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> You're not their customer, you're the product. What is really annoying though is that you are their customer. It's sort of understandable when Google or Face

> You're not their customer, you're the product. What is really annoying though is that you are their customer. It's sort of understandable when Google or Facebook spy on you and monetise your data to profit from the services that they provide you free of monetary charge to you. With Samsung, you've already handed over a few hundred dollars at least for the product. Spying on you as well is like having their customer and eating it. I've always used Samsung's flagship smartphones, since the Galaxy S4. However, as I've become a more conscious consumer in recent years, I've decided that my next phone won't be a Samsung.

rjzzleep 5y ago
I just saw the Samsung S22 and it looks kinda like an iPhone 13, very solid build, comparably compact, it would actually be a good device if it weren't for the fact that the moment you unlock it they trip an e-fuse to make sure you can't use certain things. Sony used to wipe the drm keys to brick the camera on their phones. I had a samsung active2 watch. It advertised ECG, which didn't materialize until almost 2 years after the device was launched. When it finally got released you were only allowed to use that feature if the device was paired to a samsung phone. For the longest time Samsung Pay was showing ads inside the app, like some random third party play store app. Then, one day, I decided to go for a swim and the watch crashes, the speaker sucks water on boot and the device bricks. No button combination allows you to turn off the device without the touch screen. Even though it was an issue for the (IP68 rated) device samsung wanted to charge me $180 to repair it. Basically the price of a new watch 1.5 years ago. Nowadays I look at Sony and Samsung devices and think, man such great looking devices, but wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. EDIT: some people say that in the EU they cannot lock you out of warranty for rooting the device, because non hardware modifications are not cause for warranty removal. But I haven't tried that, so I don't know.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pjerem 5y ago
  > EDIT: some people say that in the EU they cannot lock you out of warranty for rooting the device, because non hardware modifications are not cause for warranty removal. But I haven't tried that, so I don't know. Even if it’s not allowed in Europe, IIRC, unlocking and tripping the e-fuse comes with a new boot screen with a huge "unsecure device" that you can’t get rid of. And you are also definitely locked out of device encryption and Samsung Pay. So even if warranty is not void, you are paying it by not being able to resell your phone (at least at a normal price).
- pnutjam 5y ago
  Motorola has some newer models that seem pretty comparable and the battery actually lasts a day or two. I've been sticking with Motorola for my Android and I've been pretty happy.
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    I only had bad experiences with Motorola but that was years ago.
    - pnutjam 5y ago
      They got bad for awhile, but the 2020+ models have been very nice.
southerntofu 5y ago
> It's sort of understandable when Google or Facebook spy on you and monetise your data to profit from the services that they provide you free of monetary charge to you. I personally don't like that line of reasoning. If you start to justify abusive behavior in the name of making money you're not giving someone for a "service", it's a small leap to reach the conclusion that abusive behavior (and profiting from it) is justified no matter what as long as you've been provided some kind of service. Either it's a gift, or it's a paid service. In neither cases does abusive behavior ever become justified, whether it's from a friend, a neighbor, or a multi-billion dollar company. If your company wants to offer me free donuts, that's your company's choice and does not grant you the right to follow me home and steal my books. Why would it be any different with Silicon Valley companies?
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  Google and FB are unscrupulous and terrible. But it is absurd to insist the only two valid transaction models are offer paid service (which I assume means for money) or gift. Even in your hypothetical, it would not be unreasonable for them to give me a donut in exchange for taking notes on which donut I like and handing me a coupon for my next donut. To me, the issue is not the data collection. It is the lack of transparency.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > To me, the issue is not the data collection. It is the lack of transparency. I don't exactly disagree, but it's hardly comparable. As a human being, i can grasp the notion of giving you 30 minutes of my time to try different cookie flavors and tell you what i think. I could likewise understand the notion/consequences of filling a one-page questionnaire for Facebook's advertisement engine in exchange for free service. But i don't think implicit background data collection on anything they can (my phonebook, really?!) is a reasonable contract, because it's hard to comprehend what are the limits and consequences of that. So it's not just "lack of transparency". I would consider it abusive behavior even if the sign up form read "I WILL FOLLOW AND WATCH YOU EVERYWHERE YOU GO AND TELL ALL MY FRIENDS ABOUT YOUR GREAT ADVENTURES"... especially considering they would probably make it look like a cute pet saying that. I would not consider it abusive behavior if their ad business was *not* collecting any information from the users (except maybe like i said a sign-up questionnaire) and was just doing advertisement.
lordnacho 5y ago
Do you find the smartphone keeps working? I stopped buying Samsung after two phones. About 18 months or so after I got them, some update would make things so slow I needed a new phone. Second time I figured it wasn't the phone being old, it was the update slowing it on purpose. Other phones I've had don't seem to have this problem, updates seem to not change the speed of the UI at all. But I also don't appreciate the customised Android, there doesn't ever seem to be a benefit.
- oikawa_tooru 5y ago
  What other phones have you used?
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    Had a Huawei and now a Google. Neither has died of updates, but I didn't like Huawei making their own Android skin.
- NoboruWataya 5y ago
  I haven't experienced updates making the phone unusably slow, but I do find that they don't hold up as well as you might expect a high-end phone to. The main problem is that the battery goes to shit; not sure if that's a hardware or a software problem. I also find I tend to have trouble with the charging port after a while.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    I have had good luck with batteries by following the charge at 15 percent guideline Samsung moved to. My Note 8 is going on a lot of cycles. Have had it for too long probably. Battery still holds up solid. Older device, Note 5 had a 5 percent warning. Battery went to crap quickly. Avoiding the fast charge helps too. I use it when I need to and just go normal otherwise when I am not time constrained. No charging port trouble. Wireless charging just works. Recently, I got a battery back. Doing it now before I really need it. So far, a year in and a lot more plug in charging and I cannot recommend one more highly. I find I can often run the phone off the back and pretty much never have to allow a deeper discharge. Battery time leveled off and is in a very, very slow decline. YMMV, of course.
sorokod 5y ago
No offence, but the idea that a company will not try to make money of your private data just because you pay them is naive. Doing so would be comitting the cardinal sin of "leaving money on the table".
- rapnie 5y ago
  It is the sad state we've come to in modern-day business. From business savvy to business savagery. Cardinal sin if you don't bash someone's head in, if it makes you a dollar richer.
- wholinator2 5y ago
  I hear what you're saying but maybe we shouldn't be fostering an economy where giant hands scrape every last cent off the table, potentially damage the table and the prospects of others who'd just like to sit there a moment.
  - sorokod 5y ago
    That's right. The only way to deal with this is to accept that the only calculus these companies make is a calculus of tradeoffs. Then make sure that the tradeoffs are correct.
- swamp40 5y ago
  Does Apple make money off your private data?
  - kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
    Good question. Anyone have an answer? I’ve just assumed (hoped?) they don’t rent/sell their customer info, but have absolutely no facts to back that up.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      They do sell your attention via targeted ads in the app store, the news app, and several other places. Do they collect and monetize data beyond those ads? Not that I've heard of.

