7 ms·

When the rules prevented Kenneth Cole from launching, he broke the rules

191 points by DanLivesHere 15y ago

DanLivesHere 15y ago
... and he embraces it. I learned this from one of his trucks (see http://i.imgur.com/UClZP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UClZP.jpg) which told the story.
nickpinkston 15y ago
True hustlers make it happen - great story.
americandesi333 15y ago
He did break the rules, but these rules were irrational and he didn't hurt anyone in the process. Thats the ethical and moral dilemma that hustlers have to deal with every day. This is an inspiring story, but when I hear about founders cheating, backstabbing and hurting others in the process, that is not inspiring... and there is a fine line between the two.
- cbs 15y ago
  >but these rules were irrational Yeah, lets just let anyone who wants to set up shop in the middle of NYC roads. Won't impact traffic in the city at all.
  - americandesi333 15y ago
    I am not propagating that anyone should be allowed to have a truck on the NYC road, but why is it restricted only for movie studios and utility companies? Why not look at other industries that might value from such a permit. Even the author seems to agree with that evaluation.
    - kstenerud 15y ago
      Utility companies need to block traffic in order to service the public infrastructure. Film studios need to block traffic because traditionally it's been the only way to get street shots, especially when large film crews and big name actors are involved. Both are special cases that require special consideration. What is the special needs use case for a shoe manufacturer?
      - fragsworth 15y ago
        I think the movie studios get permits more for the fact that it ends up becoming free advertising and good publicity for the city.
    - cbs 15y ago
      >I am not propagating that anyone should be allowed to have a truck on the NYC road, >Why not look at other industries that might value from such a permit. Ah, yes, you're not propagating that anyone can block my streets. Only the ones that stand to make money from it. Look, if you want to be on the streets of NYC, rent some fucking street-front property, don't ask the city to turn the roads into bonus street-front property because you're too fucking cheap to cover rent. For utility work, its necessary. I'm not actually thrilled about closing streets for filming. I don't know how easy it should be to do, but I do know that it requires the access. Getting outdoor street shots in NYC isn't possible from inside a store, selling shoes is as possible whichever side of the sidewalk you're on.
jpadvo 15y ago
What is so impressive about the story is that he didn't break the rules, he found a clever way to work within them. He was confronted with a brick wall most people would have seen as non-negotiable, and he found a way around it. This required subtlety and cleverness. Outright breaking the rules is a shortcut that will often be morally wrong and will also carry practical ramifications that you probably don't want to deal with. I.e. you'll be a jerk and get nailed for it. It takes nothing but shallow bravado and sociopathy to "break the rules." It takes a lot of smarts to work with / around them, and will work out a lot better for you.
- ilamont 15y ago
  Agreed. The established order didn't work for him, so he was able to leverage an alternative (but legal) way of achieving his ultimate goal. There have been some other interesting marketing hacks/stunts over the years. I remember from about 20 years ago one involving the late Eazy E of N.W.A., a rap group which helped take gangsta rap mainstream in the late 80s/early 90s. Eazy E was invited to and showed up for a White House luncheon with then-President George H.W. Bush. How'd he get the invitation? Apparently by donating $2,500 to the Republican Party or the elder Bush's re-election campaign. The press was all over it. Eazy E later said the publicity was worth a million dollars.
- DannoHung 15y ago
  Actually, given the specific circumstances, I'm not sure that your analysis is correct, IANAL, but obtaining a permit and using it under false pretenses despite performing the activity required by the permit might be illegal.
  - jpadvo 15y ago
    You have a good point. If the movie making was just a charade, you are probably right -- it might have been some kind of fraud. If he actually was producing a film, even if it was just a short one or an advertisement, he probably was okay. But only through a loophole. :)
    - 15y ago
aneth 15y ago
The lesson to be learned here is to make things happen - to find a way from A to B - to not take no for an answer. It is not that breaking the rules is a good thing, only that sometimes it is acceptable.
cbs 15y ago
Yeah, great for him. This law is in place prevent the tragedy of the commons from killing NYC traffic because "well, its ok for ME to block traffic selling my shit".
rada 15y ago
This is nothing more than a bricks-and-mortar version of spam. Misleading subject? Check. Message scrambled so it can pass through the spam filter? Check. Exacerbating traffic congestion at pipe owner's expense? Check. Millions of people's time wasted? Check. Ok, spam is not genocide, and ok, it moves product. But to make it into an inspiring Young-Entrepreneur-Breaking-The-Rules story? Give me a break.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  What is it spam for? The newsletter link at the bottom?
  - DanLivesHere 15y ago
    No, he's saying that Kenneth Cole was a spammer. Just a brick-and-mortar one.
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      That seems like a heavily stretched metaphor.
joezydeco 15y ago
Millions of people work around stifling bureaucracies daily. Anyone working for a large corporation probably has a dozen or more arrows in their quiver when it comes to working around stupid rules, inefficient procedures, or stupid/inefficient coworkers.
jonathanmoore 15y ago
Fun fact... Their legal name to date is still Kenneth Cole Productions, Inc. as a reminder to resourcefulness and innovative problem solving. Source: http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&h=1150&w=898 http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&...
- DanLivesHere 15y ago
  This is also noted in the submitted link
  - jonathanmoore 15y ago
    My mistake. I must have missed that. The version of the story that is told on Kenneth Cole's website is still worth checking out.
    - kgermino 15y ago
      Except its flash only...
parfe 15y ago
If he never closed shop he was selling over 11 pairs of shoes a minute for 2.5 days straight. I assume he was actually doing bulk sales to distributors. The article doesn't make it clear. Was Market Week a retail event or a business to business event?
- dabent 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is the kind of event where purchasers make deals with manufacturers. You're right, it would be logistically impossible for that many shoes to be sold one at a time... http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-weeks/Calendar.aspx http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-weeks/Calendar.as...
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
mathattack 15y ago
He would have a great answer for The YC application question of "how did you hack the system?"
losethos 15y ago
The immortal words of God, "Pride, money, choose( one)." God says... C:\TEXT\YANKEE.TXT deal outraged, next morning when she found she was going to have neither Hugo's life nor his property. But I told her she must bear this cross; that while by law and custom she certainly was entitled to both the man's life and his property, there were extenuating circumstances, and so in Arthur the king's name I had pardoned him. The deer was ravaging the man's fields, and he had killed it in sudden passion, and not for gain; and he had carried it into the royal forest in the hope that that might
yason 15y ago
It's easy to break the rules if you just see them as rules, like kids do: they interpret rules literally. If, instead, you have learned to see some sort of an authority or greater justification issued behind the rules, rules become bearly impossible to bend because you'd be not only mucking with the rules but challenging something much greater. For an example, if you bump into a locked door of an abandoned old house, most people shy away because they assume the whole premises are off limits. While that is a safe assumption, a hacker mind would just consider the locked door as one particular blocked entry to the house and hop in through the basement window that was left slightly open. It might not be too relevant for him whether the premises themselves are, or are not, off limits: the hacker mind would realize that him looking around the house doesn't cause any tangential damage to anything, but at least he would satisfy his endless curiosity about what's inside. Similarly this shoe guy realized it does no harm to anyone and nobody would actually care if he posed as a film crew even if they weren't filming anything. Well, it seems nobody did care!
- wisty 15y ago
  I find the whole "rules are made to be broken" thing a little creepy. But you seem to have a more interesting take - unjust rules are meant to be sidestepped.

