4 ms·

For us, I would say in the UK, all are hard to hire. The main background issue is a lack of supply if you are not in a place to hire worldwide remote (which ma

For us, I would say in the UK, all are hard to hire. The main background issue is a lack of supply if you are not in a place to hire worldwide remote (which many companies are not). As a small company, doing the communications required for doing recruitment all in-house, as well as getting your job listings out to where people will find them is hard. However, using Recruiters is expensive and they have less ability to do quality filtering of applicants, especially since they are driven by commission more than quality so I think they would rather get us to interview someone who isn't a great match "just in case".

tsm 5y ago
I just moved from Chicago to Edinburgh, and have about ten years of experience doing full-stack webdev at various startups. I've looked into a few UK jobs and they all seem to pay about a third or at best half what I was making at my previous job with a SV startup. At some point my hand will be forced if I need a visa sponsorship, but for now it's a pretty tough sell.
- thorin 5y ago
  Ha, this is just the reality of things in Europe. I guess at least you get "free" healthcare, holidays and sick pay that you might not get in the US. Jobs in London (remote) would pay best I imagine. My role is paying London rate, even though I live in Nottingham. Previous to that I tried contracting which will pay you about twice what permanent work pays (if you have enough work), however that has been complicated since IR35.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  Since Brexit, the labour market is missing all Europeans. To work in the UK you have to leave the EU, or be treated as a lower status resident, or do a bunch of paperwork and pay import/export taxes. Employers have not accepted that that is a bill they must pay or workers won't join the UK market. If you move first, then look for a job, you just have to accept the local market conditions.
  - pyb 5y ago
    Also, as a EU citizen, your time working in the UK would no longer count towards your pension.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      Unless you're Irish, be ause that's been grandfathered in.
- shubb 5y ago
  Although I don't think such an option exists in the UK, several EU countries are offering "Digital Nomad" visas which give you a legitimate status while remaining employed by your SV company.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  You won't get the US comp/cost of living ratio anywhere in the world.
sshine 5y ago
> if you are not in a place to hire worldwide remote What prevents you (or others) from hiring remote?
Nextgrid 5y ago
> I would say in the UK, all are hard to hire. I always say that when it comes to lack of candidates there's this magical thing called "money" where if you throw more of it on the table the problem suddenly resolves itself. Recruiters and getting your job ad in front of more people is only needed when it's a hard sell; if it's an offer most people can't refuse then you just have to show it to a handful of people before you get someone who agrees.
- mmarq 5y ago
  > I always say that when it comes to lack of candidates there's this magical thing called "money" where if you throw more of it on the table the problem suddenly resolves itself. In the past few years, developers’ salaries have increased significantly in the continent. In Germany they are almost on par with London. So to convince somebody to move to the UK and go through the immigration checks, you have to pay more than the average British employer can afford. For 80-90K£, you are far better off getting 60K€ in Germany or Austria. I wouldn’t advise a EU citizen to move to the UK if they aren’t going to earn more than 120K£.
  - GianFabien 5y ago
    Many years ago I turned down a great job in London. The high salary wasn't enough to compensate for the far greater cost of living in London.
  - cassianoleal 5y ago
    > For 80-90K£, you are far better off getting 60K€ in Germany or Austria. That's around €95K-€107K. How is getting that in the UK (far) worse than €60K in those places? In any case, the parent's point stands: throw enough money at them and they will come.
    - mmarq 5y ago
      Because renting a half decent flat (new build, 60sqm, inner London) costs 2000£ per month, good food is extremely expensive (Waitrose would be an average supermarket in Southern Europe), the NHS is not as good as its continental homologues, so you have to pay for healthcare, public transport is very expensive, you have to deal with the immigration office (which western professionals aren’t used to), etc… The cheapest nursery in inner London cost more than 1600£ per month, so if you have a child you’ll need 4000-4500£ per month (or 75-80K per annum) just to put a roof over your head. If you want to live like a professional or save some money, you’ll have to multiply that by 2.
pyb 5y ago
The new reality is that UK companies will never be able to hire SW engineers as cheaply as they were able to in the last 15 years.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  I started on 30k in 2002 UK, now 150k Australia, goal is to double that in a year or so. Mostly through market over me being much better. I converted all to us$
- sage76 5y ago
  Lets play the world's smallest violin for the cheapskate hiring managers of UK.
phekunde 5y ago
In the UK, it is notoriously difficult to team-up with someone to build a startup. The mindset is very different. If you go to US, India or China, engineers are willing to take risk. In the UK, the conversation starts something like this: Me: "I am looking for a tech co-founder; the startup is at an ideation stage, and I have already talked to people who have shown interest in the project. I think having a tech co-founder at this stage will help a lot." Listener: "How much are you paying for the role?" Me: "This is an equity-based role because the startup is at an early stage." Listener: "So you want people to work for you for free??" This doesn't matter if the listener is an engineer or not. In the UK, there is little understanding of how very early stage startups work. It is equity based, that concept does not go down very well with the population.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Maybe the reason is that in the US, salaries are high enough that most engineers have a significant war chest saved up that allows them to take these gambles? In the UK, it's much harder because engineer salaries are nowhere near what the US pays.
  - raztogt21 5y ago
    This is it. You can take a lot of risks when you have 4 years of savings from a US-based tech company. I expect a lot of US founders will emerge from working remotely from a LCOL area for a couple of years, and then launching with a war chest.
  - phekunde 5y ago
    I think, yes, this could be the main reason for engineers.
- hcho 5y ago
  I wonder if something is getting lost in translation. With no particular order: Hearing the word ideation would cause an allergic in people who are sensitive against Americanisms. British are also notorius for their indirect way of expressing their thoughts and feelings. Instead of saying they do not believe in your idea or your ability to execute it, they'd prefer to use compensation as a get out.

