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The brain’s reading of the body’s state is key to mental health
- amelius 5y agoMy problem is the reverse. When my brain is working, my jaw tenses up, and my breathing becomes shallow. I tried everything, but it seems impossible to decouple mental performance from these physical issues. I wish that there was some kind of bio-feedback device that could warn me when I push myself too far.
- retrac 5y agoThere are some biofeedback devices re: jaw clenching/teeth grinding in particular. Both muscle innervation sensors (applied to the skin) and pressure sensors (held between the teeth) out there. Not sure if they're actually effective but one small study with people who grind their teeth while asleep found significant reductions from a mouthguard that vibrated when a pressure threshold was exceeded: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389117/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4389117/
- themodelplumber 5y agoI used a biofeedback device for measuring jaw tension among other things a long time ago...it was really helpful for training the body in how to naturally relax. Not sure it would solve the problem for someone entirely but it's worth a try. For pushing too far I use a timer system based around supporting the work characteristics, and it's been really helpful too. Hopefully you find something that helps.
- amelius 5y agoThanks, could you provide a link to the system that you used?
- themodelplumber 5y agoSure, it's Module #4 here: https://www.friendlyskies.net/maybe/the-balance-first-approachable-to-do-list https://www.friendlyskies.net/maybe/the-balance-first-approa... --Marc
- amelius 5y agoOk, thanks! Do you also have a link for the bio-feedback device that you used?
- themodelplumber 5y agoI wish I did, it was at a university biofeedback lab in about 2000. I'd guess anybody who works with biofeedback devices could recommend something better by now anyway.
- amelius 5y agoHeh, ok, yes I expected you to say something like this. I had biofeedback therapy as a child (also jaw/bruxism related), and those devices looked archaic, even for that time :)
- themodelplumber 5y agoSpeaking of which...What about a retro-computing project in QBasic? https://archive.org/details/ElectronicsNow199612/page/n36/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/ElectronicsNow199612/page/n36/mo...
- amelius 5y ago:) I'm tempted to build something like this, probably more in this field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromyography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromyography But ... I can't find the time.
- User23 5y agoTry consciously resting your tongue against the roof of your mouth and breathing through your nose.
- mansoon 5y agoThe body keeps the score is the best book on this that I am aware of.
- mansoon 5y agoI can justify this exhaustively. I will not do so in an argument on the internet. You may ask questions. I reserve the right to refuse. This is how to protect your body if you have a strong impulse to argue, and you find yourself testing it on the internet.
- themodelplumber 5y agoAssuming you are conscious of the impulse. :-)
- _ywdj 5y agoSome friends have a 7-year-old son who is being assessed/treated for autism-spectrum disorder; he's outgoing, sociable and highly intelligent, but has issues with emotional and behavioural dysregulation and can often get into kind of manic states. One of the techniques I've seen his parents use when he's getting into these states is to ask "where are you feeling this in your body?", then for him to focus on that region while using controlled breathing to calm down. Re this: There is also the possibility of using interoception training as a form of mental health treatment This kind of thing exists, though still in the fringes. I've been using versions of it for over 10 years to resolve the effects of many earlier-life experiences caused ongoing charged reactions and chronic mental and physiological issues (after years of mainstream medical treatment and therapy was ineffective). It's very much a process of identifying and letting go of the way these experiences (often described as traumas, but not always in that category) are held/felt in different parts of the body ("butterflies the stomach" when nervous is the most obvious example, but goes much much further/deeper than this). I'm now completely free of depression and mostly free of anxiety and fatigue/pain issues (CFS/ME) but still continuing to progress. If any researches/professionals working in this field happen to be reading this, I'd love to get in touch.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mansoon 5y agoDM me please.
- _ywdj 5y agoThanks for the reply. No DMs on HN but you can email me (address in profile).
- gloryjulio 5y agoThis is the best plain description of the practical meditation techniques which can help to improve mental health. Hope more people can benefit from reading this.
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- mansoon 5y ago
- ta988 5y agoThe really good ad tracking system of HN that is listening to your deeper thoughts. Can't fight it.
