10 ms·

Ask HN: What books are recommended to learn the semiconductor industry?

106 points by allie1 5y ago

I want to understand the ins and outs of the semiconductor industry. What resources would you recommend for beginner, intermediary and technical person?

momentum115 5y ago
This blog has been very helpful to follow the recent trends and players from an investors standpoint - https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com
tdullien 5y ago
"The history of semiconductor engineering" was a great read.
adhesive_wombat 5y ago
ITRS roadmaps were a very interesting read up to 2017 when they were stopped: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Technology_Roadmap_for_Semiconductors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Technology_Roa... I haven't looked at the IRDS roadmaps, but they're free with some registration to the IEEE.
sgeisenh 5y ago
Hard to answer this question well without a little bit of additional context. I'm very focused on the software side of things, so I am mostly familiar with resources that tackle how software interacts with various platforms and architectures. I can recommend some resources in that vein (maybe they'll be useful if you/the reader have a software background): The most frequently recommended book from a software perspective is "Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective" (http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/home.html http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/home.html). For a nice gentle intro, you can also read "The Elements of Computing Systems" (https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/elements-computing-systems https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/elements-computing-systems) that accompanies a course called "Nand2Tetris". George Hotz also compiled a list of topics to cover to learn the computing stack from bottom-to-top (https://github.com/geohot/fromthetransistor https://github.com/geohot/fromthetransistor). These resources are mostly software-oriented, so they wouldn't give you much insight into modern chip fabrication, but if you're coming from a software background, may prove to be useful for building on what you already know.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mhh__ 5y ago
Bits on chips Hennessey and Patterson's computer architecture.
victorbojica 5y ago
You could try checking this out. Seems like a good starting point. The videos are very detailed. https://youtube.com/c/Asianometry https://youtube.com/c/Asianometry
- hackernewds 5y ago
  Heads up it's heavily Asia centric. Bit biased, but also dangerous because it's not comprehensive. Good way to learn about TSM nonetheless
  - sidkshatriya 5y ago
    > Heads up it's heavily Asia centric. Semiconductor manufacturing by now is heavily Asia centric. So it is natural for a YouTube channel about Semi conductor manufacturing to be Asia centric. That's where most of the world production is taking place! I've seen the YouTube channel and it pays attention to ASML for example which is based in Europe. It doesn't ignore important players, even if they are non-Asian. > but also dangerous because it's not comprehensive Describing something as "dangerous" because it is not comprehensive is going too far. You can watch this channel and supplement your viewing with videos from other channels. Like any normal YouTube viewer does. Nothing is ever truly comprehensive.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  There's also the usual Sam Zeelof channel https://www.youtube.com/c/SamZeloof https://www.youtube.com/c/SamZeloof oh and Jeri Ellsworth https://www.youtube.com/c/jeriellsworth https://www.youtube.com/c/jeriellsworth
- asianometry 5y ago
  Thanks for the rec. I also recommend Ian Cutress of TechTechPotato. https://www.youtube.com/c/TechTechPotato https://www.youtube.com/c/TechTechPotato
andi999 5y ago
From a business or from a physics perspective?
- allie1 5y ago
  Business/investment perspective
  - ghaff 5y ago
    From a business/investment report, most of what's in books is going to be pretty much historical at this point. Doesn't mean not worth reading though--e.g. Andy Grove's Only the Paranoid Survive. Industry analysts (both financial and IT) can be good sources for current information--although a lot of that kind of thing is expensively gated. There's also just talking to people. After all, that's a good part of what analysts do--though they may have a greater level of access than you do.
readingnews 5y ago
Define "learn semiconductors industry"... I mean, you might say "I want to learn medicine" and people would take that many ways. I studied EECE (electrical and computer engineering) in my BS, then Physics, and my Ph.D. is in Computer Engineering, minor in CS, but very specifically on VLSI and chip-making in the graduate school. I am saying this just to note: When you say "semiconductors industry" my immediate thought is you want to learn VLSI. So, do you want to learn VLSI? Half the VLSI population will direct you to Westes book: https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-education/program/Weste-CMOS-VLSI-Design-A-Circuits-and-Systems-Perspective-4th-Edition/PGM289886.html https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-education/program/Weste-CM... and the other half will direct you to Jan Rabaeys book: http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/ http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/ I read both. Rabaey is a great writer and I prefer his book quite a bit. Do you want to learn the Architecture of CPUs? The bible is Hennessey and Patterson: https://www.elsevier.com/books/computer-architecture/hennessy/978-0-12-811905-1 https://www.elsevier.com/books/computer-architecture/henness... However, there are several versions (not editions) so be aware of RISC vs ARM and also one is HUGE and one is a subset of the main one (for example, this book: Computer Organization and Design, David A. Patterson, and John L. Hennessy is a subset of the "A quantitative approach" I linked to at elsiver). I would first figure out or define if you want to learn semiconductors by themselves (the first two books I referenced, which will also teach you CMOS design and high speed digital circuits) or end to end architecture of CPUs (Hennessy and Patterson), or something else (e.g. there is also the manufacturing of chips, which Weste and Rabaey cover to some degree, but there are even more serious books on, for example Rabeays book on 3D ICs).
