Ukraine was supposed to be a buffer state between NATO and Russia, and then US promised that Ukraine would have joined NATO, and back at the time Germany and France pushed back[0]. But US has only to gain with disorders in the old continent, so here we are... [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Very true, but as with the Iraq war, the guilty are easily found and support for a war quickly comes from the righteous®. Russia actually does have an argument for protecting former Russians in some countries. These are people that suddenly lost their nationality with the collapse of the soviet union and don't want to relieve it in favor of the new countries. That puts them in a situation where they are not allowed to travel because of lacking passports. There is additional discrimination that the population faces. Of course that is not at all an excuse for an invasion. But if you deny that Russia has security interests in that region, you basically are asking for a war. And the Russians have made it very clear that it is seen that way and made their reaction very predictable. Yet, western nations ignored that completely. After what the US media conjured as Russian election interference it certainly drove more animosity towards Russians. Completely irresponsible behavior and not a lesser extend of state propaganda than you would hear from Kremlin media. But people will completely deny this reality due to a religious self-image, even if they know it was bollocks. Shame on those that reiterated that message which was not restricted to the US at all. The US might have some obligations towards Ukraine, as has Great Britain. But I don't think the involvement of the US has been very helpful. Bush wanted to be seen as strong everywhere after 9-11 and that extended to giving Ukraine and Georgia hope of Nato membership. At that time Russia didn't even react much. But the course for the escalation was set. One common factor of those that asked for a strong response, which the west mostly gave with the exception of Germany perhaps, was being profoundly ignorant in how to talk to Russia and its interest. Ukraine has interests too, but there is no solution for them without a dialogue with its neighbor. And just promising to not include Ukraine in a military alliance (it is not just a defensive pact) would have mostly ended the conflict and most arguments. Yet, some people decided not to do that.
benjamir 5y ago
Most major cities on Germany either use district heating or gas (esp. in eastern Germany). Overall, rounded: 48% natural gas, 25% oil, 14% district heating https://www.bmwi-energiewende.de/EWD/Redaktion/Newsletter/2019/10/Meldung/direkt-erfasst_infografik.html https://www.bmwi-energiewende.de/EWD/Redaktion/Newsletter/20... Electrical heating is rare, because it's inefficient. And considering the former energy mix of Germany: not ecological. You don't have to like Scholz, but talking about nuclear in this context and calling the head of a state dumb... ?!?!... doesn't make much sense.

oytis 5y ago

> restart/keep open the nuclear power plants Never going to happen. I would expect looking for alternative suppliers of gas, and developing renewables further.

mcv 5y ago

I was unaware it was dead. I was under the impression that despite the brewing trouble with Russia, Germany was planning to use this pipe to buy more Russian gas. It's possible that Scholtz has different ideas about that than Merkel, I suppose.

zx85wes 5y ago
The SPD has always been on the moderate side when it comes to Russia. His Green coalition partners are NATO hawks though.
- chess_buster 5y ago
  They really are not. Instead, they were friends with the human rights movement and anti-stalinist organisations in Russia (e.g. Мемориал), which got gutted by Putin. So naturally they are not happy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_(society)
- darebak 5y ago
  >His Green coalition partners are NATO hawks though. What's their reasoning?
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    I would guess because Russia has shown itself to be a bad actor over and over? They kill/imprison people just for being gay. Imagine what they do to dissidents and those who don't "go with the Russian flow". Dealing with Russia of today is dealing with the devil.
    - darebak 5y ago
      This seems like a caricature and not at all honest.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        Only if you have no fucking clue about anything.

fsh 5y ago

Only 14% of the gas imported to Germany is used for electricity generation [1]. A few nuclear power plants would not make a big difference. [1] https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/37985/umfrage/verbrauch-von-erdgas-in-deutschland-nach-abnehmergruppen-2009/ https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/37985/umfrage...