rjzzleep 5y ago

I just saw the Samsung S22 and it looks kinda like an iPhone 13, very solid build, comparably compact, it would actually be a good device if it weren't for the fact that the moment you unlock it they trip an e-fuse to make sure you can't use certain things. Sony used to wipe the drm keys to brick the camera on their phones. I had a samsung active2 watch. It advertised ECG, which didn't materialize until almost 2 years after the device was launched. When it finally got released you were only allowed to use that feature if the device was paired to a samsung phone. For the longest time Samsung Pay was showing ads inside the app, like some random third party play store app. Then, one day, I decided to go for a swim and the watch crashes, the speaker sucks water on boot and the device bricks. No button combination allows you to turn off the device without the touch screen. Even though it was an issue for the (IP68 rated) device samsung wanted to charge me $180 to repair it. Basically the price of a new watch 1.5 years ago. Nowadays I look at Sony and Samsung devices and think, man such great looking devices, but wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. EDIT: some people say that in the EU they cannot lock you out of warranty for rooting the device, because non hardware modifications are not cause for warranty removal. But I haven't tried that, so I don't know.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pjerem 5y ago
> EDIT: some people say that in the EU they cannot lock you out of warranty for rooting the device, because non hardware modifications are not cause for warranty removal. But I haven't tried that, so I don't know. Even if it’s not allowed in Europe, IIRC, unlocking and tripping the e-fuse comes with a new boot screen with a huge "unsecure device" that you can’t get rid of. And you are also definitely locked out of device encryption and Samsung Pay. So even if warranty is not void, you are paying it by not being able to resell your phone (at least at a normal price).
pnutjam 5y ago
Motorola has some newer models that seem pretty comparable and the battery actually lasts a day or two. I've been sticking with Motorola for my Android and I've been pretty happy.
- lobocinza 5y ago
  I only had bad experiences with Motorola but that was years ago.
  - pnutjam 5y ago
    They got bad for awhile, but the 2020+ models have been very nice.

southerntofu 5y ago

> It's sort of understandable when Google or Facebook spy on you and monetise your data to profit from the services that they provide you free of monetary charge to you. I personally don't like that line of reasoning. If you start to justify abusive behavior in the name of making money you're not giving someone for a "service", it's a small leap to reach the conclusion that abusive behavior (and profiting from it) is justified no matter what as long as you've been provided some kind of service. Either it's a gift, or it's a paid service. In neither cases does abusive behavior ever become justified, whether it's from a friend, a neighbor, or a multi-billion dollar company. If your company wants to offer me free donuts, that's your company's choice and does not grant you the right to follow me home and steal my books. Why would it be any different with Silicon Valley companies?