191 points by DanLivesHere 15y ago

... and he embraces it. I learned this from one of his trucks (see http://i.imgur.com/UClZP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UClZP.jpg) which told the story.

nickpinkston 15y ago

True hustlers make it happen - great story.

americandesi333 15y ago

He did break the rules, but these rules were irrational and he didn't hurt anyone in the process. Thats the ethical and moral dilemma that hustlers have to deal with every day. This is an inspiring story, but when I hear about founders cheating, backstabbing and hurting others in the process, that is not inspiring... and there is a fine line between the two.

cbs 15y ago
>but these rules were irrational Yeah, lets just let anyone who wants to set up shop in the middle of NYC roads. Won't impact traffic in the city at all.
- americandesi333 15y ago
  I am not propagating that anyone should be allowed to have a truck on the NYC road, but why is it restricted only for movie studios and utility companies? Why not look at other industries that might value from such a permit. Even the author seems to agree with that evaluation.
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    Utility companies need to block traffic in order to service the public infrastructure. Film studios need to block traffic because traditionally it's been the only way to get street shots, especially when large film crews and big name actors are involved. Both are special cases that require special consideration. What is the special needs use case for a shoe manufacturer?
    - fragsworth 15y ago
      I think the movie studios get permits more for the fact that it ends up becoming free advertising and good publicity for the city.
  - cbs 15y ago
    >I am not propagating that anyone should be allowed to have a truck on the NYC road, >Why not look at other industries that might value from such a permit. Ah, yes, you're not propagating that anyone can block my streets. Only the ones that stand to make money from it. Look, if you want to be on the streets of NYC, rent some fucking street-front property, don't ask the city to turn the roads into bonus street-front property because you're too fucking cheap to cover rent. For utility work, its necessary. I'm not actually thrilled about closing streets for filming. I don't know how easy it should be to do, but I do know that it requires the access. Getting outdoor street shots in NYC isn't possible from inside a store, selling shoes is as possible whichever side of the sidewalk you're on.

jpadvo 15y ago

What is so impressive about the story is that he didn't break the rules, he found a clever way to work within them. He was confronted with a brick wall most people would have seen as non-negotiable, and he found a way around it. This required subtlety and cleverness. Outright breaking the rules is a shortcut that will often be morally wrong and will also carry practical ramifications that you probably don't want to deal with. I.e. you'll be a jerk and get nailed for it. It takes nothing but shallow bravado and sociopathy to "break the rules." It takes a lot of smarts to work with / around them, and will work out a lot better for you.