- allie1 5y ago
  Much appreciated! I dont quite know yet which routes to take. I need to understand the ecosystem, manufacturing, different semicodnuctor uses, architecture, manufacturing. Planning on spending the next two years getting up to speed so I can navigate the field from an investment standpoint
  - readingnews 5y ago
    Ahh, well, Rabay and Weste have a short chapter on manufacturing. The Hennessy and Patterson book does as well, albeit shorter. Architecture of semiconductors is going to be Rabay and Weste. Architecture of CPU is going to be H&P book. The ecosystem of it all (packaging, die layout, etc, is going to be in more specific books). Do not forget that although H&P will cover architecture, today architecture is done from the behavioral level down, e.g. they design what they want the chip to do, synthesize that in some Hardware Description Language (HDL, like Verilog or VHDL) and then they have a huge team of engineers who will optimize parts of that, as the synthesis is not totally optimized. Then on top of that, another team of engineers will optimize each component or module for speed by sizing the transistors appropriately. I am going to admit, I know from a hand-waving level end to end manufacturing, so I could not point you at a very good resource for understanding the actual "boots on the ground" process of today's lithography. Again, in Rabaeys 3D IC book there are great sections on the processing of 3D ICs which would give you some insight into the process today. Hope that helps some.
qbasic_forever 5y ago
Learn the Mandarin language. Taiwan is the epicenter of the cutting edge work in the industry. China is the powerhouse of production for it too. Both speak Mandarin natively and it would behoove you to understand it and their cultures.
- sidkshatriya 5y ago
  If you had a decent Ph. D. from anywhere in the world in Semiconductor technology, I'm sure the fabs in Taiwan would still be interested in hiring you. Even if you didn't know a single word of Mandarin. (Though in that case they might expect you to know English at Minimum)
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  In Taiwan you have to learn english to get a phd. Additionally, you should know Taiwan sources many parts of the production process from technologies in other countries. For example ASML is the company that actually makes the EUV machines that etch the patterns onto the silicon, and that company is Dutch. In addition to that the lenses used in the EUV machines are custom made from Carl Zeiss, a German company. Both of the aforementioned technologies are highly advanced and there is no way for TMSC to replicate each one. Taiwan does not hold a monopoly on semiconductor technology. You should note that Korea (Samsung) also holds second place in this area and is not far behind. China is actually pretty behind in the semiconductor race. Worse then intel as of right now.
  - qbasic_forever 5y ago
    It doesn't change the fact that none of this information on how TSMC, etc. actually produce at scale is written anywhere in english (or even in a book). These are intensely guarded trade secrets and you're going to need to start working with and around these companies to even begin to comprehend how what they do is possible.
    - deltaonefour 5y ago
      TSMC is also opening a fab in the united states. Arizona. Look it up. Don't dismiss the photo-lithography machines from ASML. The technology involved in the creation of those machines rivals TSMC itself. ASML gets less press but it is indeed as critical if not more critical in the supply chain than TSMC. TSMC can be overtaken by samsung or intel... the possibility exists. No one, however is even close to being able to replicate the EUV machines created by ASML.
Koshkin 5y ago
Gotta mention the timeless classic by Mead and Conway here.
oneofthose 5y ago
Microchip Fabricarion has its flaws but gives a good high level overview includinh bringing, test and packaging: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1203098.Microchip_Fabrication https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1203098.Microchip_Fabric...
jajajaja123 5y ago
If you have Telegram there are a lot of books free to download on this channel: https://t.me/embedded_library https://t.me/embedded_library
tester756 5y ago
is semico modern version of "rocket science"? "oh c'mon it ain't semiconductor engineering!"
payne92 5y ago
Great book on the early industry: https://www.amazon.com/Makers-Microchip-Documentary-Fairchild-Semiconductor/dp/0262014246 https://www.amazon.com/Makers-Microchip-Documentary-Fairchil...
tims457 5y ago
I know you asked for books, but this Knowledge Project podcast is too good to leave out if you haven't heard it. https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/the-ultimate-bargaining-chip/ https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/the-ultimate-barga...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
teleforce 5y ago
This is a rare and nice overview book on the VLSI design by Liming Xiu: VLSI Circuit Design Methodology Demystified: A Conceptual Taxonomy: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/VLSI+Circuit+Design+Methodology+Demystified%3A+A+Conceptual+Taxonomy+-p-9780470127421 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/VLSI+Circuit+Design+Methodology+...
phendrenad2 5y ago
Publicly-traded Semiconductor companies like Intel and AMD publish reports to investors, so that might be a small but effective resource.
rramadass 5y ago
1) Microprocessor Design: A Practical Guide from Design Planning to Manufacturing by Grant McFarland. 2) Chip Design for Non-Designers: An Introduction by Juan-Antonio Carballo. 3) Demystifying Chipmaking by Ricahrd F. Yanda et al.. 4) Fabless: The Transformation of the Semiconductor Industry by Daniel Nenni et al.

