6 ms·

Wow. I thought one of the cool things living in a European city was how many local stores within walking distance of most housing in urban centers.

by vondur 5y ago

Vinnl 5y ago
Yeah, I can't imagine this ever being worth the VC money where I'm from for this reason. But who knows.
- itronitron 5y ago
  In my opinion, most of these ventures will fail (or be consolidated) because they aren't charging as much as they could for the service. As a result most of their business is probably delivering pints of Ben and Jerry's to people after all of the stores have closed.
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    How much could they charge, and why? At least where I'm from with a supermarket always nearby, the convenience factor is going to be worth something, but they'll always have to compete with just picking things up yourself, which I'm assuming will always cost a lot less. Doesn't feel like there's room for a whole lot of margin on top of that.
    - itronitron 5y ago
      There are probably two main segments of customer for this service. Customer A cares about convenience, and customer B cares about saving time (also logistics). One could argue that they are the same thing, but there is a difference in degree. Customer B can arguably save an hour of their time by having a large order of groceries delivered. How much is that time worth? Ten dollars/euros is an easy minimum value to set. That will probably turn away most prospective customers but the remaining customers that do use the service will be buying a lot more groceries per trip.
      - Vinnl 5y ago
        It's not just about how much that time is worth to them, but also how much cheaper the alternative is. For example, when we're talking about large orders of groceries, the "regular" supermarkets can already deliver that to you at a price of around €5. I don't see people paying significantly more than that just to be able to have it delivered within ten minutes, because that usually doesn't result in significant additional time savings. (I also imagine that even at a €10 price point, delivering large orders within ten minutes will still be loss-making, which I suppose is fine if you're trying to eliminate competition, but not if you're going to be unable to raise those prices in the long term.)
        itronitron 5y ago
        I agree, I wasn't really thinking about 10 minute delivery. And I think grocery stores could charge more for delivery, but there seems to be some implicit cost-savings for them to deliver which offsets the need for a higher delivery charge. My main thought is that I think there is a larger opportunity to provide delivery of a higher quality service and that the current delivery startups seem to be focused on the bottom rung. Taking restaurants as an example... Where I live, I can order food delivery in under one hour from hundreds of restaurants that is almost guaranteed to be crap. It would be nice to be able to order direct from a better restaurant and have it be edible. I would be willing to schedule this days in advance and for a specific time in the evening, almost like a reservation. But no one to my knowledge has presented this as an option to restaurants or consumers. Instead everything is haphazard which imposes a burden on restaurant kitchens and results in unpredictable results for customers.
TillE 5y ago
I'm truly baffled about how these services seem fairly popular in Berlin. I literally live across the street from one supermarket, and within a 5 minute walk from 3-4 others. Yet one of these grocery delivery services has a warehouse right down my street. If you have a disability or you're quarantining it seems fantastic, but otherwise...just go to the grocery store??
- agp152 5y ago
  I don’t like waiting in line. Also, German grocery stores are not as nice as in the US or NL. Basic food, long lines, very rude staff.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    > German grocery stores are not as nice as in the US I've used both and German stores seem to me to be ok. US stores are also ok although the quality of fresh produce seems to be less good and generally the fresh baked goods are much worse.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  I'm in your exact situation, but... going to the store. Putting stuff in a cart. Waiting in line, like sibling said. Unloading it from the cart. Reloading it in the cart. Carrying it home. I just described several steps that are a complete monotonous waste of my time and that I consider unpleasant and that someone else is willing to do for me if I give them a sum of money I can afford not to care about. That's amazing, imo. (At least for me; I don't know how amazing it is for them, even if I tip highly.) It is kind of funny, but, hey, humans are kind of funny. I'd rather not even walk outside for a minute to throw my trash into the bins; if I could leave it outside my door and have a person/robot pick it up, that'd be sweet. :p You can take this to an extreme, where you eliminate every unpleasant task via some magical means, and that world sounds like paradise. Cue dystopic collapse of some kind.
  - itronitron 5y ago
    >> Cue dystopic collapse of some kind You mean like living out your days in a life-sustaining pod that automatically flushes your waste products away while your body provides electricity to the grid?
bogomipz 5y ago
Yes that is one of the cool things and it's not just European cities but it's true for living in any walking city or even living in a walkable part of a city. And yet here we are. These have sprouted up in NYC and London as well, with all the same concerns. What I can't understand is why someone would pay all of that money to live in a city like Amsterdam, London or NYC and not wan't to go out and interact with their environment and neighborhood. What's further confounding is that after 2 years of forced isolation via lockdowns and work from home that people would not relish the opportunity to get out of their small apartments and appreciate the walking, window shopping, and people watching that comes with it.

