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Ontario government staffer fired after $100 donation to Ottawa convoy

• nelsz 5y ago
• pupdogg 5y ago
  I don’t think I’ve ever seen any public signs that explicitly state “Protesting Permitted”…with that in mind, I guess any protest can be called an occupation. Some very sad times we’re living through!
  • option 5y ago
    In democracies, what is not forbidden IS permitted. Also, many democratic counties explicitly state the right to a “peaceful assembly”
    • OJFord 5y ago
      That is generally true, but I think nothing to do with democracy per se? It's just more practical to black-list behaviours than white-list them isn't it?
    • landemva 5y ago
      What you describe, right to act if not explicitly prohibited, is usually associated with a constitution. The constitution crystallizes the structure. A democracy is the larger group voting to take whatever they want from the smaller group. Some democracies are constrained in what they can take by a constitution, and others not so much.
      • lowkey 5y ago
        In the case of Canada, the right to freedom of assembly is enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is the highest law of the land and supercedes all other laws and acts, even the Emergencies Act, which by law must conform to the charter. That is why despite claims by the government and the police that these protests or occupations are unlawful, no one - not a single person has been charge with protesting illegally. The most the police could do was charge the leaders with mischief. Instead of charging the protesters, the police have been rounding them up, driving around in circles, and then letting them go free. This is not because the police are being kind. It is because they don’t want to risk a court challenge of charter violations which would set a dangerous precedent that would risk the future credibility of the government and the police in similar situations.
        • landemva 5y ago
          Is there a form of declaratory judgment in the courts? To get controversy settled.
  • zuminator 5y ago
    I have definitely seen "parade route" signs taped to lampposts in advance in my city. Pretty sure that most large protests require permits and advance notice so that extra police can be made available, traffic can be rerouted, the protest's own route and scope can be approved. Because otherwise every protest would outdo the next to take the most disruptive form possible, so as to get maximum publicity.
  • krastanov 5y ago
    Large protests routinely coordinate with police, get permits, etc. "Peaceful assembly" rights of protestors have always been in conflict with "being able to cross the sidewalk / being able to sleep at night" rights of bystanders. In most countries there are administrative processes to get permits for large demonstrations, protests, or even just getting the police to block off streets for you to use (even if the message is against the police).
  • landemva 5y ago
    In USA when the two big political organizations have their State(s) and then national convention, they have a protest / free speech zone. It's usually near where convention delegates can walk and is enclosed by a separation fence.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• BarrySeal 5y ago
  Well, good thing this sort of open-ended extrajudicial punishment with no possibility of due process or appeal will only be used against Politically Bad people, so we don't have to worry about it.
  • snarkerson 5y ago
  • cjbgkagh 5y ago
    • dang 5y ago
      Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents.
  • flowersjeff 5y ago
  • sudosysgen 5y ago
    You can fire your employees for PR reasons in Canada. There is no due process or appeal, because it's a valid reason to fire your employees as a politician. If you don't like this, you can lobby for stronger labour protections. If she was a government employee, then she wouldn't have been fired, as their union would have protected them.
    • ipaddr 5y ago
      She will get paid probably a month pay for every year worked.
• dang 5y ago
  All: this is a divisive topic. It's also an interesting new phenomenon. That makes it on topic for HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), and also makes it vulnerable to the tedious, nasty flamewar that we're trying to avoid on HN. Therefore, if you're going to post in a thread like this, could you please review the site guidelines first and make sure to stick to them? Note this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." Remember that on this site we want curious conversation. Here's an old sentence of pg's that captures the desired spirit: Comments should be written in the spirit of colleagues cooperating in good faith to figure out the truth about something, not politicians trying to ridicule and misrepresent the other side.
• kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  "unlawful, illegal occupation" Has it been established that that is what it was? Serious question, I didn't follow the details closely enough.
  • unethical_ban 5y ago
    I think that's important. I don't have citations, but my understanding is that what the truckers are doing directly is illegal, but that police haven't taken action in order to avoid violence or to fuel the grievances of the protesters. Is it illegal or violent to donate to them?
    • pletsch 5y ago
      The federal government made it illegal with the emergencies act, this donation almost certainly came before that though. More relevant is that the Ontario government asked a court (which was granted) to freeze all funds related to the convoy. So maybe not illegal as much as just a terrible look for the party.
  • 542458 5y ago
    Canada’s protest laws are different (and much more limited) than those of the US. Any protest that significantly disturbs the peace is not protected. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art2c.html https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/chec...