ilamont 15y ago
Agreed. The established order didn't work for him, so he was able to leverage an alternative (but legal) way of achieving his ultimate goal. There have been some other interesting marketing hacks/stunts over the years. I remember from about 20 years ago one involving the late Eazy E of N.W.A., a rap group which helped take gangsta rap mainstream in the late 80s/early 90s. Eazy E was invited to and showed up for a White House luncheon with then-President George H.W. Bush. How'd he get the invitation? Apparently by donating $2,500 to the Republican Party or the elder Bush's re-election campaign. The press was all over it. Eazy E later said the publicity was worth a million dollars.
DannoHung 15y ago
Actually, given the specific circumstances, I'm not sure that your analysis is correct, IANAL, but obtaining a permit and using it under false pretenses despite performing the activity required by the permit might be illegal.
- jpadvo 15y ago
  You have a good point. If the movie making was just a charade, you are probably right -- it might have been some kind of fraud. If he actually was producing a film, even if it was just a short one or an advertisement, he probably was okay. But only through a loophole. :)
  - 15y ago

aneth 15y ago

The lesson to be learned here is to make things happen - to find a way from A to B - to not take no for an answer. It is not that breaking the rules is a good thing, only that sometimes it is acceptable.

cbs 15y ago

Yeah, great for him. This law is in place prevent the tragedy of the commons from killing NYC traffic because "well, its ok for ME to block traffic selling my shit".

rada 15y ago

This is nothing more than a bricks-and-mortar version of spam. Misleading subject? Check. Message scrambled so it can pass through the spam filter? Check. Exacerbating traffic congestion at pipe owner's expense? Check. Millions of people's time wasted? Check. Ok, spam is not genocide, and ok, it moves product. But to make it into an inspiring Young-Entrepreneur-Breaking-The-Rules story? Give me a break.

georgieporgie 15y ago
What is it spam for? The newsletter link at the bottom?
- DanLivesHere 15y ago
  No, he's saying that Kenneth Cole was a spammer. Just a brick-and-mortar one.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    That seems like a heavily stretched metaphor.

joezydeco 15y ago

Millions of people work around stifling bureaucracies daily. Anyone working for a large corporation probably has a dozen or more arrows in their quiver when it comes to working around stupid rules, inefficient procedures, or stupid/inefficient coworkers.

jonathanmoore 15y ago

Fun fact... Their legal name to date is still Kenneth Cole Productions, Inc. as a reminder to resourcefulness and innovative problem solving. Source: http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&h=1150&w=898 http://www.kennethcole.com/content/index.jsp?page=our_story&...

DanLivesHere 15y ago
This is also noted in the submitted link
- jonathanmoore 15y ago
  My mistake. I must have missed that. The version of the story that is told on Kenneth Cole's website is still worth checking out.
  - kgermino 15y ago
    Except its flash only...

parfe 15y ago

If he never closed shop he was selling over 11 pairs of shoes a minute for 2.5 days straight. I assume he was actually doing bulk sales to distributors. The article doesn't make it clear. Was Market Week a retail event or a business to business event?

dabent 15y ago
I'm pretty sure this is the kind of event where purchasers make deals with manufacturers. You're right, it would be logistically impossible for that many shoes to be sold one at a time... http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-weeks/Calendar.aspx http://nycfashioninfo.com/wholesale/market-weeks/Calendar.as...

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mathattack 15y ago

He would have a great answer for The YC application question of "how did you hack the system?"

losethos 15y ago

The immortal words of God, "Pride, money, choose( one)." God says... C:\TEXT\YANKEE.TXT deal outraged, next morning when she found she was going to have neither Hugo's life nor his property. But I told her she must bear this cross; that while by law and custom she certainly was entitled to both the man's life and his property, there were extenuating circumstances, and so in Arthur the king's name I had pardoned him. The deer was ravaging the man's fields, and he had killed it in sudden passion, and not for gain; and he had carried it into the royal forest in the hope that that might

yason 15y ago

It's easy to break the rules if you just see them as rules, like kids do: they interpret rules literally. If, instead, you have learned to see some sort of an authority or greater justification issued behind the rules, rules become bearly impossible to bend because you'd be not only mucking with the rules but challenging something much greater. For an example, if you bump into a locked door of an abandoned old house, most people shy away because they assume the whole premises are off limits. While that is a safe assumption, a hacker mind would just consider the locked door as one particular blocked entry to the house and hop in through the basement window that was left slightly open. It might not be too relevant for him whether the premises themselves are, or are not, off limits: the hacker mind would realize that him looking around the house doesn't cause any tangential damage to anything, but at least he would satisfy his endless curiosity about what's inside. Similarly this shoe guy realized it does no harm to anyone and nobody would actually care if he posed as a film crew even if they weren't filming anything. Well, it seems nobody did care!

wisty 15y ago
I find the whole "rules are made to be broken" thing a little creepy. But you seem to have a more interesting take - unjust rules are meant to be sidestepped.