6 ms·

So I read the article and I understand the reason why they wanted to use React Native for this specific part of the application. At the same time, I can't help

by ch_123 5y ago

So I read the article and I understand the reason why they wanted to use React Native for this specific part of the application. At the same time, I can't help but wonder about their priorities when they are rewriting parts of the new app while there are still configuration options in Windows which require you to go to the old Control Panel.

i386 5y ago
Can’t upvote this enough. Windows isn’t good all the way through.
ComodoHacker 5y ago
Well, they have telemetry, they see where users go most often. They probably see what users tried to use but haven't completed. Maybe they even can correlate that with support requests.
01acheru 5y ago
It's years and years since I used Windows for the last time, but I remember that at the time the control panel had: - parts from win8 - parts from win7 - parts from something that resembled winXP - some obscure settings that felt unchanged since win2k That was it for me, never logged into Windows since, don't know if it got better or worse.
- sofixa 5y ago
  It's still like that in Windows 10, there are menus that look like they date from Windows 95/98 ( device manager comes to mind), and there's the new Settings thing ( the one where you can only have a single instance of it).
  - mrjin 5y ago
    Windows 10 control panel/settings app is FUBAR. In some versions, tasks as simple as change ip address etc. became mission impossible. There are two sets of UI, neither is working...
  - falcolas 5y ago
    What's telling to me is how often I have to go back to the Win98 styled windows... and how much I prefer them to the newer Settings window.
- jbverschoor 5y ago
  I think perhaps DOS is still there
  - chrismorgan 5y ago
    A few years ago Windows 10 still had a Windows 3.11 file picker deep in the control panel databases stuff (ODBC, &c.), I think it was. It’s probably still there.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      I think adding printer drivers still has that same dialog.
      - einr 5y ago
        Adding printer drivers manually with the "Have Disk..." option still brings up a dialog box with an icon of a floppy disk that defaults to a path of A:\.
oefrha 5y ago
Even the context menu in File Explorer has two entirely different styles in Windows 11 — the old style along with all the third party items you need hidden behind a “Show more options”. UI consistency simply isn’t something they care about, the OS accumulates new inconsistencies with every release.
- udbhavs 5y ago
  I wonder if Windows or its UI will ever get a ground up rework considering how scared newer developers must be to touch the underlying legacy code base. That would probably require breaking backwards compatibility at some level and that doesn't look a principle MS is keen on abandoning. Windows 10X and RT both got abandoned. But on the other hand they can't keep piling stuff on top without fixing the core forever right? The context menu hack is already an example of the cracks beginning to show in this approach.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  > UI consistency simply isn’t something they care about While this is somewhat true (especially from Win8 onwards), one of the reasons you have "old-style" menu as a submenu is completely different: it is to make less calls to ContextMenuHandlers, used exactly for "all the third party items". It was a great addition in Win95. By the time of WinXP it was a source of many problems, but of course it was shitty Windows being shitty and not a 3rd party app problem.
  - oefrha 5y ago
    It would be less jarring and defensible if the main menu and old-style submenu didn't have different font sizes, line heights (as a multiple of font size), icon sizes, margins, hover transitions, highlight colors, ctrl behaviors, etc.
- concinds 5y ago
  I'm glad that Microsoft agrees with Linus on: "Don't break userspace" The Apple way might have been to take away those old Config Panels with no replacement for years, or ever. Or breaking third-party File Explorer extensions and forcing devs to rewrite them.
mdb31 5y ago
The days when every new Windows feature came with a snazzy UI to configure it are long gone. Realistically, Server 2012R2 was the last release that had full parity between features and matching configuration 'screens'. Since that time (so: Server 2016, 2019 and 2022, and to a lesser extent the consumer SKUs), configuring new features has required PowerShell and/or WMI. This trend is unlikely to reverse anytime soon. Mostly because features are increasingly complicated. With Windows 10 and, especially, 11, the GUI parts of the configuration have been redone on a "whatever looks good and is usable for 80% of non-advanced users" basis. That this now requires "web" technologies is disappointing, but unsurprising. There just isn't a good "native GUI" story right now: not in the open source world, but especially not with Windows or macOS.
- majkinetor 5y ago
  > configuring new features has required PowerShell Which it should. Window should be PowerShell-first, and GUI eventually. Even more, GUI should use PowerShell so that you can configure stuff via GUI and export the script for automation. This then leaves to anybody to create GUI if they want, and GUI is just a PowerShell frontend.
WorldMaker 5y ago
In its own way, "these Settings you can only get to by opening a web browser and going to account.microsoft.com" is just as bad as "these Settings you can only get to by finding them in an older Control Panel", isn't it? Even assuming it is "zero sum" that this Settings page took resources away from other Settings migrations, it's still a net win for "Settings all in one place" isn't it? (In which the article also points out is unlikely to be a "zero sum" case here, because the whole point of using React Native is so that the team that is in charge of "account.microsoft.com" directly can own the Settings page and can share code in it with what they also run on account.microsoft.com. It seems highly unlikely that that web-based team has any other older Control Panel they "own", and more likely that if they own their own Settings page that a team that does own older Control Panels and new Settings pages doesn't have to "moonlight" or "hand hold" the web team's Settings work.)

by ch_123 5y ago

i386 5y ago

Can’t upvote this enough. Windows isn’t good all the way through.