tsm 5y ago

I just moved from Chicago to Edinburgh, and have about ten years of experience doing full-stack webdev at various startups. I've looked into a few UK jobs and they all seem to pay about a third or at best half what I was making at my previous job with a SV startup. At some point my hand will be forced if I need a visa sponsorship, but for now it's a pretty tough sell.

thorin 5y ago
Ha, this is just the reality of things in Europe. I guess at least you get "free" healthcare, holidays and sick pay that you might not get in the US. Jobs in London (remote) would pay best I imagine. My role is paying London rate, even though I live in Nottingham. Previous to that I tried contracting which will pay you about twice what permanent work pays (if you have enough work), however that has been complicated since IR35.
teknopaul 5y ago
Since Brexit, the labour market is missing all Europeans. To work in the UK you have to leave the EU, or be treated as a lower status resident, or do a bunch of paperwork and pay import/export taxes. Employers have not accepted that that is a bill they must pay or workers won't join the UK market. If you move first, then look for a job, you just have to accept the local market conditions.
- pyb 5y ago
  Also, as a EU citizen, your time working in the UK would no longer count towards your pension.
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Unless you're Irish, be ause that's been grandfathered in.
shubb 5y ago
Although I don't think such an option exists in the UK, several EU countries are offering "Digital Nomad" visas which give you a legitimate status while remaining employed by your SV company.
isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
You won't get the US comp/cost of living ratio anywhere in the world.

sshine 5y ago

> if you are not in a place to hire worldwide remote What prevents you (or others) from hiring remote?

Nextgrid 5y ago

> I would say in the UK, all are hard to hire. I always say that when it comes to lack of candidates there's this magical thing called "money" where if you throw more of it on the table the problem suddenly resolves itself. Recruiters and getting your job ad in front of more people is only needed when it's a hard sell; if it's an offer most people can't refuse then you just have to show it to a handful of people before you get someone who agrees.

mmarq 5y ago
> I always say that when it comes to lack of candidates there's this magical thing called "money" where if you throw more of it on the table the problem suddenly resolves itself. In the past few years, developers’ salaries have increased significantly in the continent. In Germany they are almost on par with London. So to convince somebody to move to the UK and go through the immigration checks, you have to pay more than the average British employer can afford. For 80-90K£, you are far better off getting 60K€ in Germany or Austria. I wouldn’t advise a EU citizen to move to the UK if they aren’t going to earn more than 120K£.
- GianFabien 5y ago
  Many years ago I turned down a great job in London. The high salary wasn't enough to compensate for the far greater cost of living in London.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  > For 80-90K£, you are far better off getting 60K€ in Germany or Austria. That's around €95K-€107K. How is getting that in the UK (far) worse than €60K in those places? In any case, the parent's point stands: throw enough money at them and they will come.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    Because renting a half decent flat (new build, 60sqm, inner London) costs 2000£ per month, good food is extremely expensive (Waitrose would be an average supermarket in Southern Europe), the NHS is not as good as its continental homologues, so you have to pay for healthcare, public transport is very expensive, you have to deal with the immigration office (which western professionals aren’t used to), etc… The cheapest nursery in inner London cost more than 1600£ per month, so if you have a child you’ll need 4000-4500£ per month (or 75-80K per annum) just to put a roof over your head. If you want to live like a professional or save some money, you’ll have to multiply that by 2.

pyb 5y ago

The new reality is that UK companies will never be able to hire SW engineers as cheaply as they were able to in the last 15 years.

quickthrower2 5y ago
I started on 30k in 2002 UK, now 150k Australia, goal is to double that in a year or so. Mostly through market over me being much better. I converted all to us$
sage76 5y ago
Lets play the world's smallest violin for the cheapskate hiring managers of UK.

phekunde 5y ago

In the UK, it is notoriously difficult to team-up with someone to build a startup. The mindset is very different. If you go to US, India or China, engineers are willing to take risk. In the UK, the conversation starts something like this: Me: "I am looking for a tech co-founder; the startup is at an ideation stage, and I have already talked to people who have shown interest in the project. I think having a tech co-founder at this stage will help a lot." Listener: "How much are you paying for the role?" Me: "This is an equity-based role because the startup is at an early stage." Listener: "So you want people to work for you for free??" This doesn't matter if the listener is an engineer or not. In the UK, there is little understanding of how very early stage startups work. It is equity based, that concept does not go down very well with the population.

Nextgrid 5y ago
Maybe the reason is that in the US, salaries are high enough that most engineers have a significant war chest saved up that allows them to take these gambles? In the UK, it's much harder because engineer salaries are nowhere near what the US pays.
- raztogt21 5y ago
  This is it. You can take a lot of risks when you have 4 years of savings from a US-based tech company. I expect a lot of US founders will emerge from working remotely from a LCOL area for a couple of years, and then launching with a war chest.
- phekunde 5y ago
  I think, yes, this could be the main reason for engineers.
hcho 5y ago
I wonder if something is getting lost in translation. With no particular order: Hearing the word ideation would cause an allergic in people who are sensitive against Americanisms. British are also notorius for their indirect way of expressing their thoughts and feelings. Instead of saying they do not believe in your idea or your ability to execute it, they'd prefer to use compensation as a get out.