    • ktkoffroth 5y ago
      Isn't significantly disturbing the peace kinda the entire point of protest? I would wager many of the protests and demonstrations done during the Civil Rights Movement in the US "significantly disturbed" the peace, and yet they were effective at creating needed change.
      • bombcar 5y ago
        A protest almost by definition is a disturbance of the peace - otherwise it’s just a gathering of like minded people doing something.
• basisword 5y ago
  Ignoring the wider issues, is this specific headline concerning or interesting? Of course they would be fired. They’re contributing money to a protest movement against their bosses that is deemed unlawful. You can’t expect to work for the government and fund a movement against that same government.
  • briHass 5y ago
    Why not? Is everyone that works for the government supposed to hold exactly the same opinions and political leanings? If a staffer in a Republican area of the US donated to BLM and was fired, would there be a different reaction?
    • MattGaiser 5y ago
      She doesn't work for the government, but rather is a political staffer of the government of the day. So imagine that the communications director to the Lieutenant Governor of a GOP state donated to BLM.
    • mbfg 5y ago
      i would certainly expect your scenario to play out as you stated.
    • pjc50 5y ago
      Some organisations are simply illegal to give money to; this has long been a "War On Terror" thing. It is not clear whether that actual process applied here or whether this is just private action.
    • zuminator 5y ago
      Certainly in the US if you are an at-will private employee you can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all, except for explicitly protected classes. Political affiliation is not a protected class, at least not on a Federal level, although a few states have varying degrees of protection [0] that may have protected this staffer. As for government employees, the situation is more complicated. If you are a low-level government employee, your political affiliation is not valid grounds for being terminated. However, employees who are considered as placed in "policymaking" [1] roles, which would include being an "adviser" [1] of some sort, would be able to be terminated according to US standards. [0] https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/politics-at-work.aspx https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/... [1] Elrod v. Burns, 427 U.S. 347 (1976). Also see Rutan v. Republican Party of Illinois, 497 U.S. 62 (1990).
• yial 5y ago
  Honest question, it seems this was tied to her via initials and email… Couldn’t anyone in theory have made a donation in her name ? Or with those pieces of information if they knew them?
  • zinekeller 5y ago
    That's what's reported here, but considering that it already happened maybe there's a more incriminating detail not disclosed (i.e. bank/card details)? Otherwise it would be definitely a hasty fire.
  • rightbyte 5y ago
    Maybe she didn't deny it like the other person in the article? Maybe she thought the state would not fire dissidents for donating to rallies/strike blockades. It says something about Canadian labour laws. I guess it is a culture thing. In France these kind of protests are very common.
  • tylersmith 5y ago
    Those are concerns for due process, which is out the window in this situation.
    • d_e_solomon 5y ago
      What exact due process are we looking for here? If I donate to an extremist organization, and my boss finds out, is he required to still continue to employ me? Or can my boss only fire me if a government takes me to court? Is my boss allowed to fire me because my job performance is poor? Or does he have to wait till the government puts me in jail for being a shitty sys admin? I do find this idea that speech doesn't carry consequences really foreign and odd.
      • ipaddr 5y ago
        If your boss is firing you for your political beliefs you might have a lawsuit. Anyone who doesn't vote for the candidate Google's ceo decides will be fired?
• MattGaiser 5y ago
  It is kind of unclear, but in this case, she is not a regular government employee but rather the political staffer of a minister of the government (who in Canada is also an elected official that sits in the legislature). So this isn't like the government terminating a bureaucrat, but rather like a member of congress firing one of their staff.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • enkid 5y ago
    I'm not clear on the process in Canada. Is this like being a political appointee or more like a traditional government employee? I would certainly understand firing a congressional staffer who was working for a democratic senator and donated to defend the Proud Boys, or equivalent or let's say a Rand Paul staffer who donated to Hillary Clinton's campaign. It shows a conflict of interest. I don't think it would be appropriate to do the same for a GS employee unless that group was advocating the violent overthrow of the constitution.
    • 542458 5y ago
      The person who was fired appears to be non-OPSEU, so she’s not an employee of the Ontario government. My understanding is that she’s the employee of a political organization (in this case, the organization that acts on the behalf a political appointee).