Hnrobert42 5y ago
Google and FB are unscrupulous and terrible. But it is absurd to insist the only two valid transaction models are offer paid service (which I assume means for money) or gift. Even in your hypothetical, it would not be unreasonable for them to give me a donut in exchange for taking notes on which donut I like and handing me a coupon for my next donut. To me, the issue is not the data collection. It is the lack of transparency.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > To me, the issue is not the data collection. It is the lack of transparency. I don't exactly disagree, but it's hardly comparable. As a human being, i can grasp the notion of giving you 30 minutes of my time to try different cookie flavors and tell you what i think. I could likewise understand the notion/consequences of filling a one-page questionnaire for Facebook's advertisement engine in exchange for free service. But i don't think implicit background data collection on anything they can (my phonebook, really?!) is a reasonable contract, because it's hard to comprehend what are the limits and consequences of that. So it's not just "lack of transparency". I would consider it abusive behavior even if the sign up form read "I WILL FOLLOW AND WATCH YOU EVERYWHERE YOU GO AND TELL ALL MY FRIENDS ABOUT YOUR GREAT ADVENTURES"... especially considering they would probably make it look like a cute pet saying that. I would not consider it abusive behavior if their ad business was *not* collecting any information from the users (except maybe like i said a sign-up questionnaire) and was just doing advertisement.

lordnacho 5y ago

Do you find the smartphone keeps working? I stopped buying Samsung after two phones. About 18 months or so after I got them, some update would make things so slow I needed a new phone. Second time I figured it wasn't the phone being old, it was the update slowing it on purpose. Other phones I've had don't seem to have this problem, updates seem to not change the speed of the UI at all. But I also don't appreciate the customised Android, there doesn't ever seem to be a benefit.

oikawa_tooru 5y ago
What other phones have you used?
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Had a Huawei and now a Google. Neither has died of updates, but I didn't like Huawei making their own Android skin.
NoboruWataya 5y ago
I haven't experienced updates making the phone unusably slow, but I do find that they don't hold up as well as you might expect a high-end phone to. The main problem is that the battery goes to shit; not sure if that's a hardware or a software problem. I also find I tend to have trouble with the charging port after a while.
- ddingus 5y ago
  I have had good luck with batteries by following the charge at 15 percent guideline Samsung moved to. My Note 8 is going on a lot of cycles. Have had it for too long probably. Battery still holds up solid. Older device, Note 5 had a 5 percent warning. Battery went to crap quickly. Avoiding the fast charge helps too. I use it when I need to and just go normal otherwise when I am not time constrained. No charging port trouble. Wireless charging just works. Recently, I got a battery back. Doing it now before I really need it. So far, a year in and a lot more plug in charging and I cannot recommend one more highly. I find I can often run the phone off the back and pretty much never have to allow a deeper discharge. Battery time leveled off and is in a very, very slow decline. YMMV, of course.

sorokod 5y ago

No offence, but the idea that a company will not try to make money of your private data just because you pay them is naive. Doing so would be comitting the cardinal sin of "leaving money on the table".

rapnie 5y ago
It is the sad state we've come to in modern-day business. From business savvy to business savagery. Cardinal sin if you don't bash someone's head in, if it makes you a dollar richer.
wholinator2 5y ago
I hear what you're saying but maybe we shouldn't be fostering an economy where giant hands scrape every last cent off the table, potentially damage the table and the prospects of others who'd just like to sit there a moment.
- sorokod 5y ago
  That's right. The only way to deal with this is to accept that the only calculus these companies make is a calculus of tradeoffs. Then make sure that the tradeoffs are correct.
swamp40 5y ago
Does Apple make money off your private data?
- kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
  Good question. Anyone have an answer? I’ve just assumed (hoped?) they don’t rent/sell their customer info, but have absolutely no facts to back that up.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    They do sell your attention via targeted ads in the app store, the news app, and several other places. Do they collect and monetize data beyond those ads? Not that I've heard of.