- mansoon 5y agoHacker news is an extraordinary joint cognitive system. The recent increase in noise clarifies the signal that propagates.
- mansoon 5y agoFor fuck's sake. Today is a good day to have understood the necessity of coincidence. =)
- dboreham 5y agoHN Birthday Paradox?
- amelius 5y agoReminds me of this video, where they ask: "where is your headache?", "what color is your headache?", etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKGtv84aSjo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKGtv84aSjo
- buscoquadnary 5y agoSo this isn't directly related but is in a similar veind. There's a book I read called persuasion bt a Dr. Robert Calidni which is about demonstrating various types of subconscious tricks to get someone to be compliant. However one of the parts of the book I found interesting was he also noted that many of these tricks of persuasion would be made to disappear if the you brought someone's attention to the trigger. E.g people are less complaint when the weather outside is bad; however if you start by asking someone how the weather is the effect disappears. I take the whole book with a grain of salt since the whole of social psychology is full of tons of issues right now but it is interesting, especially when one considers the beneficial effects of meditation that have been observed when that is mostly about sitting and becoming aware of your body and your feelings.
- kayodelycaon 5y agoAs someone who is bipolar, it’s very easy to see how the mind and body are connected. Getting my high blood pressure treated significantly helped my anxiety, because it got rid of the constant pressure in my chest that felt like anxiety. Separating anxiety and asthma symptoms is difficult. They feel very similar and trigger each other. Unfortunately, this is far from new information. It is decades old and this study currently offers no greater insight into what is already a well-known effect. This is already incorporated into a treatment of mental illness. Not as widely as it should be, but it is there. Nevertheless, this study gives me hope for the future, because someone is looking in what I believe the right direction. It’s the one more step in a long series of steps into figuring why this is the case.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago"hope for the future" is it's own separate mental health data point as well.
- neitsab 5y agoMany commenters here have already noted the strong connection between this study findings and common Buddhist-/mindfullness-based meditation instructions. To me it was the concept of interoception which produced the stronger callback to Buddhist themes, in this case to the notion of "sixth inner sense" commonly referred to in Pali Buddhist scriptures: > In Buddhism, "mind" denotes an internal sense organ which interacts with sense objects that include sense impressions, feelings, perceptions and volition.[0] I have always found this sixth sense organ a welcome –and even necessary– addition to the regular Western list of senses, as without it it is impossible to account for the bountiful nature of our inner experiences (and our perception of them, which evidently foregoes the five other physical senses). I am really glad to see we have a somewhat established (if not very well-known) comparative concept to use in the scientific framework of understanding. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80yatana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80yatana edit: typo and missing word
- qiskit 5y agoNot only buddhism. The romans gave us "mens sana in corpore sano" - sound body, sound mind. It seems like ancient peoples around the world associated healthy body with a healthy mind.
- lazide 5y agoAnd healthy minds tend towards keeping their bodies healthy too. The issue is that it doesn’t pay to ensure everyone is mentally healthy - far from it, it many cases it pays the bills exacerbating other peoples mental illnesses :(
- golemotron 5y agoIf this is true (and it seems to be), the metaverse and VR aren't likely to help mental health. Too much of our entertainment disembodies us.
- agumonkey 5y agoI second this wholeheartedly. I think there's no point in pursuing VR unless dedicated training / tooling. Approaching reality is pointless when you just have to walk outside.
- Hoasi 5y ago> If this is true (and it seems to be), the metaverse and VR aren't likely to help mental health. And we haven't yet fully assessed the damage of "social" Web 2.0...
- ciconia 5y agoThis is something I've been exploring on a personal level lately. I'm practicing intermittent fasting, and have found that listening to your body is key to maintaining personal discipline. Sometimes I'd get "the munchies" and I'm gradually developing the ability to respond to those urges by stopping, listening to my body and understanding what it really wants. Now that it's more used to it, my body would say "I don't need anything right now, I have enough energy, proteins etc in my reserves, thank you." It also occurred to me that I can develop this skill of listening to my body for other uses/occasions. For example, listening to music can also be done with our skin, which is sensitive to vibrations. Finally, it's the realization that our bodies have a very rich interface with our environment, and can provide us with so many signals, we just need to turn off our brains for a while in order to have that feeling of connectedness.
