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I fully approve of the underlying idea that education is a good and valuable thing and that encouraging people / children to seek knowledge themselves is the on

I fully approve of the underlying idea that education is a good and valuable thing and that encouraging people / children to seek knowledge themselves is the only sensible way. But come on. We do not run chemistry undergraduate courses by letting the students in the building and just leaving them there. A chemistry set is not enough. Teachers, mentors, peers and all the rest are part of both shaping and accelerating learning. A child given chemicals who then "stupidly" poisons themselves is not solely to blame. They are expected to be supervised. If we as a society cannot afford enough teachers we should not say "let's hand out chemistry sets - we will get a few industrial chemists at the cost of a few poisonings". That is not trade off to be discussed - we should talk about why is chemistry not taught better at every primary and secondary school?

Hizonner 5y ago
One of the things a person ought to learn is how to learn outside of an institutional setting. Completely alone if need be. That includes risk assessment, by the way. This does not mean that kids' chemistry sets should include low-dose deadly poisons, but teachers are not a substitute for being able to learn things on your own. A person who can only function in a social setting is just as incomplete as a person who cannot function in a social setting. Maybe more so.
WalterBright 5y ago
Oh phooey. I got a chemistry set at age 10 complete with bunsen burners and acids. Had a great time with it. The notion of sticking any of it in my mouth never occurred to me. The quantities of the chemicals weren't much, so there wasn't a whole lot of damage to be done with it. A bunsen burner is much less dangerous than a candle. I didn't learn a whole lot about chemistry with it, but later when I took chemistry classes I had some experience to flesh out the abstract instruction. BTW, at Caltech, I noticed that quite a high percentage of students had played around with things that explode while kids. One told me his explosive hydrogen balloon had burned a 3' diameter hole in his home's roof. I asked him how he hid that from his parents. He said he patched it with a tarp, and when his parents weren't home he repaired it. They never found out, and he learned to be much more careful. Also, the reason Caltech's JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) exists is because some rocket experimenters on campus had had some terrific explosions. The residential neighborhood got nervous about that and forced them outside the (then) city limits. It was called the Jet lab instead of the Rocket lab to allay the locals' fears about it. You might also enjoy Homer Hickham's biography "October Sky" about how playing with rockets as a kid led directly to his career at NASA.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  P.S. My dad refused to let me buy those Estes rockets. He didn't trust me :-) he was probably right. I did make my own rocket fuel on a couple occasions. I also built a flame thrower. No, I'm not going to describe it, so don't ask. All that went away when I discovered cars. Gasoline, oil, and V8 engines. That thrill has never ever abated in me. My ancient heavily modified dodge makes me very happy. If I was starting my career over today, I'd probably camp on SpaceX's doorstep until they relented and allowed me to work on those Raptor engines. I'd do it for minimum wage.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Oh, let's face facts. I'd do it for food and coffee.
    - kragen 5y ago
      Would you really refuse to work for them, given the chance, if the price for doing so were to provide your own food and coffee?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        Never give away your negotiating power before you start!
- int_19h 5y ago
  We made things that explode. If you have enough matches to scrape, and a tight enough container, many things are possible.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I didn't try that with matches, as I knew that packed matches are very unstable and likely to blow up in your face. I did spend a lot of time trying to engineer a multi-stage bottle rocket. I finally got one to work, it was awesome! The cluster engine bottle rockets never did work. Happy times.

Hizonner 5y ago

One of the things a person ought to learn is how to learn outside of an institutional setting. Completely alone if need be. That includes risk assessment, by the way. This does not mean that kids' chemistry sets should include low-dose deadly poisons, but teachers are not a substitute for being able to learn things on your own. A person who can only function in a social setting is just as incomplete as a person who cannot function in a social setting. Maybe more so.

WalterBright 5y ago

Oh phooey. I got a chemistry set at age 10 complete with bunsen burners and acids. Had a great time with it. The notion of sticking any of it in my mouth never occurred to me. The quantities of the chemicals weren't much, so there wasn't a whole lot of damage to be done with it. A bunsen burner is much less dangerous than a candle. I didn't learn a whole lot about chemistry with it, but later when I took chemistry classes I had some experience to flesh out the abstract instruction. BTW, at Caltech, I noticed that quite a high percentage of students had played around with things that explode while kids. One told me his explosive hydrogen balloon had burned a 3' diameter hole in his home's roof. I asked him how he hid that from his parents. He said he patched it with a tarp, and when his parents weren't home he repaired it. They never found out, and he learned to be much more careful. Also, the reason Caltech's JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) exists is because some rocket experimenters on campus had had some terrific explosions. The residential neighborhood got nervous about that and forced them outside the (then) city limits. It was called the Jet lab instead of the Rocket lab to allay the locals' fears about it. You might also enjoy Homer Hickham's biography "October Sky" about how playing with rockets as a kid led directly to his career at NASA.

WalterBright 5y ago
P.S. My dad refused to let me buy those Estes rockets. He didn't trust me :-) he was probably right. I did make my own rocket fuel on a couple occasions. I also built a flame thrower. No, I'm not going to describe it, so don't ask. All that went away when I discovered cars. Gasoline, oil, and V8 engines. That thrill has never ever abated in me. My ancient heavily modified dodge makes me very happy. If I was starting my career over today, I'd probably camp on SpaceX's doorstep until they relented and allowed me to work on those Raptor engines. I'd do it for minimum wage.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Oh, let's face facts. I'd do it for food and coffee.
  - kragen 5y ago
    Would you really refuse to work for them, given the chance, if the price for doing so were to provide your own food and coffee?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Never give away your negotiating power before you start!
int_19h 5y ago
We made things that explode. If you have enough matches to scrape, and a tight enough container, many things are possible.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I didn't try that with matches, as I knew that packed matches are very unstable and likely to blow up in your face. I did spend a lot of time trying to engineer a multi-stage bottle rocket. I finally got one to work, it was awesome! The cluster engine bottle rockets never did work. Happy times.