4 ms·

Why not build your own tracker that doesn't rely on Apple. You only have to have GPS, LoRaWAN, MCU, battery, and antenna, That's about it.

mckirk 5y ago
You also need a way to communicate back the tracking results, which presumably implies a SIM card and thus more opportunity to get detected (and linked back to you). But yes, in theory you can (and always could) do that. The barrier to entry would be a lot higher though, as all that's needed here is 'microcontroller with Bluetooth'. And that really makes it dangerously easy.
- cure 5y ago
  > You also need a way to communicate back the tracking results, which presumably implies a SIM card and thus more opportunity to get detected (and linked back to you). But yes, in theory you can (and always could) do that. I think gp included the lorawan for that purpose. No SIM required.
  - mckirk 5y ago
    Ah right, I had overlooked that, never having seen the word "lorawan" before. I honestly have no idea how widespread LoRaWAN is, but I would be very surprised if it came anywhere close to the coverage you can achieve using Apple users carrying your uplinks around unwittingly. (Especially if you are attempting to track an Apple user.)
  - scoopertrooper 5y ago
    You'd also need a LoRaWAN network to hook into. But most importantly, I doubt you could build a LoRaWAN tracker as compactly as an AirTag. A beacon would use significantly less electricity and therefore require a smaller battery. Below is one of the smallest LoRaWAN modems on the market, which by itself is marginally bigger than an AirTag. Now add batteries, GPS, antennas, and an SoC to drive the whole thing. https://www.murata.com/en-eu/news/connectivitymodule/lpwa/2021/0217 https://www.murata.com/en-eu/news/connectivitymodule/lpwa/20...
    - Scoundreller 5y ago
      There are some groups building 'armageddon' mesh-based hand-held communicators like Meshtastic. Converged hardware is already there. The network probably is too in more and more metros if you're not within a few km of what you're trying to communicate with/track. https://meshtastic.org https://meshtastic.org Map: https://canvis.app/meshtastic-map https://canvis.app/meshtastic-map
      - cure 5y ago
        There's also the helium network (https://explorer.helium.com/ https://explorer.helium.com/) which has a surprising amount of coverage, especially in urban areas.
      - Friday_ 5y ago
        This looks interesting, but device itself looks like it wouldn't survive fall on the floor, let alone armageddon. Just joking.
        Scoundreller 5y ago
        The case is up to you. I plan on using a plastic food jar :)
kelnos 5y ago
You or I could probably do that, but that's well beyond the technical capabilities of your average would-be stalker.
giaour 5y ago
Can you get onto a lorawan network without some kind of service contract? Seems like it would leave a paper trail for investigators to follow, whereas the pirate AirTags described in the article are anonymous commodity hardware using the victim's Apple devices for connectivity.
- Friday_ 5y ago
  I don't know. Maybe you get signal from tracker ( everyone likewise ) and if somebody ask you if you are the owner of it, you just play dumb.
rahimnathwani 5y ago
Because: - using a cellular modem requires a high capacity battery - if you hide a tracker well, it probably won't have a good GPS reception Apple's BLE-based network solves both of these problems.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  > using a cellular modem requires a high capacity battery The example third party AirTag clone described on the linked page is powered by a full size USB power bank.
  - kayson 5y ago
    Because it's a proof of concept using an ESP32, not because that battery capacity is fundamentally necessary for the idea to work. It could easily be optimized for power and size. Sure, it will have to use more power than a vanilla airtag, because it's doing (slightly) more, but not enough to make a significant difference.
- Friday_ 5y ago
  Those are not problems that needed to be solved. Problem is: 1. Precise location of tracked object, now This is actually one problem and Apple didn't solve it very well, airtag doesn't work in real-time. You only get updates when there are people near object that uses iphone.
  - quenix 5y ago
    > You only get updates when there are people near object that uses iphone. Ok? In practice, this is most of the time. In most reasonable use cases (i.e. excluding the Sahara desert or some remote mountain).
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    > Those are not problems that needed to be solved. An AirTag might help me find my keys if they fall out of my pocket in a restaurant restroom. A cellular-based tracker won't because (1) it will be out of battery, and (2) it won't have a GPS signal.

