5 ms·

As someone who added CAPTCHA to their own platform recently after resisting for years because of how much I hate them, I have to tell you that the unfortunate t

As someone who added CAPTCHA to their own platform recently after resisting for years because of how much I hate them, I have to tell you that the unfortunate truth is that eventually bad actors ruin the party for everyone on every platform. CAPTCHA is necessary for the same reason locking your car/house is necessary. You can probably not do it 9 times out of 10 and it will be fine, but then that 1/10 happens, all your stuff gets stolen, and you start locking your doors 100% of the time.

gpderetta 5y ago
Well, CAPTCHA is more like locking your store and then asking your customers to pick the lock.
- cbg0 5y ago
  You're comparing solving a typically simple puzzle with breaking and entering.
  - wink 5y ago
    You're saying that but in ~2007 I wanted to sign up to Steam and simply gave up after like 10 failed Captchas. I think I made my account around 3 years later.
  - mnd999 5y ago
    Breaking and entering is not particularly difficult, in fact it's probably easier than a lot of CAPTCHAs. The reason people inclined to do illegal / immoral things don't do it is the likelihood of getting caught and the consequences therein. Of course most people aren't spammers or burglars so in most cases it doesn't matter.
    - gpderetta 5y ago
      The Lockpicking Lawyer should publish videos comparing times to break a locks vs solving captchas :)
      - mnd999 5y ago
        The way he does it (non-destructive, undetectable) is extremely difficult though. I was assuming most people would go for sledgehammer / crowbar / bolt cutters.
- thinkindie 5y ago
  I think CAPTCHAs are more fitting the analogy of metal detectors at banks or sensitive places.
  - gpderetta 5y ago
    It is a good analogy. On the other hand, it would be quite jarring if I had to go through a metal detector just to buy groceries. On the third hand, I understand US schools have metal detectors these days, and in Beijing I had to go through a metal detector to hop on the metro, so what do I know...
joosters 5y ago
That's a terrible analogy. Are you saying that once a visitor completes a captcha on your website, they can steal all your stuff? In that case, the problem is with you and your website security.
- wastedhours 5y ago
  Seems like an apt analogy - adding in friction for the small minority of instances where someone would undertake an action you don't want them to. Not literally "if I don't make someone choose 5 firetrucks out of 9 pictures they're going to steal my stuff".
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  > That's a terrible analogy Well, a more apt one would be that someone breaks into your house or car and puts all their litter everywhere so that you have to spend hours or days cleaning. Sometimes I don't get the logic of these spambot creators. Do they honestly believe that creating thousands of fake accounts with links to "hot dating site" in my webshop will help them in any way? These data are completely invisible outside (why would anyone want to present their customer data to the world).
  - pjerem 5y ago
    > Well, a more apt one would be that someone breaks into your house [...] and puts all their litter everywhere so that you have to spend hours or days cleaning. wow, this actually happened to a coworker. He waked up one day discovering a broken window and human excrement everywhere. For sure he closes everything now.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Sometimes I don't get the logic of these spambot creators. Do they honestly believe that creating thousands of fake accounts with links to "hot dating site" in my webshop will help them in any way? These data are completely invisible outside (why would anyone want to present their customer data to the world). The goal is link building[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_building https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_building
MattGaiser 5y ago
A friend of mine had a startup that they wanted to be disability friendly as a large part of their community was from that group, so they avoided CAPTCHA for a long time. Eventually they even added it. Spam and vandalism was just too bad.
- matsemann 5y ago
  Unless it's a big site that will get targeted specifically, custom solutions can be made without being such a hassle. Lichess have you move a chess piece. Forums I've used have had a simple question ala "what is 4 + five". A newspaper has a question based on the article before you can comment to prove you read it. These are much better for the users, you share less data with Google and others, and are fairly trivial to implement. Easy to circumvent, but spammers aren't looking at you specifically.
weird-eye-issue 5y ago
Somebody tries to break into your house 10% of the time you leave?
- kingofpandora 5y ago
  > Somebody tries to break into your house 10% of the time you leave? Option A: 10% of time their unlocked house is broken into. Option B: The poster was using an analogy to illustrate a point.
  - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
    My joke did not work this time
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I run a community forum and have done so for over ten years. Spam accounts is a regular occurrence, but thanks to various services (akismet, stop forum spam), captchas, and simple word / behaviour filters (anyone with <10 posts that tries to post a link or image gets flagged) we've been able to avoid our users from seeing much spam. There's a few that come through, I wonder if those are real people. Anyway, at one point we decided to just block the IP ranges from countries like Russia and Vietnam, which seemed to have the most spam accounts.
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  Spam on a “community forum” is a whole different world than all of the potential damages criminals can cause on a platform like Airbnb.