106 points by allie1 5y ago

I want to understand the ins and outs of the semiconductor industry. What resources would you recommend for beginner, intermediary and technical person?

momentum115 5y ago

This blog has been very helpful to follow the recent trends and players from an investors standpoint - https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com

tdullien 5y ago

"The history of semiconductor engineering" was a great read.

adhesive_wombat 5y ago

ITRS roadmaps were a very interesting read up to 2017 when they were stopped: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Technology_Roadmap_for_Semiconductors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Technology_Roa... I haven't looked at the IRDS roadmaps, but they're free with some registration to the IEEE.

sgeisenh 5y ago

Hard to answer this question well without a little bit of additional context. I'm very focused on the software side of things, so I am mostly familiar with resources that tackle how software interacts with various platforms and architectures. I can recommend some resources in that vein (maybe they'll be useful if you/the reader have a software background): The most frequently recommended book from a software perspective is "Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective" (http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/home.html http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/home.html). For a nice gentle intro, you can also read "The Elements of Computing Systems" (https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/elements-computing-systems https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/elements-computing-systems) that accompanies a course called "Nand2Tetris". George Hotz also compiled a list of topics to cover to learn the computing stack from bottom-to-top (https://github.com/geohot/fromthetransistor https://github.com/geohot/fromthetransistor). These resources are mostly software-oriented, so they wouldn't give you much insight into modern chip fabrication, but if you're coming from a software background, may prove to be useful for building on what you already know.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mhh__ 5y ago

Bits on chips Hennessey and Patterson's computer architecture.