_ph_ 5y ago

Nuclear plants are not a real replacement to gas. First of all, a lot of gas gets used for heating - nuclear isn't useful there. Then it is used for providing flexible power, to ramp up and down as quickly as possible to follow the production of renewables. Only a small fraction of the gas goes into "base load" usage. So the government might look into the nuclear power plants to dampen the price level for electricity a bit, but that is about it. For the last days, there was a lot of wind in Germany, causing the German wind energy production to sometimes even exceed French nuclear (up to 48GW of wind power). Germany most of all now has to correct the mistakes by the previous government and very quickly has to push for building up more wind and solar capacity.

qsdf38100 5y ago
Heat pumps are a thing. Also the problem with wind and pv is insufficient storage. We need additional storage more than additional wind/pv.
bungle 5y ago
> First of all, a lot of gas gets used for heating - nuclear isn't useful there All electricity basically turns to heat at some point. So why not?
- _ph_ 5y ago
  Yes, of course you can heat with electricity - and using heat pumps this is definitely the future. However, the amount of nuclear available would make only a small difference here. It should be much easier to just buy gas internationally and push forward with renewables.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    You can also use the heat directly (district heating) without having to go to electricity and back. This limits the electricity output efficiency but increases the overall efficiency of the plant. It requires changes to the turbines and the buildout of a district heating system though.

cute_boi 5y ago

Germany needs gas today, not after n years, so making a nuclear plant today is not a good solution. We should be investing in small nuclear plants that China is making for future needs. Restarting old nuclear plants is not solving the problem because it is expensive. And I highly doubt the government would cut taxes. And, buying oil from other countries is expensive. This probably explains why Germany is not supporting Ukraine with fists. If they make Russia angry, the Germans will be enemies of Germany due to social unrest. This is a decision of morality vs economics, and the government will choose economics. I think for now, just like China, Germany is just stopping to appease the mass. But after a month they will take Russian gas.

rpadovani 5y ago
> This probably explains why Germany is not supporting Ukraine with fists. And also probably because we don't want a war on our borders? Ukraine was supposed to be a buffer state between NATO and Russia, and then US promised that Ukraine would have joined NATO, and back at the time Germany and France pushed back[0]. But US has only to gain with disorders in the old continent, so here we are... [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Very true, but as with the Iraq war, the guilty are easily found and support for a war quickly comes from the righteous®. Russia actually does have an argument for protecting former Russians in some countries. These are people that suddenly lost their nationality with the collapse of the soviet union and don't want to relieve it in favor of the new countries. That puts them in a situation where they are not allowed to travel because of lacking passports. There is additional discrimination that the population faces. Of course that is not at all an excuse for an invasion. But if you deny that Russia has security interests in that region, you basically are asking for a war. And the Russians have made it very clear that it is seen that way and made their reaction very predictable. Yet, western nations ignored that completely. After what the US media conjured as Russian election interference it certainly drove more animosity towards Russians. Completely irresponsible behavior and not a lesser extend of state propaganda than you would hear from Kremlin media. But people will completely deny this reality due to a religious self-image, even if they know it was bollocks. Shame on those that reiterated that message which was not restricted to the US at all. The US might have some obligations towards Ukraine, as has Great Britain. But I don't think the involvement of the US has been very helpful. Bush wanted to be seen as strong everywhere after 9-11 and that extended to giving Ukraine and Georgia hope of Nato membership. At that time Russia didn't even react much. But the course for the escalation was set. One common factor of those that asked for a strong response, which the west mostly gave with the exception of Germany perhaps, was being profoundly ignorant in how to talk to Russia and its interest. Ukraine has interests too, but there is no solution for them without a dialogue with its neighbor. And just promising to not include Ukraine in a military alliance (it is not just a defensive pact) would have mostly ended the conflict and most arguments. Yet, some people decided not to do that.

benjamir 5y ago

Most major cities on Germany either use district heating or gas (esp. in eastern Germany). Overall, rounded: 48% natural gas, 25% oil, 14% district heating https://www.bmwi-energiewende.de/EWD/Redaktion/Newsletter/2019/10/Meldung/direkt-erfasst_infografik.html https://www.bmwi-energiewende.de/EWD/Redaktion/Newsletter/20... Electrical heating is rare, because it's inefficient. And considering the former energy mix of Germany: not ecological. You don't have to like Scholz, but talking about nuclear in this context and calling the head of a state dumb... ?!?!... doesn't make much sense.