Wow. I thought one of the cool things living in a European city was how many local stores within walking distance of most housing in urban centers.

by vondur 5y ago

Wow. I thought one of the cool things living in a European city was how many local stores within walking distance of most housing in urban centers.

Vinnl 5y ago

Yeah, I can't imagine this ever being worth the VC money where I'm from for this reason. But who knows.

itronitron 5y ago
In my opinion, most of these ventures will fail (or be consolidated) because they aren't charging as much as they could for the service. As a result most of their business is probably delivering pints of Ben and Jerry's to people after all of the stores have closed.
- Vinnl 5y ago
  How much could they charge, and why? At least where I'm from with a supermarket always nearby, the convenience factor is going to be worth something, but they'll always have to compete with just picking things up yourself, which I'm assuming will always cost a lot less. Doesn't feel like there's room for a whole lot of margin on top of that.
  - itronitron 5y ago
    There are probably two main segments of customer for this service. Customer A cares about convenience, and customer B cares about saving time (also logistics). One could argue that they are the same thing, but there is a difference in degree. Customer B can arguably save an hour of their time by having a large order of groceries delivered. How much is that time worth? Ten dollars/euros is an easy minimum value to set. That will probably turn away most prospective customers but the remaining customers that do use the service will be buying a lot more groceries per trip.
    - Vinnl 5y ago
      It's not just about how much that time is worth to them, but also how much cheaper the alternative is. For example, when we're talking about large orders of groceries, the "regular" supermarkets can already deliver that to you at a price of around €5. I don't see people paying significantly more than that just to be able to have it delivered within ten minutes, because that usually doesn't result in significant additional time savings. (I also imagine that even at a €10 price point, delivering large orders within ten minutes will still be loss-making, which I suppose is fine if you're trying to eliminate competition, but not if you're going to be unable to raise those prices in the long term.)
      - itronitron 5y ago
        I agree, I wasn't really thinking about 10 minute delivery. And I think grocery stores could charge more for delivery, but there seems to be some implicit cost-savings for them to deliver which offsets the need for a higher delivery charge. My main thought is that I think there is a larger opportunity to provide delivery of a higher quality service and that the current delivery startups seem to be focused on the bottom rung. Taking restaurants as an example... Where I live, I can order food delivery in under one hour from hundreds of restaurants that is almost guaranteed to be crap. It would be nice to be able to order direct from a better restaurant and have it be edible. I would be willing to schedule this days in advance and for a specific time in the evening, almost like a reservation. But no one to my knowledge has presented this as an option to restaurants or consumers. Instead everything is haphazard which imposes a burden on restaurant kitchens and results in unpredictable results for customers.

TillE 5y ago

I'm truly baffled about how these services seem fairly popular in Berlin. I literally live across the street from one supermarket, and within a 5 minute walk from 3-4 others. Yet one of these grocery delivery services has a warehouse right down my street. If you have a disability or you're quarantining it seems fantastic, but otherwise...just go to the grocery store??

agp152 5y ago
I don’t like waiting in line. Also, German grocery stores are not as nice as in the US or NL. Basic food, long lines, very rude staff.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  > German grocery stores are not as nice as in the US I've used both and German stores seem to me to be ok. US stores are also ok although the quality of fresh produce seems to be less good and generally the fresh baked goods are much worse.
shrimp_emoji 5y ago
I'm in your exact situation, but... going to the store. Putting stuff in a cart. Waiting in line, like sibling said. Unloading it from the cart. Reloading it in the cart. Carrying it home. I just described several steps that are a complete monotonous waste of my time and that I consider unpleasant and that someone else is willing to do for me if I give them a sum of money I can afford not to care about. That's amazing, imo. (At least for me; I don't know how amazing it is for them, even if I tip highly.) It is kind of funny, but, hey, humans are kind of funny. I'd rather not even walk outside for a minute to throw my trash into the bins; if I could leave it outside my door and have a person/robot pick it up, that'd be sweet. :p You can take this to an extreme, where you eliminate every unpleasant task via some magical means, and that world sounds like paradise. Cue dystopic collapse of some kind.
- itronitron 5y ago
  >> Cue dystopic collapse of some kind You mean like living out your days in a life-sustaining pod that automatically flushes your waste products away while your body provides electricity to the grid?

bogomipz 5y ago

Yes that is one of the cool things and it's not just European cities but it's true for living in any walking city or even living in a walkable part of a city. And yet here we are. These have sprouted up in NYC and London as well, with all the same concerns. What I can't understand is why someone would pay all of that money to live in a city like Amsterdam, London or NYC and not wan't to go out and interact with their environment and neighborhood. What's further confounding is that after 2 years of forced isolation via lockdowns and work from home that people would not relish the opportunity to get out of their small apartments and appreciate the walking, window shopping, and people watching that comes with it.