      • Scoundreller 5y ago
        Plenty of non-union workers in government, and (not as many as there used to be) unionized workers in non-government.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
    • MattGaiser 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• john_moscow 5y ago
  This sort of highlights how the dividing mechanism works. You pick a group of people known for some fairly reasonable (asking to end mandates that have little effect given the ~90% vaccination rate anyway) and other unreasonable (blocking highways) actions, and you switch focus from the exact actions to affiliation and support. Then you can convince the public to turn against your political enemies by framing their support for the cause as support for the unreasonable actions, ignoring any good faith intent they might have had. You double down on this by finding some fringe groups (e.g. actual neo-nazis) sharing the same identity (e.g. being white) and linking them to the person you are trying to destroy, and the public eats it up, completely ignoring the matter of the discourse. The only way we can stop it is start distinguishing between affiliation and concrete actions. "Blocking traffic is bad" or "vaccines should be available, but not enforced if the hospitals are not overflowing" are much less divisive statements than "freedom convoy and all their supporters are bad". Edit: funny how this comment's karma keeps swinging up and down. I guess, this take itself is somehow divisive these days. I truly wonder what stance could be accepted a fair compromise by both sides...
  • nathanaldensr 5y ago
    You're arguing using logic against those who, as I've said elsewhere in this thread, are fully ensconced in the red vs. blue, left vs. right, us vs. them primitive human false dichotomy.
  • frabbit 5y ago
    I wonder if there are other interesting things going on with a desire for safety. The language used of "hurt" and "healing" in some of the press conferences and the lawsuit makes it seem like the feelings police are in charge in Canada and they're going to make sure you're happy: https://youtu.be/wZK5ixf4o7Q?t=699 https://youtu.be/wZK5ixf4o7Q?t=699 In this interview with a resident of the downtown area who seems to have had to initiate legal injunctions while the police and apparently all the city authorities did nothing I am torn between sympathy for someone being inconvenienced and a sneaking feeling that an unpleasant situation is being exaggerated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G86OL0YyHw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G86OL0YyHw I was watching those after listening to the excellent Bungacast which tries to dissect the recent use of "trauma studies" to understand the evolution of the neo-liberal state under its most recent pressures https://bungacast.com/2021/12/14/231-new-class-analysis-ft-catherine-liu/ https://bungacast.com/2021/12/14/231-new-class-analysis-ft-c... Canada does not seem as though its ready to deal very minor, low-level political dissent and is incompetently defaulting to maximum authoritarianism. Latest news seems to be that a woman was trampled and seriously injured by a police horse.
• joemazerino 5y ago
  We are at that point in history where your financial moves will have direct impact on your life. The small fish even, those who donate $100, are no longer too small to cancel. This is a tragedy. Leaked, hacked data being used to fire and harass everyday people is a slippery slope that we are already slipping down.
  • jszymborski 5y ago
    In the not so distant past, a staffer supporting white supremacists financially would get you an invitation to certain BBQs or a pat on the back. Today, it's increasingly (although not universally) a liability. I'm OK living in a world with consequences for supporting secessionists and white supremacists. No idea why this is flagged. The organisers of the occupation and the GoFundMe are known to be white nationalists or neo-nazis. https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
    • mdoms 5y ago
      You seem to be implying that the protestors were white supremacists, do you have a source for that claim?
      • jszymborski 5y ago
        Take a look at the organizers: 1 - Tamara Lich, secessionist and founder of the Maverick Party which has some unkind words for immigrants https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gun-maverick-party-calgary-canada-1.5728875 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jay-hill-wexit-top-gu... 2 - BJ Dichter - Promoter of the "political islam" and "great replacement" theory https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... 3 - Pat King - Member of far-right hate group Canada Unity https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga...
        • 5y ago
• mdoms 5y ago
  Hopefully she sues GiveSendGo for leaking the source of her anonymous donation.
  • magicjosh 5y ago
    Seems like a valid next step, hold leaky honeypots accountable. Anyone holding onto user data these days should be nervous.
• Canada 5y ago
  I wonder if the authorities will be as quick to prosecute the leaker, who openly admits in public to breaking the law, as they are to attack the doners who have broken no laws and are entitled to privately support whatever side they choose.
  • purple_ferret 5y ago
    Didn't he just query a publicly accessibly s3 bucket? What law did he break exactly?
    • option 5y ago
      Even if the info was easily accessible, it seems to me that distributing PII should be against some laws.
    • josephcsible 5y ago
      If you forget to lock the door to your house, am I allowed to go inside and start taking pictures of everything?
      • dzhiurgis 5y ago
        More fair analogy would be leaving your stuff outside, than inside but under unlocked door.
    • Canada 5y ago
      I believe so, and that is a fair question. Also, I haven't seen proof that he was the only one. Did you watch the videos he posted? If so, what do you think about the situation? The whole thing is an awful mess.
    • flavius29663 5y ago
      So if you use a version of Windows that is not updated and has a backdoor, is that fair game for "hackers" as well? It is "publicly accessible" for all intents and purposes. When does it become fair game? In the first day? 100th day? after 2 years?