ComodoHacker 5y ago

Well, they have telemetry, they see where users go most often. They probably see what users tried to use but haven't completed. Maybe they even can correlate that with support requests.

01acheru 5y ago

It's years and years since I used Windows for the last time, but I remember that at the time the control panel had: - parts from win8 - parts from win7 - parts from something that resembled winXP - some obscure settings that felt unchanged since win2k That was it for me, never logged into Windows since, don't know if it got better or worse.

sofixa 5y ago
It's still like that in Windows 10, there are menus that look like they date from Windows 95/98 ( device manager comes to mind), and there's the new Settings thing ( the one where you can only have a single instance of it).
- mrjin 5y ago
  Windows 10 control panel/settings app is FUBAR. In some versions, tasks as simple as change ip address etc. became mission impossible. There are two sets of UI, neither is working...
- falcolas 5y ago
  What's telling to me is how often I have to go back to the Win98 styled windows... and how much I prefer them to the newer Settings window.
jbverschoor 5y ago
I think perhaps DOS is still there
- chrismorgan 5y ago
  A few years ago Windows 10 still had a Windows 3.11 file picker deep in the control panel databases stuff (ODBC, &c.), I think it was. It’s probably still there.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    I think adding printer drivers still has that same dialog.
    - einr 5y ago
      Adding printer drivers manually with the "Have Disk..." option still brings up a dialog box with an icon of a floppy disk that defaults to a path of A:\.

oefrha 5y ago

Even the context menu in File Explorer has two entirely different styles in Windows 11 — the old style along with all the third party items you need hidden behind a “Show more options”. UI consistency simply isn’t something they care about, the OS accumulates new inconsistencies with every release.

udbhavs 5y ago
I wonder if Windows or its UI will ever get a ground up rework considering how scared newer developers must be to touch the underlying legacy code base. That would probably require breaking backwards compatibility at some level and that doesn't look a principle MS is keen on abandoning. Windows 10X and RT both got abandoned. But on the other hand they can't keep piling stuff on top without fixing the core forever right? The context menu hack is already an example of the cracks beginning to show in this approach.
justsomehnguy 5y ago
> UI consistency simply isn’t something they care about While this is somewhat true (especially from Win8 onwards), one of the reasons you have "old-style" menu as a submenu is completely different: it is to make less calls to ContextMenuHandlers, used exactly for "all the third party items". It was a great addition in Win95. By the time of WinXP it was a source of many problems, but of course it was shitty Windows being shitty and not a 3rd party app problem.
- oefrha 5y ago
  It would be less jarring and defensible if the main menu and old-style submenu didn't have different font sizes, line heights (as a multiple of font size), icon sizes, margins, hover transitions, highlight colors, ctrl behaviors, etc.
concinds 5y ago
I'm glad that Microsoft agrees with Linus on: "Don't break userspace" The Apple way might have been to take away those old Config Panels with no replacement for years, or ever. Or breaking third-party File Explorer extensions and forcing devs to rewrite them.

mdb31 5y ago

The days when every new Windows feature came with a snazzy UI to configure it are long gone. Realistically, Server 2012R2 was the last release that had full parity between features and matching configuration 'screens'. Since that time (so: Server 2016, 2019 and 2022, and to a lesser extent the consumer SKUs), configuring new features has required PowerShell and/or WMI. This trend is unlikely to reverse anytime soon. Mostly because features are increasingly complicated. With Windows 10 and, especially, 11, the GUI parts of the configuration have been redone on a "whatever looks good and is usable for 80% of non-advanced users" basis. That this now requires "web" technologies is disappointing, but unsurprising. There just isn't a good "native GUI" story right now: not in the open source world, but especially not with Windows or macOS.

majkinetor 5y ago
> configuring new features has required PowerShell Which it should. Window should be PowerShell-first, and GUI eventually. Even more, GUI should use PowerShell so that you can configure stuff via GUI and export the script for automation. This then leaves to anybody to create GUI if they want, and GUI is just a PowerShell frontend.

WorldMaker 5y ago

In its own way, "these Settings you can only get to by opening a web browser and going to account.microsoft.com" is just as bad as "these Settings you can only get to by finding them in an older Control Panel", isn't it? Even assuming it is "zero sum" that this Settings page took resources away from other Settings migrations, it's still a net win for "Settings all in one place" isn't it? (In which the article also points out is unlikely to be a "zero sum" case here, because the whole point of using React Native is so that the team that is in charge of "account.microsoft.com" directly can own the Settings page and can share code in it with what they also run on account.microsoft.com. It seems highly unlikely that that web-based team has any other older Control Panel they "own", and more likely that if they own their own Settings page that a team that does own older Control Panels and new Settings pages doesn't have to "moonlight" or "hand hold" the web team's Settings work.)