5 ms·

What is “really” a race anyway? Why wouldn’t Hispanic be a real race, but being black be?

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Scientifically, "Black" is probably less of a race than "Hispanic" in a global context, possibly that's reversed if you focus just on USA though. And neither are really races as science says were all the human race, just if you were going to say genetic similarity is 'race' that would be the case because of the vast diversity in African genetics that happen to have dark skin (which isnt even necessary to be 'black' in the usa.)
- snicker7 5y ago
  Race is a social construct invented by colonizers (whites) as a way to categorize and other-ize everyone else. It has no biological or ethnic or cultural meaning. Race is not an inherent thing, but a complex relationship between groups of people with unequal power and privileges.
  - liaukovv 5y ago
    - dekhn 5y ago
      No, that's not what he's saying. Put in a scientific context, it's correct to say that people whose genetic history is derived entirely from african ancestors are biologically distinct from people whose ancestor left africa a long time ago and then evolved in the regions they resided for long periods. We see this from genomic sequences as well as visible phenotypes (which is what most racial classifications are based on).
      - liaukovv 5y ago
    - snicker7 5y ago
  - theandrewbailey 5y ago
    What about the non-white people who distinguish between themselves and other non-white people? Are they suddenly white?
throwaway599281 5y ago
Hispanic is just a bad name for the category as it is not a race as a descendent of portuguese or spanish, or any other european people, with no intermixture with native americans, or vice-versa, are both hispanics. Hence why Americans have to distinguish between white or non-white hispanics.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  >Hispanic is just a bad name for the category as it is not a race as a descendent of portuguese or spanish, or any other european people, with no intermixture with native americans, or vice-versa, are both hispanics. How is it any less meaningful than "black" that comprises ethnicities and mixes of ethnicities that vary far more than all(!) people outside of sub-Saharan Africa (in pre-globalization sense) taken together. >Hence why Americans have to distinguish between white or non-white hispanics. They also distinguish brown from black, African-American from black and god knows what else.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > They also distinguish brown from black, What, I thought that was just South Africa (under Apartheid)? > African-American from black I thought those were synonyms? > and god knows what else. Yeah, for a country ostensibly attempting to get away from its old racist ways, the USA seems remarkably fixated on the minutiae of distinguishing and registering "race".
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > > African-American from black > I thought those were synonyms? No, despite what the staff of my then-college’s newspaper apparently were thinking when writing about a visit by Winnie Mandela to the US, “African-American” and “black” are not synonyms.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        Duh, true, of course. I've seen (and laughed at) the same thing, "African-American" being used about immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa in Sweden, people who had never been near America. But what I (must have) meant to write was, "African-American" is pretty much the mandatory term to use for American Blacks, right? (<-- And should "Blacks" really be capitalised there?)
snicker7 5y ago
In the United States, you can be white Hispanic and non-white Hispanic. The term Hispanic just refers to anyone with heritage from a Spanish speaking country in the Americas. It is neither a race nor an ethnicity.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  >anyone with heritage from >It is neither a race nor an ethnicity. I wonder what you think race and ethnicity refer to if not heritage.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - snicker7 5y ago
    Countries in Latin America are composed of many races, nationalities, and ethnicities. They intersect, but are not equivalent.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Sure, race and ethnicity refer to heritage. But "hispanic" apparently means only... Well, les'see: A heritage from Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America. Countries which contain different races and ethnicities. So that leaves only a heritage of... the Spanish language, AFAICS. A linguistic heritage, not a racial or ethnic one.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
It's a race as much as "person from English speaking coubtry" is a race. It encompasses white Spaniards, black Dominicans, and indigenous people from Central and South America who don't necessarily speak Spanish themselves. There are two dictionary definitions of race: people sharing common biological features, and people in the same ethnic group. The biological features one clearly doesn't work. An ethnic group is a group of people who share a common cultural background or descent, but the cultures and descents of these people are very different.

Scientifically, "Black" is probably less of a race than "Hispanic" in a global context, possibly that's reversed if you focus just on USA though. And neither are really races as science says were all the human race, just if you were going to say genetic similarity is 'race' that would be the case because of the vast diversity in African genetics that happen to have dark skin (which isnt even necessary to be 'black' in the usa.)

snicker7 5y ago
Race is a social construct invented by colonizers (whites) as a way to categorize and other-ize everyone else. It has no biological or ethnic or cultural meaning. Race is not an inherent thing, but a complex relationship between groups of people with unequal power and privileges.
- liaukovv 5y ago
  - dekhn 5y ago
    No, that's not what he's saying. Put in a scientific context, it's correct to say that people whose genetic history is derived entirely from african ancestors are biologically distinct from people whose ancestor left africa a long time ago and then evolved in the regions they resided for long periods. We see this from genomic sequences as well as visible phenotypes (which is what most racial classifications are based on).
    - liaukovv 5y ago
  - snicker7 5y ago
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  What about the non-white people who distinguish between themselves and other non-white people? Are they suddenly white?

throwaway599281 5y ago

Hispanic is just a bad name for the category as it is not a race as a descendent of portuguese or spanish, or any other european people, with no intermixture with native americans, or vice-versa, are both hispanics. Hence why Americans have to distinguish between white or non-white hispanics.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago
>Hispanic is just a bad name for the category as it is not a race as a descendent of portuguese or spanish, or any other european people, with no intermixture with native americans, or vice-versa, are both hispanics. How is it any less meaningful than "black" that comprises ethnicities and mixes of ethnicities that vary far more than all(!) people outside of sub-Saharan Africa (in pre-globalization sense) taken together. >Hence why Americans have to distinguish between white or non-white hispanics. They also distinguish brown from black, African-American from black and god knows what else.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > They also distinguish brown from black, What, I thought that was just South Africa (under Apartheid)? > African-American from black I thought those were synonyms? > and god knows what else. Yeah, for a country ostensibly attempting to get away from its old racist ways, the USA seems remarkably fixated on the minutiae of distinguishing and registering "race".
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > > African-American from black > I thought those were synonyms? No, despite what the staff of my then-college’s newspaper apparently were thinking when writing about a visit by Winnie Mandela to the US, “African-American” and “black” are not synonyms.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Duh, true, of course. I've seen (and laughed at) the same thing, "African-American" being used about immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa in Sweden, people who had never been near America. But what I (must have) meant to write was, "African-American" is pretty much the mandatory term to use for American Blacks, right? (<-- And should "Blacks" really be capitalised there?)

snicker7 5y ago

In the United States, you can be white Hispanic and non-white Hispanic. The term Hispanic just refers to anyone with heritage from a Spanish speaking country in the Americas. It is neither a race nor an ethnicity.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago
>anyone with heritage from >It is neither a race nor an ethnicity. I wonder what you think race and ethnicity refer to if not heritage.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- snicker7 5y ago
  Countries in Latin America are composed of many races, nationalities, and ethnicities. They intersect, but are not equivalent.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Sure, race and ethnicity refer to heritage. But "hispanic" apparently means only... Well, les'see: A heritage from Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America. Countries which contain different races and ethnicities. So that leaves only a heritage of... the Spanish language, AFAICS. A linguistic heritage, not a racial or ethnic one.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

It's a race as much as "person from English speaking coubtry" is a race. It encompasses white Spaniards, black Dominicans, and indigenous people from Central and South America who don't necessarily speak Spanish themselves. There are two dictionary definitions of race: people sharing common biological features, and people in the same ethnic group. The biological features one clearly doesn't work. An ethnic group is a group of people who share a common cultural background or descent, but the cultures and descents of these people are very different.