• samwillis 5y ago
  Does anyone have a good link to a rundown of the situation in Ottawa and how it’s come about? As someone somewhat out of the loop on the situation I would love to read up on what actually has happened and why. Here in the UK we have a fair bit of political controversy of our own dominating the papers so it’s not had much coverage (as far as I can see, although I may live under a rock).
  • mdoms 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest
    • LewisVerstappen 5y ago
      Do you think wikipedia is a good resource for (insanely) controversial topics like this? (I'm genuinely asking the question. I really don't intend to be snarky or anything.) From my personal experience, wikipedia seems to be a great resource for uncontroversial topics (like a math theorem or something) but can be extremely biased.
      • Fidelix 5y ago
        It is absurdly biased, you're not alone in that experience, it is patently obvious that wikipedia is extremely left-biased
        • JaimeThompson 5y ago
          • lordloki 5y ago
          • ipaddr 5y ago
• tomohawk 5y ago
  Persons unknown hack givesendgo. They publish this on social media, doxing the people making donations. Are persons unknown a government agency acting as black hat hackers, or are they actually private persons. Either way, is it right for Twitter to leave this information up? What if it turns out to be a government agency? How is it right for a government to make use of information obtained in this way? What about due process rights? It's one thing for a private employer to fire an at will employee, but don't we expect our government officials to follow due process?
  • Canada 5y ago
    It isn't persons unknown... credit has been claimed.
  • hihihihi1234 5y ago
    • dang 5y ago
      Your account has been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle. We ban such accounts, regardless of what they're battling for or against, because they destroy the curious conversation that HN exists for. It's not hard to see how a comment like this could make its substantive point without battle rhetoric. Please do that instead from now on, and please make sure you're using HN primarily for intellectual curiosity, which is a completely different mode of usage. For more explanation see these links: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bimodal%20battle&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
      • hihihihi1234 5y ago
        Okay, sorry.
• bjt2n3904 5y ago
  There is the question: can this be legally done? Then there is the question: should this be done? XKCD 1357 has long been championed by those who would quickly answer yes to both questions. Freedom of speech is not just a legal matter, it's a principle of a free society. Once the public stops supporting it for altruistic reasons, they'll quickly find out, this process comes for you too.
• daenz 5y ago
  I am envisioning a world where employees undergo regular transaction background checks to ensure that they align with their employers stated mission. Is it inevitable?
  • solarhoma 5y ago
    With the world nearing a cashless society it will be easy for intelligence services to serve this data on a silver platter.
  • FpUser 5y ago
    That would make us no better than China with their social credit system.
    • codechad 5y ago
  • xqcgrek2 5y ago
    Already happens. Here you can lookup anyone in the US https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/ https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/
  • throwaway81523 5y ago
    They already frequently ask for your social media handles and sometimes for your passwords.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • yucky 5y ago
    The progressive utopia we've always dreamed of.
    • dang 5y ago
      Would you please stop using HN for ideological battle? You've been doing primarily that, and that's the line at which we ban accounts, regardless of what they're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
• jlos 5y ago
  I think this is just one example of the continued erosion of private space. We see innocuous examples in social media platforms where day to day life becomes performance, pornography where the intimate becomes a public display, twitter where otherwise passing thoughts become matters of public record, and now where private financial support of political causes can be openly used against someone.
  • irthomasthomas 5y ago
    • dang 5y ago
      Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? You've unfortunately been doing that repeatedly, and we ban accounts that do that, regardless of which ideology they're battling for or against. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. Also, please make sure you're not using the site primarily for ideological battle, because we ban accounts that do that as well. This is not the same rule as the above—it's an additional one. For more explanation, see these links: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bimodal%20battle&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
      • irthomasthomas 5y ago
        That is fine. Can you define "ideological flamewar comments", because I honestly did not expect that quoting the WEF verbatim would count. Yes, it is contoversial, and perhaps posting that single sentance triggers your flamewar notice, but I always consider my comments carefuly and my goal is always to inform, not inflame. I think that most people would be interested in the fact that the WEF is working toward a world where we have no property and no privacy. And I am keen to hear what my HN colleagues think about that. Can you also please let me know which of my previously comments you consider flamewar? That way I can adapt my writing to better fit. Thank you.
• throwaway4good 5y ago
  What is the definition of "political staffer" here? Is that someone who is hired as an assistant by an elected politician (i.e. a spin doctor)? And in general is booted out if the someone new gets elected in. Or is it a civil servant who would stay on regardless if the politician change? In the former case, it is understadable that you would want someone under you who shares your politics. In the latter case obviously it shouldn't take place.
