5 ms·

The rise of "mindset" and "resilience" is just another chapter in the absurd poverty discourse. Poverty is extremely simple to fix - just give people money. Bu

The rise of "mindset" and "resilience" is just another chapter in the absurd poverty discourse. Poverty is extremely simple to fix - just give people money. But rich people don't want that, so we can't do that, and it's largely taboo to even talk about it. So instead of the real solution, we have to talk about all the fake solutions - education, marriage, mindset, resilience, learning to code. Andrew Yang even said that web3 was the most powerful anti-poverty tool we had. Anybody who talks about any cure for poverty other than directly giving people in poverty more money is lying to you.

zozbot234 5y ago
Why not both? Give people fish and teach them to fish. Why does it have to be one or the other?
- djrobstep 5y ago
  Because the first one is extremely simple and all that is needed. That doesn't mean that things like education aren't good - but they aren't required or effective for poverty reduction. The other fundamental issue is the poverty is most severe for households with non-earning or low earning dependents, such as children, elderly, sick, disabled, and caregivers - simply because the household income needs to be split more ways. No amount of teaching can fix that - only redistributive welfare can.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    It's not extremely simple. You have to make money before you can give it away - that's the hard part! (Even if you argue that rich people should be giving away some of their existing high incomes via taxes, that means that these taxes can't be used to fund other good things.) So you need both.
    - djrobstep 5y ago
      What's hard about it? There's plenty of money to go around already.
  - csee 5y ago
    You lost me when you said education isn't required and isn't effective for poverty reduction. If you have a society that isn't educated then you have no wealth to take in order to give.
    - djrobstep 5y ago
      Do you think that giving people money requires banning education? Education is good for many reasons, but it’s not a cure for poverty.
kyle_martin1 5y ago
nemo44x 5y ago
That’s just not true. We’ve done this and it has led to the destruction of the family and further impoverishment of many people. We shouldn’t continue doing things that have failed. The Moynihan Report explored this in the 1960’s and has predicted where we are today. And although it was related to black Americans at the time it is very easily generalized to everyone. Just giving people money forever will only cause destruction.
- njacobs5074 5y ago
  > Just giving people money forever will only cause destruction. Would you agree that this is equally true for someone who comes from a wealthy family and has a trust fund that essentially guarantees that they will be "given money", usually in the form of capital gains, forever?
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    I would say that giving your kids a bag of money so they don’t have to do anything wound generally be a bad idea. I think Bill Gates said he gives his kids enough money so that they don’t have to do anything for money but that they do have to do something or something like that. In the end, people need to be meaningful participants in their own lives.
    - nyhc99 5y ago
      Have you ever seen a UBI proposal that would give people so much money that they don't have to do anything? We would never be able to come up with that much money to give out. It's more like giving them even less money than Bill Gates gives his kids, so they still have to work, but they "don’t have to do anything for money but that they do have to do something" as you put it.
      - nemo44x 5y ago
        Right but it’s about the values put into you as you’re raised. There’s a big difference there.
Proven 5y ago
chii 5y ago
> Poverty is extremely simple to fix - just give people money. yep - just let them have cake, surely that will fix it!
- newsclues 5y ago
  If people live in poverty but have a job, poverty is solved by giving the poor workers a higher wage. We have billionaires and children who are homeless, that isn’t a good thing.
  - kerneloftruth 5y ago
    "We have billionaires and children who are homeless". Is there some evidence of homeless billionaires on the streets with their kids? Did you mean to say that there exist homeless kids and also there are billionaires?

zozbot234 5y ago

Why not both? Give people fish and teach them to fish. Why does it have to be one or the other?

djrobstep 5y ago
Because the first one is extremely simple and all that is needed. That doesn't mean that things like education aren't good - but they aren't required or effective for poverty reduction. The other fundamental issue is the poverty is most severe for households with non-earning or low earning dependents, such as children, elderly, sick, disabled, and caregivers - simply because the household income needs to be split more ways. No amount of teaching can fix that - only redistributive welfare can.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  It's not extremely simple. You have to make money before you can give it away - that's the hard part! (Even if you argue that rich people should be giving away some of their existing high incomes via taxes, that means that these taxes can't be used to fund other good things.) So you need both.
  - djrobstep 5y ago
    What's hard about it? There's plenty of money to go around already.
- csee 5y ago
  You lost me when you said education isn't required and isn't effective for poverty reduction. If you have a society that isn't educated then you have no wealth to take in order to give.
  - djrobstep 5y ago
    Do you think that giving people money requires banning education? Education is good for many reasons, but it’s not a cure for poverty.

kyle_martin1 5y ago

nemo44x 5y ago

That’s just not true. We’ve done this and it has led to the destruction of the family and further impoverishment of many people. We shouldn’t continue doing things that have failed. The Moynihan Report explored this in the 1960’s and has predicted where we are today. And although it was related to black Americans at the time it is very easily generalized to everyone. Just giving people money forever will only cause destruction.

njacobs5074 5y ago
> Just giving people money forever will only cause destruction. Would you agree that this is equally true for someone who comes from a wealthy family and has a trust fund that essentially guarantees that they will be "given money", usually in the form of capital gains, forever?
- nemo44x 5y ago
  I would say that giving your kids a bag of money so they don’t have to do anything wound generally be a bad idea. I think Bill Gates said he gives his kids enough money so that they don’t have to do anything for money but that they do have to do something or something like that. In the end, people need to be meaningful participants in their own lives.
  - nyhc99 5y ago
    Have you ever seen a UBI proposal that would give people so much money that they don't have to do anything? We would never be able to come up with that much money to give out. It's more like giving them even less money than Bill Gates gives his kids, so they still have to work, but they "don’t have to do anything for money but that they do have to do something" as you put it.
    - nemo44x 5y ago
      Right but it’s about the values put into you as you’re raised. There’s a big difference there.

Proven 5y ago

chii 5y ago

> Poverty is extremely simple to fix - just give people money. yep - just let them have cake, surely that will fix it!

newsclues 5y ago
If people live in poverty but have a job, poverty is solved by giving the poor workers a higher wage. We have billionaires and children who are homeless, that isn’t a good thing.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  "We have billionaires and children who are homeless". Is there some evidence of homeless billionaires on the streets with their kids? Did you mean to say that there exist homeless kids and also there are billionaires?