6 ms·

Plumbers are in high demand too, but if you are a plumber with depression, lack of experience, that doesn't want to touch waste pipes or shower units, and live

Plumbers are in high demand too, but if you are a plumber with depression, lack of experience, that doesn't want to touch waste pipes or shower units, and live in the sticks, it won't apply to you either

pietromenna 5y ago
Ditto!
jokoon 5y ago
I know, but it's not like employers are begging people to work for them either. The job market has always been a market that favors employers, not candidates, whatever the domain of work.
- horsawlarway 5y ago
  No - At some levels and in some locations the employers literally are begging people to come work for them. If you're outside the US, that may be a big factor - but my guess is it's a "you problem" based on what you've said above.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >At some levels and in some locations the employers literally are begging people to come work for them. Begging is useless without payment to match. >If you're outside the US, that may be a big factor The jobs market outside of the US is nearly orders of magnitude worse, especially in some EU countries. The attitude, leverage and power balance devs in the US enjoy over their employers is far greater than anywhere else.
    - horsawlarway 5y ago
      I mean... we're interviewing and it's about as close to begging as a company can get. - We allow any code submission in lieu of having to do something custom for us (adds quite a bit of time and cost to review) - We pay you for the time interviewing - We have all interviewers send thank you emails afterwards - We offer to give you specific feedback about why we decline to make an offer if we decline - We accept re-applications in 12 months - 6 if you can show meaningful self improvement (ex: bootcamps, school, specific projects, addressing feedback from above) - We have above normal pay/benefits for the area we're in Basically - we spend between 3 and 5 grand on each interviewee just for time spent, not accounting for the initial lead generation time and not accounting for the bonus we pay for recommendations from current staff when hired (12-20k in that case, depending on level).
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        I wasn't referring to your company, but to the attitude of the companies in my (EU) area. What your company is doing far exceeds what I saw here and saddens me to a degree that I don't live in the US.
        horsawlarway 5y ago
        Consider applying for remote jobs at US based companies. It's a lot easier now than it was 3 years ago - lots of places in my area that would have previously hired only for local offices are now accepting full time remote from a wide swath of areas. The biggest challenge is usually the tax implications for the company of making a foreign hire - it's hard to be the first remote hire from a new region/country (mainly because it's really expensive up front to get a wrap on the legal side) but relatively easy to be the second. I'd avoid the traditional US hotspots (ex: silicon valley/NYC) and go for places in the south/southeast (Atlanta/Austin/Raleigh/Tampa/Nashville).
  - jokoon 5y ago
    It's easier to blame individuals instead of blaming the system. We will just disagree from here, that's okay. I left a comment to give my point of view, not to get a lesson on life or some patronizing, coaching motivational advice from an internet stranger.

pietromenna 5y ago

Ditto!

jokoon 5y ago

I know, but it's not like employers are begging people to work for them either. The job market has always been a market that favors employers, not candidates, whatever the domain of work.

horsawlarway 5y ago
No - At some levels and in some locations the employers literally are begging people to come work for them. If you're outside the US, that may be a big factor - but my guess is it's a "you problem" based on what you've said above.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >At some levels and in some locations the employers literally are begging people to come work for them. Begging is useless without payment to match. >If you're outside the US, that may be a big factor The jobs market outside of the US is nearly orders of magnitude worse, especially in some EU countries. The attitude, leverage and power balance devs in the US enjoy over their employers is far greater than anywhere else.
  - horsawlarway 5y ago
    I mean... we're interviewing and it's about as close to begging as a company can get. - We allow any code submission in lieu of having to do something custom for us (adds quite a bit of time and cost to review) - We pay you for the time interviewing - We have all interviewers send thank you emails afterwards - We offer to give you specific feedback about why we decline to make an offer if we decline - We accept re-applications in 12 months - 6 if you can show meaningful self improvement (ex: bootcamps, school, specific projects, addressing feedback from above) - We have above normal pay/benefits for the area we're in Basically - we spend between 3 and 5 grand on each interviewee just for time spent, not accounting for the initial lead generation time and not accounting for the bonus we pay for recommendations from current staff when hired (12-20k in that case, depending on level).
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      I wasn't referring to your company, but to the attitude of the companies in my (EU) area. What your company is doing far exceeds what I saw here and saddens me to a degree that I don't live in the US.
      - horsawlarway 5y ago
        Consider applying for remote jobs at US based companies. It's a lot easier now than it was 3 years ago - lots of places in my area that would have previously hired only for local offices are now accepting full time remote from a wide swath of areas. The biggest challenge is usually the tax implications for the company of making a foreign hire - it's hard to be the first remote hire from a new region/country (mainly because it's really expensive up front to get a wrap on the legal side) but relatively easy to be the second. I'd avoid the traditional US hotspots (ex: silicon valley/NYC) and go for places in the south/southeast (Atlanta/Austin/Raleigh/Tampa/Nashville).
- jokoon 5y ago
  It's easier to blame individuals instead of blaming the system. We will just disagree from here, that's okay. I left a comment to give my point of view, not to get a lesson on life or some patronizing, coaching motivational advice from an internet stranger.