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> In fact, they can only be solved by unusually smart people Wut? Have you actually ever met a person who can't? I always suspected the electoral majority is n

> In fact, they can only be solved by unusually smart people Wut? Have you actually ever met a person who can't? I always suspected the electoral majority is not particularly bright (which sort of contradicts the idea of near-100 being an average IQ nevertheless) but if this is "unusually smart" then things feel really creepy.

dzqhz 5y ago
The average IQ by definition is 100. In civilised countries it is above that.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  That's why I wrote near-100 rather than 100. I know it can be closer to 110 or to 80 in specific countries/states. Pollution is proven to harm average IQ, other aspects of the living conditions during childhood can harm average person mental development also. It has been mentioned here on HN a number of times that childhood lead poisoning harmed mental development of a huge part of American population.
- dylan604 5y ago
  In some definitions of civil, the US would not qualify.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
I never met one in person, but in email support, yes. And it makes sense. Statistically, an IQ of 100 is the population median, meaning, assuming a Gaussian repartition (which it usually is for human traits), that's about 10% of people scoring around 80 or lower. To give an idea of what level of intelligence this means, we can wonder what that kind of people cannot do? In the US, the military don't do a systematic IQ test for recruitment, but when they did one, it was deemed illegal to induct any one if they possessed an IQ less than or equal to 81. That means 1 person out of 10 is not intelligent enough to be in the lowest rank in the army. It's not far fetched to think of the possibility that some functioning members of society are not capable of solving mental problems most humanity think are trivial. In fact, that are also trivial for AI, although we may all end up to fall into that basket one day or the other.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rndgermandude 5y ago
>Wut? Have you actually ever met a person who can't? I have met a few, yes, including people who are intellectually limited (colloquially called "dumb"), people who were born or acquired mental handicaps, people who are suffering most likely suffering from dyscalculia (dyslexia for arithmetic/numbers). E.g. we think my grandma might have had a milder form of the latter, as she had a lot of trouble adding up numbers in particular, which would have made this CAPTCHA very hard for her - but not impossible. And a friend of my mom has Turner syndrome, which is linked to dyscalculia, and she is indeed very bad at basic math.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    I don't see why my grandma - if she was still alive - or my mom's friend wouldn't be booking Airbnbs; people of at least "average" intelligence by the way, except for their issues with basic math. My mom's friend is an avid global traveler in fact, and if I remember correctly she used Airbnb on several occasions in the past, and yes, she does her own bookings.
  - crimthrw2022 5y ago
    If technology doesn't make things easier, what's the point of it?
    - redsparrow 5y ago
      Well, this is a cynical answer, but I think in this case: make money. Making things easier is one way to use technology to make money. Having a significant market share and making it difficult for others to enter the market is another way to use technology to make money. There was (probably) a point in history where AirBnB existed to make things easier. Now I'm pretty sure it's just there to make money.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
krageon 5y ago
> Have you actually ever met a person who can't? Certainly, when I read this I immediately thought of three.
selfhifive 5y ago
I have met people who can't and people who won't. Also, a lot of people in their 50s and above aren't solving this.
- VincentEvans 5y ago
  I’m 43. What exactly happens once I turn 50 that I will no longer be able to add a couple of single digit numbers? Incidentally, how old are you, and do you have any involvement with IT hiring?
  - lambic 5y ago
    A study was making the rounds last week saying that the brain stays "sharp" until 60. Presumably 60 is an average which means people in their 50s will start to see some decline.
    - VincentEvans 5y ago
      I think they should do some studies whether there’s any basis to my observation of a sudden sharp rise in IQ among SDEs once they reach mid-30ies, as they seem to suddenly want to be treated as adults and no longer fall for foosball tables, slides, colorful company attire, and free vending machine lunches as a substitute for being treated like people. ;) Coming back to the topic, it’s interesting how this IQ cliff seems to exclusively affect ICs in IT, while somehow spares all of the middle and upper management, that all seems to be on top of their compensation game as they gracefully age ever so upwards in titles.
- discreteevent 5y ago
  I think you would need some statistics to back up the over 50s argument. If I were to give an instinctive opinion it would be that under 40s are poor at mental arithmetic because they have always had a machine to do it for them whereas over 50s can split a bill in their heads quite quickly.
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
I know some quite clever people who could not solve this, for different reasons. One of the brightest, quickest witted people I know experiences significant dyslexia and dyscalculia. She would fail at this and it would make her quietly angry at you for making her go through it. I also know someone with a vision disorder who would struggle. Hell, when I am tired, I would have to close one eye to pass -- I have this issue with quite a lot of captchas, and I am not legally vision-impaired. And I would be angry at the developer for making me struggle. Furthermore, I think in a world with an ageing population it might be worth considering that puzzles like this are a bit like early dementia tests. It's worth thinking what data gets collected when the world is asked to perform brainteasers to gain access to essential functions.
galbar 5y ago
I personaly know some people for whom solving OP's puzzle would require enough effort and take long enough that they'd just complain and drop it.
johndough 5y ago
Here is a video about how to solve this captcha. The comments clearly indicate that many people are having trouble with this kind of captcha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGl2SMg4rU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGl2SMg4rU4
jjav 5y ago
> Have you actually ever met a person who can't? Regardless of the answer to that, it focuses on the wrong problem. The problem is the user-hostile concept of captchas in the first place. Imagine going to a brick and mortar store (or travel agency) and being forced to solve some ridiculous puzzle to be allowed inside to do a transaction. It's not ok in physical life, it's not ok on a commerce website.