gpderetta 5y ago

Well, CAPTCHA is more like locking your store and then asking your customers to pick the lock.

cbg0 5y ago
You're comparing solving a typically simple puzzle with breaking and entering.
- wink 5y ago
  You're saying that but in ~2007 I wanted to sign up to Steam and simply gave up after like 10 failed Captchas. I think I made my account around 3 years later.
- mnd999 5y ago
  Breaking and entering is not particularly difficult, in fact it's probably easier than a lot of CAPTCHAs. The reason people inclined to do illegal / immoral things don't do it is the likelihood of getting caught and the consequences therein. Of course most people aren't spammers or burglars so in most cases it doesn't matter.
  - gpderetta 5y ago
    The Lockpicking Lawyer should publish videos comparing times to break a locks vs solving captchas :)
    - mnd999 5y ago
      The way he does it (non-destructive, undetectable) is extremely difficult though. I was assuming most people would go for sledgehammer / crowbar / bolt cutters.
thinkindie 5y ago
I think CAPTCHAs are more fitting the analogy of metal detectors at banks or sensitive places.
- gpderetta 5y ago
  It is a good analogy. On the other hand, it would be quite jarring if I had to go through a metal detector just to buy groceries. On the third hand, I understand US schools have metal detectors these days, and in Beijing I had to go through a metal detector to hop on the metro, so what do I know...

joosters 5y ago

That's a terrible analogy. Are you saying that once a visitor completes a captcha on your website, they can steal all your stuff? In that case, the problem is with you and your website security.

wastedhours 5y ago
Seems like an apt analogy - adding in friction for the small minority of instances where someone would undertake an action you don't want them to. Not literally "if I don't make someone choose 5 firetrucks out of 9 pictures they're going to steal my stuff".
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> That's a terrible analogy Well, a more apt one would be that someone breaks into your house or car and puts all their litter everywhere so that you have to spend hours or days cleaning. Sometimes I don't get the logic of these spambot creators. Do they honestly believe that creating thousands of fake accounts with links to "hot dating site" in my webshop will help them in any way? These data are completely invisible outside (why would anyone want to present their customer data to the world).
- pjerem 5y ago
  > Well, a more apt one would be that someone breaks into your house [...] and puts all their litter everywhere so that you have to spend hours or days cleaning. wow, this actually happened to a coworker. He waked up one day discovering a broken window and human excrement everywhere. For sure he closes everything now.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Sometimes I don't get the logic of these spambot creators. Do they honestly believe that creating thousands of fake accounts with links to "hot dating site" in my webshop will help them in any way? These data are completely invisible outside (why would anyone want to present their customer data to the world). The goal is link building[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_building https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_building

MattGaiser 5y ago

A friend of mine had a startup that they wanted to be disability friendly as a large part of their community was from that group, so they avoided CAPTCHA for a long time. Eventually they even added it. Spam and vandalism was just too bad.

matsemann 5y ago
Unless it's a big site that will get targeted specifically, custom solutions can be made without being such a hassle. Lichess have you move a chess piece. Forums I've used have had a simple question ala "what is 4 + five". A newspaper has a question based on the article before you can comment to prove you read it. These are much better for the users, you share less data with Google and others, and are fairly trivial to implement. Easy to circumvent, but spammers aren't looking at you specifically.

weird-eye-issue 5y ago

Somebody tries to break into your house 10% of the time you leave?

kingofpandora 5y ago
> Somebody tries to break into your house 10% of the time you leave? Option A: 10% of time their unlocked house is broken into. Option B: The poster was using an analogy to illustrate a point.
- weird-eye-issue 5y ago
  My joke did not work this time

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

I run a community forum and have done so for over ten years. Spam accounts is a regular occurrence, but thanks to various services (akismet, stop forum spam), captchas, and simple word / behaviour filters (anyone with <10 posts that tries to post a link or image gets flagged) we've been able to avoid our users from seeing much spam. There's a few that come through, I wonder if those are real people. Anyway, at one point we decided to just block the IP ranges from countries like Russia and Vietnam, which seemed to have the most spam accounts.

seattle_spring 5y ago
Spam on a “community forum” is a whole different world than all of the potential damages criminals can cause on a platform like Airbnb.