victorbojica 5y ago

You could try checking this out. Seems like a good starting point. The videos are very detailed. https://youtube.com/c/Asianometry https://youtube.com/c/Asianometry

hackernewds 5y ago
Heads up it's heavily Asia centric. Bit biased, but also dangerous because it's not comprehensive. Good way to learn about TSM nonetheless
- sidkshatriya 5y ago
  > Heads up it's heavily Asia centric. Semiconductor manufacturing by now is heavily Asia centric. So it is natural for a YouTube channel about Semi conductor manufacturing to be Asia centric. That's where most of the world production is taking place! I've seen the YouTube channel and it pays attention to ASML for example which is based in Europe. It doesn't ignore important players, even if they are non-Asian. > but also dangerous because it's not comprehensive Describing something as "dangerous" because it is not comprehensive is going too far. You can watch this channel and supplement your viewing with videos from other channels. Like any normal YouTube viewer does. Nothing is ever truly comprehensive.
agumonkey 5y ago
There's also the usual Sam Zeelof channel https://www.youtube.com/c/SamZeloof https://www.youtube.com/c/SamZeloof oh and Jeri Ellsworth https://www.youtube.com/c/jeriellsworth https://www.youtube.com/c/jeriellsworth
asianometry 5y ago
Thanks for the rec. I also recommend Ian Cutress of TechTechPotato. https://www.youtube.com/c/TechTechPotato https://www.youtube.com/c/TechTechPotato

andi999 5y ago

From a business or from a physics perspective?

allie1 5y ago
Business/investment perspective
- ghaff 5y ago
  From a business/investment report, most of what's in books is going to be pretty much historical at this point. Doesn't mean not worth reading though--e.g. Andy Grove's Only the Paranoid Survive. Industry analysts (both financial and IT) can be good sources for current information--although a lot of that kind of thing is expensively gated. There's also just talking to people. After all, that's a good part of what analysts do--though they may have a greater level of access than you do.

readingnews 5y ago

Define "learn semiconductors industry"... I mean, you might say "I want to learn medicine" and people would take that many ways. I studied EECE (electrical and computer engineering) in my BS, then Physics, and my Ph.D. is in Computer Engineering, minor in CS, but very specifically on VLSI and chip-making in the graduate school. I am saying this just to note: When you say "semiconductors industry" my immediate thought is you want to learn VLSI. So, do you want to learn VLSI? Half the VLSI population will direct you to Westes book: https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-education/program/Weste-CMOS-VLSI-Design-A-Circuits-and-Systems-Perspective-4th-Edition/PGM289886.html https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-education/program/Weste-CM... and the other half will direct you to Jan Rabaeys book: http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/ http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/ I read both. Rabaey is a great writer and I prefer his book quite a bit. Do you want to learn the Architecture of CPUs? The bible is Hennessey and Patterson: https://www.elsevier.com/books/computer-architecture/hennessy/978-0-12-811905-1 https://www.elsevier.com/books/computer-architecture/henness... However, there are several versions (not editions) so be aware of RISC vs ARM and also one is HUGE and one is a subset of the main one (for example, this book: Computer Organization and Design, David A. Patterson, and John L. Hennessy is a subset of the "A quantitative approach" I linked to at elsiver). I would first figure out or define if you want to learn semiconductors by themselves (the first two books I referenced, which will also teach you CMOS design and high speed digital circuits) or end to end architecture of CPUs (Hennessy and Patterson), or something else (e.g. there is also the manufacturing of chips, which Weste and Rabaey cover to some degree, but there are even more serious books on, for example Rabeays book on 3D ICs).

allie1 5y ago
Much appreciated! I dont quite know yet which routes to take. I need to understand the ecosystem, manufacturing, different semicodnuctor uses, architecture, manufacturing. Planning on spending the next two years getting up to speed so I can navigate the field from an investment standpoint
- readingnews 5y ago
  Ahh, well, Rabay and Weste have a short chapter on manufacturing. The Hennessy and Patterson book does as well, albeit shorter. Architecture of semiconductors is going to be Rabay and Weste. Architecture of CPU is going to be H&P book. The ecosystem of it all (packaging, die layout, etc, is going to be in more specific books). Do not forget that although H&P will cover architecture, today architecture is done from the behavioral level down, e.g. they design what they want the chip to do, synthesize that in some Hardware Description Language (HDL, like Verilog or VHDL) and then they have a huge team of engineers who will optimize parts of that, as the synthesis is not totally optimized. Then on top of that, another team of engineers will optimize each component or module for speed by sizing the transistors appropriately. I am going to admit, I know from a hand-waving level end to end manufacturing, so I could not point you at a very good resource for understanding the actual "boots on the ground" process of today's lithography. Again, in Rabaeys 3D IC book there are great sections on the processing of 3D ICs which would give you some insight into the process today. Hope that helps some.