mckirk 5y ago

You also need a way to communicate back the tracking results, which presumably implies a SIM card and thus more opportunity to get detected (and linked back to you). But yes, in theory you can (and always could) do that. The barrier to entry would be a lot higher though, as all that's needed here is 'microcontroller with Bluetooth'. And that really makes it dangerously easy.

cure 5y ago
> You also need a way to communicate back the tracking results, which presumably implies a SIM card and thus more opportunity to get detected (and linked back to you). But yes, in theory you can (and always could) do that. I think gp included the lorawan for that purpose. No SIM required.
- mckirk 5y ago
  Ah right, I had overlooked that, never having seen the word "lorawan" before. I honestly have no idea how widespread LoRaWAN is, but I would be very surprised if it came anywhere close to the coverage you can achieve using Apple users carrying your uplinks around unwittingly. (Especially if you are attempting to track an Apple user.)
- scoopertrooper 5y ago
  You'd also need a LoRaWAN network to hook into. But most importantly, I doubt you could build a LoRaWAN tracker as compactly as an AirTag. A beacon would use significantly less electricity and therefore require a smaller battery. Below is one of the smallest LoRaWAN modems on the market, which by itself is marginally bigger than an AirTag. Now add batteries, GPS, antennas, and an SoC to drive the whole thing. https://www.murata.com/en-eu/news/connectivitymodule/lpwa/2021/0217 https://www.murata.com/en-eu/news/connectivitymodule/lpwa/20...
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    There are some groups building 'armageddon' mesh-based hand-held communicators like Meshtastic. Converged hardware is already there. The network probably is too in more and more metros if you're not within a few km of what you're trying to communicate with/track. https://meshtastic.org https://meshtastic.org Map: https://canvis.app/meshtastic-map https://canvis.app/meshtastic-map
    - cure 5y ago
      There's also the helium network (https://explorer.helium.com/ https://explorer.helium.com/) which has a surprising amount of coverage, especially in urban areas.
    - Friday_ 5y ago
      This looks interesting, but device itself looks like it wouldn't survive fall on the floor, let alone armageddon. Just joking.
      - Scoundreller 5y ago
        The case is up to you. I plan on using a plastic food jar :)

kelnos 5y ago

You or I could probably do that, but that's well beyond the technical capabilities of your average would-be stalker.

giaour 5y ago

Can you get onto a lorawan network without some kind of service contract? Seems like it would leave a paper trail for investigators to follow, whereas the pirate AirTags described in the article are anonymous commodity hardware using the victim's Apple devices for connectivity.

Friday_ 5y ago
I don't know. Maybe you get signal from tracker ( everyone likewise ) and if somebody ask you if you are the owner of it, you just play dumb.

rahimnathwani 5y ago

Because: - using a cellular modem requires a high capacity battery - if you hide a tracker well, it probably won't have a good GPS reception Apple's BLE-based network solves both of these problems.

LeoPanthera 5y ago
> using a cellular modem requires a high capacity battery The example third party AirTag clone described on the linked page is powered by a full size USB power bank.
- kayson 5y ago
  Because it's a proof of concept using an ESP32, not because that battery capacity is fundamentally necessary for the idea to work. It could easily be optimized for power and size. Sure, it will have to use more power than a vanilla airtag, because it's doing (slightly) more, but not enough to make a significant difference.
Friday_ 5y ago
Those are not problems that needed to be solved. Problem is: 1. Precise location of tracked object, now This is actually one problem and Apple didn't solve it very well, airtag doesn't work in real-time. You only get updates when there are people near object that uses iphone.
- quenix 5y ago
  > You only get updates when there are people near object that uses iphone. Ok? In practice, this is most of the time. In most reasonable use cases (i.e. excluding the Sahara desert or some remote mountain).
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  > Those are not problems that needed to be solved. An AirTag might help me find my keys if they fall out of my pocket in a restaurant restroom. A cellular-based tracker won't because (1) it will be out of battery, and (2) it won't have a GPS signal.