  • MattGaiser 5y ago
    > Is that someone who is hired as an assistant by an elected politician (i.e. a spin doctor)? And in general are booted out if the someone new gets elected in. Or is a civil servant who would stay on regardless if the politicians change? The former.
• kodah 5y ago
  I don't watch the news so I had a lot of catching up to do. I found this source: https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-orga... More or less, some of the organizers have been tied to xenophobic statements and political movements. Others have been tied to militias. Others are just normal people.
  • frabbit 5y ago
    You also forget that the government of Canada invoked an act intended to be used in the most extreme circumstances when normal political, democratic processes were obviously impossible to follow. In addition they have induced GoFundMe and the banks to interfere with the privately held accounts of individuals and publically raised funds. All this after weeks of doing little to nothing and apparently not negotiating with the protestors. This would all be understandable, but questionable, in a war situation. It is very disturbing, to say the least, to see the sledgehammer of this act being used to crack the relatively small nut of a noisy, inconvenient petition for redress of wrongs by people who seem to still accept that they are citizens of a democratic state. (Also, this is all the fault of the USA. Or the Russians. )
    • kodah 5y ago
      This is fault of the US or Russia how?
      • frabbit 5y ago
        Most media here has suggested variously that they are "concerned about Russian influence", that the majority of the funding has come from the United States etc. They're whipping up a new War on Terror (currently funded by US extremists) in order to justify increased police militarization and the use of extra-ordinary and unnecessary measures. They are saying they cannot deal with the situation normally while simultaneously refusing to meet with the truckers and eschewing ordinary policing for weeks beforehand. Yanis Varoufakis is onto something with the death of of social democracy and capitalism and their mutation into something new and nasty. Can't wait to see what happens when the irreversible climate change starts to affect people's standard of living.
• stjohnswarts 5y ago
  This is dumb. The government shouldn't limit free speech (donations) from regular citizens.
• throwaway81523 5y ago
  The few times I've donated money to anything in the past decade or so, including to relatively uncontroversial recipients, I've done it by mailing cash in an envelope with no return address. That was partly to avoid cancellation, but also it was to avoid the recipient putting me on a donor list so they could keep hounding me for more. In one case the recipient became controversial after I sent the cash (earlier it had only been a little bit edgy or fringey) so I'm glad that I used that approach. Not worth getting hassled over $20.
• ryandrake 5y ago
  I think one of the things people are forgetting lately is that civil disobedience, while a legitimate part of protest, historically has carried with it consequences. Rosa Parks was jailed. So was Martin Luther King. If you're out there trying to fight the system, you have to expect the system to fight back a little. What we're seeing in the past couple of years is this expectation that civil disobedience be easy and consequence-free. "I'll just go down to the protest, snap some pics for my insta, and then go do my laundry later in the evening." "Oh, let's fly over to the Capitol, break some windows, and then next week continue our respectable jobs as realtors like nothing happened." I think this new batch of middle-class, suburbanite, generally older, and yes, predominantly white protestors is a little shocked to learn what other protesters in the past have known for quite a while.
  • a_shovel 5y ago
    • passing_by_and 5y ago
      BLM in Minneapolis burned down a few blocks of the city and killed people[1]. This person gave $100 so people could buy food. Losing your job is not mild. This behaviour is not something we should encourage for anyone whether we agree with their views or not. [1] - https://www.startribune.com/death-of-man-found-in-torched-mpls-pawnshop-ruled-a-homicide/572807552/ https://www.startribune.com/death-of-man-found-in-torched-mp...
      • a_shovel 5y ago
  • nathanaldensr 5y ago
    Your comment has shades of "freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences," which in my opinion is used to put all the responsibility onto the speakers and none on the reactions of the recipients of the message. I'm not saying your intent was to communicate that, but I feel like that's often the interpretation. People aren't forgetting that civil disobedience means being uncomfortable, hurt, or jailed. For example, just because a protester reacts with contempt about what the mounted police did to two people doesn't mean that they were naive about the possibilities it might happen. One is a conscious, thinking awareness and the other an emotional reaction. Both can exist at the same time.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• throwaway81523 5y ago
  Is there a simple explanation of why these donation aggregators like GSG even exist? If I want to donate money to X, why can't I send the money directly to X instead of through an intermediary like GSG?
• guilhas 5y ago
  This goes to show that the freedom convoy does represents and has support from a varied and large part of the population Every action this government takes makes the situation more cringe... Imagine Russian government doing anything closer, it would be 24/7 TV coverage how authoritarian dictator goes against the people