qbasic_forever 5y ago

Learn the Mandarin language. Taiwan is the epicenter of the cutting edge work in the industry. China is the powerhouse of production for it too. Both speak Mandarin natively and it would behoove you to understand it and their cultures.

sidkshatriya 5y ago
If you had a decent Ph. D. from anywhere in the world in Semiconductor technology, I'm sure the fabs in Taiwan would still be interested in hiring you. Even if you didn't know a single word of Mandarin. (Though in that case they might expect you to know English at Minimum)
deltaonefour 5y ago
In Taiwan you have to learn english to get a phd. Additionally, you should know Taiwan sources many parts of the production process from technologies in other countries. For example ASML is the company that actually makes the EUV machines that etch the patterns onto the silicon, and that company is Dutch. In addition to that the lenses used in the EUV machines are custom made from Carl Zeiss, a German company. Both of the aforementioned technologies are highly advanced and there is no way for TMSC to replicate each one. Taiwan does not hold a monopoly on semiconductor technology. You should note that Korea (Samsung) also holds second place in this area and is not far behind. China is actually pretty behind in the semiconductor race. Worse then intel as of right now.
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  It doesn't change the fact that none of this information on how TSMC, etc. actually produce at scale is written anywhere in english (or even in a book). These are intensely guarded trade secrets and you're going to need to start working with and around these companies to even begin to comprehend how what they do is possible.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    TSMC is also opening a fab in the united states. Arizona. Look it up. Don't dismiss the photo-lithography machines from ASML. The technology involved in the creation of those machines rivals TSMC itself. ASML gets less press but it is indeed as critical if not more critical in the supply chain than TSMC. TSMC can be overtaken by samsung or intel... the possibility exists. No one, however is even close to being able to replicate the EUV machines created by ASML.

Koshkin 5y ago

Gotta mention the timeless classic by Mead and Conway here.

oneofthose 5y ago

Microchip Fabricarion has its flaws but gives a good high level overview includinh bringing, test and packaging: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1203098.Microchip_Fabrication https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1203098.Microchip_Fabric...

jajajaja123 5y ago

If you have Telegram there are a lot of books free to download on this channel: https://t.me/embedded_library https://t.me/embedded_library

tester756 5y ago

is semico modern version of "rocket science"? "oh c'mon it ain't semiconductor engineering!"

payne92 5y ago

Great book on the early industry: https://www.amazon.com/Makers-Microchip-Documentary-Fairchild-Semiconductor/dp/0262014246 https://www.amazon.com/Makers-Microchip-Documentary-Fairchil...

tims457 5y ago

I know you asked for books, but this Knowledge Project podcast is too good to leave out if you haven't heard it. https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/the-ultimate-bargaining-chip/ https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/the-ultimate-barga...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

teleforce 5y ago

This is a rare and nice overview book on the VLSI design by Liming Xiu: VLSI Circuit Design Methodology Demystified: A Conceptual Taxonomy: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/VLSI+Circuit+Design+Methodology+Demystified%3A+A+Conceptual+Taxonomy+-p-9780470127421 https://www.wiley.com/en-us/VLSI+Circuit+Design+Methodology+...

phendrenad2 5y ago

Publicly-traded Semiconductor companies like Intel and AMD publish reports to investors, so that might be a small but effective resource.

rramadass 5y ago

1) Microprocessor Design: A Practical Guide from Design Planning to Manufacturing by Grant McFarland. 2) Chip Design for Non-Designers: An Introduction by Juan-Antonio Carballo. 3) Demystifying Chipmaking by Ricahrd F. Yanda et al.. 4) Fabless: The Transformation of the Semiconductor Industry by Daniel Nenni et al.