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoI've done some intermittent fasting as well, and one thing I've noticed is that it's easier to suppress what feels like actual hunger (stomach rumbling kinda feeling) than it is to suppress a "want to eat", which I'm assuming is your "munchies". If I think of, or see, something like Country Cheese biscuits or Pringles, something clicks and there becomes a kind of vacuum in my mind which can only be filled by that particular snack. Want, it seems, outranks the mild beginnings of need. This is one data point that helped me realise just how much humans are tuned to be slaves to their habits.
- akdor1154 5y agoI have the same experience but had never consciously realized this difference. My gf is the opposite, which I find interesting. Genuine hunger is a much more intense feeling for her.
- tharkun__ 5y agoAnecdata point: I've found that I had to train my brain/body in this again. It's so easy nowadays to just eat whatever you want, whenever you want. Have a sweet craving? Choose from a wide variety of snacks you have in the house and more are just around the corner in the store (but at least that would require leaving the house, so it's a bit of a barrier). I usually don't eat breakfast. But some days I do (sometimes on weekends). Especially when breakfast was or included carbs, I'll be hungry again for lunch. If I don't eat breakfast, then most days I don't really feel hungry for lunch. I have days where there's so much going on at work that I get to 5p.m. and suddenly notice that all I've had all day was coffee and water. When I've been eating no carbs or not many carbs for a while again, then it's easier to get over a carb craving. The body has learned that if it doesn't get carbs after a short while of signaling hunger, it will just stop and use the stores. It basically becomes easy enough to ignore and just being busy e.g. with work makes the hunger feeling not even appear at all in most cases. Totally non scientific guess: Our bodies have evolved to live on both a carb and a fat metabolism that was driven by the availability of food sources. It's perfectly happy to use either of these. Long winters with a limited amount of preserved carbs but lots of protein and fat available (partially from your own body or from hunting/preserved meats) use the fat metabolism. Summer and fall with lots fresh fruits and such the body is happy to use the carb metabolism and make you eat everything you can and fill up the fat stores. Unfortunately today we are able to feed that carb machine indefinitely, even in long winters.
- scns 5y agoCheck out the Breathly App.
- ekanes 5y agoI’ve been learning a lot about this. It’s pretty wild. Anyone interested in this should look up Polyvagal Theory. This related book with a strange name has been incredible to read. “Accessing the healing power of the vagus nerve.”
- datavirtue 5y agoI had inflammation from sciatica that was causing depression. Had no idea. My conciousness was completely changed. I went in to a see a sports medicine team for the sciatica (after I fought off a round of depression) and they prescribed an anti-inflammatory which has solved the issue for now (need to remedy the sciatica which is a long term effort). I didn't take the pills for a few days--I was feeling good and forgot to--and it crept back. The depression was so bad I'm literally scared/paranoid for it to ever return. I nearly attacked my family twice before getting the anti-inflammatories. Really fucked up. I have great sympathy for anyone dealing with this, and an understanding of the condition now. Depression is indescribable. I 100% get why people dealing with unrelenting depression kill themselves. I think back to my reaction on hearing of the deaths of Bordain, Cornell, Hartman, Williams and wondering why these famous people who had fulfilling careers, riches, free time, and beautiful families would kill themselves. It was not "unhappiness."
- rrishi 5y agoWhat did you take to control the inflammation?
- datavirtue 5y ago75mg Diclofenac sodium, twice a day
- netfortius 5y agoI wonder if there is any applicability of this to phobias - e.g. acrophobia or claustrophobia, to name some of the most common.
- andreskytt 5y agoWe don’t even necessarily know, to what extent we lack fidelity in our understanding of what goes on in pur bodies. I’ve found I have often mistaken thirst for hunger. Also, after having done endurance sport for a few years I’ve realized, that “my stomach is empty”, “my blood sugar is low” and “my internal reserves are depleted” all feel very different. Previously there was just a general feeling of tiredness.