dzqhz 5y ago

The average IQ by definition is 100. In civilised countries it is above that.

qwerty456127 5y ago
That's why I wrote near-100 rather than 100. I know it can be closer to 110 or to 80 in specific countries/states. Pollution is proven to harm average IQ, other aspects of the living conditions during childhood can harm average person mental development also. It has been mentioned here on HN a number of times that childhood lead poisoning harmed mental development of a huge part of American population.
dylan604 5y ago
In some definitions of civil, the US would not qualify.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

I never met one in person, but in email support, yes. And it makes sense. Statistically, an IQ of 100 is the population median, meaning, assuming a Gaussian repartition (which it usually is for human traits), that's about 10% of people scoring around 80 or lower. To give an idea of what level of intelligence this means, we can wonder what that kind of people cannot do? In the US, the military don't do a systematic IQ test for recruitment, but when they did one, it was deemed illegal to induct any one if they possessed an IQ less than or equal to 81. That means 1 person out of 10 is not intelligent enough to be in the lowest rank in the army. It's not far fetched to think of the possibility that some functioning members of society are not capable of solving mental problems most humanity think are trivial. In fact, that are also trivial for AI, although we may all end up to fall into that basket one day or the other.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rndgermandude 5y ago

>Wut? Have you actually ever met a person who can't? I have met a few, yes, including people who are intellectually limited (colloquially called "dumb"), people who were born or acquired mental handicaps, people who are suffering most likely suffering from dyscalculia (dyslexia for arithmetic/numbers). E.g. we think my grandma might have had a milder form of the latter, as she had a lot of trouble adding up numbers in particular, which would have made this CAPTCHA very hard for her - but not impossible. And a friend of my mom has Turner syndrome, which is linked to dyscalculia, and she is indeed very bad at basic math.

oneoff786 5y ago
- rndgermandude 5y ago
  I don't see why my grandma - if she was still alive - or my mom's friend wouldn't be booking Airbnbs; people of at least "average" intelligence by the way, except for their issues with basic math. My mom's friend is an avid global traveler in fact, and if I remember correctly she used Airbnb on several occasions in the past, and yes, she does her own bookings.
- crimthrw2022 5y ago
  If technology doesn't make things easier, what's the point of it?
  - redsparrow 5y ago
    Well, this is a cynical answer, but I think in this case: make money. Making things easier is one way to use technology to make money. Having a significant market share and making it difficult for others to enter the market is another way to use technology to make money. There was (probably) a point in history where AirBnB existed to make things easier. Now I'm pretty sure it's just there to make money.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago

krageon 5y ago

> Have you actually ever met a person who can't? Certainly, when I read this I immediately thought of three.

selfhifive 5y ago

I have met people who can't and people who won't. Also, a lot of people in their 50s and above aren't solving this.

VincentEvans 5y ago
I’m 43. What exactly happens once I turn 50 that I will no longer be able to add a couple of single digit numbers? Incidentally, how old are you, and do you have any involvement with IT hiring?
- lambic 5y ago
  A study was making the rounds last week saying that the brain stays "sharp" until 60. Presumably 60 is an average which means people in their 50s will start to see some decline.
  - VincentEvans 5y ago
    I think they should do some studies whether there’s any basis to my observation of a sudden sharp rise in IQ among SDEs once they reach mid-30ies, as they seem to suddenly want to be treated as adults and no longer fall for foosball tables, slides, colorful company attire, and free vending machine lunches as a substitute for being treated like people. ;) Coming back to the topic, it’s interesting how this IQ cliff seems to exclusively affect ICs in IT, while somehow spares all of the middle and upper management, that all seems to be on top of their compensation game as they gracefully age ever so upwards in titles.
discreteevent 5y ago
I think you would need some statistics to back up the over 50s argument. If I were to give an instinctive opinion it would be that under 40s are poor at mental arithmetic because they have always had a machine to do it for them whereas over 50s can split a bill in their heads quite quickly.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

I know some quite clever people who could not solve this, for different reasons. One of the brightest, quickest witted people I know experiences significant dyslexia and dyscalculia. She would fail at this and it would make her quietly angry at you for making her go through it. I also know someone with a vision disorder who would struggle. Hell, when I am tired, I would have to close one eye to pass -- I have this issue with quite a lot of captchas, and I am not legally vision-impaired. And I would be angry at the developer for making me struggle. Furthermore, I think in a world with an ageing population it might be worth considering that puzzles like this are a bit like early dementia tests. It's worth thinking what data gets collected when the world is asked to perform brainteasers to gain access to essential functions.

galbar 5y ago

I personaly know some people for whom solving OP's puzzle would require enough effort and take long enough that they'd just complain and drop it.

johndough 5y ago

Here is a video about how to solve this captcha. The comments clearly indicate that many people are having trouble with this kind of captcha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGl2SMg4rU4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGl2SMg4rU4

jjav 5y ago

> Have you actually ever met a person who can't? Regardless of the answer to that, it focuses on the wrong problem. The problem is the user-hostile concept of captchas in the first place. Imagine going to a brick and mortar store (or travel agency) and being forced to solve some ridiculous puzzle to be allowed inside to do a transaction. It's not ok in physical life, it's not ok on a commerce website.