5 ms·

I found a solution for Firfox on Ubuntu MATE: 1. go to about:config 2. find widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.size.override 3. Change to some pixel value (I

by rland 5y ago

I found a solution for Firfox on Ubuntu MATE: 1. go to about:config 2. find widget.non-native-theme.scrollbar.size.override 3. Change to some pixel value (I have mine set at 26). voila! I do not understand why the default is so thin. Really bucks the trend of every UI element being touch-screen large nowadays!

zozbot234 5y ago
Because if you have touchscreens you can use two-finger gestures, and if you're on a mouse you'll have no issue targeting a thin widget. It makes a lot of sense from that POV.
- rland 5y ago
  It would -- but it's set so thin by default that I have trouble targeting it with my mouse!
  - anchpop 5y ago
    For a fullscreen window it would be nice if moving the mouse all the way to the right edge was sufficient to target the scrollbar, but that doesn't work in Chrome on my mac
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      My browser is rarely against the RH side of my display, or even on the RH sie of my screen. My preferred informational / programming layout is browser on left, terminal on right. And in any multi-window layout, any window not aligned with the right-hand display border remains difficult to target.
- saturn_vk 5y ago
  You can also use the scroll wheel of the mouse just fine, or the TouchPad scroll gesture. I don't even remember that the scrollbars are invisible anymore
- Lukineus 5y ago
  Some touchpads also support gesture scrolling.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  If the thin widget is directly against the edge of the viewport, maybe. If it's literally anywhere else on the screen, then no, Fitts's Law applies, and it's a bad target. It has height but no width. This is especially true for those with motor or visual handicaps, or both. It's damned near unusable even with very modest levels of distraction or other factors, e.g., using a device as a passenger on a moving vehicle, as with a boat, train, or airplane.
  - hyperhopper 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure boats trains and airplanes are all vehicles.
  - yellowapple 5y ago
    > If the thin widget is directly against the edge of the viewport, maybe. It is. Visually there's space between the scroll handle and the window edge, but if you actually point the cursor in that space it'll highlight the handle.
    - einr 5y ago
      This feels pretty weird on macOS in a way I never realized, because I thought you were wrong but you're actually right -- you can slam the cursor right against the right edge of the screen and the scroll handle lights up and you can click and drag it if you start an up/down mouse motion -- but the cursor changes to the left-right resize one and if you start by moving left/right it resizes the window instead and the scrolling motion is cancelled. I guess thinking about it this is a very reasonable compromise, but it feels weird to start scrolling up and down with a cursor that shows a left-right arrow and that is technically pointing outside of the scroll bar.
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        That may work on MacOS. It ... doesn't work for any Linux desktop, most especially those using Focus Follows Mouse (certainly for strict, often for lazy) policy. Though that's useful to know.
floren 5y ago
Thank you, this is a big improvement. I'd rather have a nice chunky Motif-style scrollbar but it's better than nothing.
Jenk 5y ago
> I do not understand why the default is so thin. For scroll/touch users, the scrollbar has become an indicator only, and not so much a tool for scrolling, to show where on the document the window is.
- rhizome 5y ago
  There are times when I'd love to have page up/down on a tablet.
- floatboth 5y ago
  For mouse too, actually. I grew up with scroll wheel mice so I literally never had a reason to use a scrollbar to scroll.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Yeah the scroll wheel was a big quality of life improvement when it came in. I wouldn't want to do without anymore. Though I mainly use pgup/pgdn to scroll. I wish the keyboard had a big scroll wheel. Some 90s keyboards did, like a big rod. But now if there is one it's for volume control only.
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    really? what about really long pages? I frequently have to grab the thumb and because the scroll wheel takes ages
  - account42 5y ago
    Scroll wheel tends to be quite slow compared to dragging the scrollbar for large views so they really don't replace each other.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  Even as an indicator I like it larger than many places set it to by default. I am also on pretty large 27" monitors though
- Gigachad 5y ago
  This is not true. On iOS I absolutely can grab the scroll bar and drag it around like normal. It even makes a solid click when the grab is active. It just isn’t super prominent like old desktop OSs had it.
FpUser 5y ago
It seems that "modern" UI designers want a look and do not give a flying fuck about ergonomics (on desktop at least)
Melatonic 5y ago
Does not seem to affect my Firefox setup on Windows but I need to do more testing. I have a scrollwheel on my mouse and still hate the damn tiny scrollbars!
SanchoPanda 5y ago
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
anderspitman 5y ago
I should have just kept reading. When I saw the parent comment it got me thinking I really should see how easy it is to change the scrollbar size in Firefox. Took me a few minutes to find exactly the instructions you shared.

by rland 5y ago

zozbot234 5y ago

Because if you have touchscreens you can use two-finger gestures, and if you're on a mouse you'll have no issue targeting a thin widget. It makes a lot of sense from that POV.

rland 5y ago
It would -- but it's set so thin by default that I have trouble targeting it with my mouse!
- anchpop 5y ago
  For a fullscreen window it would be nice if moving the mouse all the way to the right edge was sufficient to target the scrollbar, but that doesn't work in Chrome on my mac
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    My browser is rarely against the RH side of my display, or even on the RH sie of my screen. My preferred informational / programming layout is browser on left, terminal on right. And in any multi-window layout, any window not aligned with the right-hand display border remains difficult to target.
saturn_vk 5y ago
You can also use the scroll wheel of the mouse just fine, or the TouchPad scroll gesture. I don't even remember that the scrollbars are invisible anymore
Lukineus 5y ago
Some touchpads also support gesture scrolling.
dredmorbius 5y ago
If the thin widget is directly against the edge of the viewport, maybe. If it's literally anywhere else on the screen, then no, Fitts's Law applies, and it's a bad target. It has height but no width. This is especially true for those with motor or visual handicaps, or both. It's damned near unusable even with very modest levels of distraction or other factors, e.g., using a device as a passenger on a moving vehicle, as with a boat, train, or airplane.
- hyperhopper 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure boats trains and airplanes are all vehicles.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  > If the thin widget is directly against the edge of the viewport, maybe. It is. Visually there's space between the scroll handle and the window edge, but if you actually point the cursor in that space it'll highlight the handle.
  - einr 5y ago
    This feels pretty weird on macOS in a way I never realized, because I thought you were wrong but you're actually right -- you can slam the cursor right against the right edge of the screen and the scroll handle lights up and you can click and drag it if you start an up/down mouse motion -- but the cursor changes to the left-right resize one and if you start by moving left/right it resizes the window instead and the scrolling motion is cancelled. I guess thinking about it this is a very reasonable compromise, but it feels weird to start scrolling up and down with a cursor that shows a left-right arrow and that is technically pointing outside of the scroll bar.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      That may work on MacOS. It ... doesn't work for any Linux desktop, most especially those using Focus Follows Mouse (certainly for strict, often for lazy) policy. Though that's useful to know.

floren 5y ago

Thank you, this is a big improvement. I'd rather have a nice chunky Motif-style scrollbar but it's better than nothing.

Jenk 5y ago

> I do not understand why the default is so thin. For scroll/touch users, the scrollbar has become an indicator only, and not so much a tool for scrolling, to show where on the document the window is.

rhizome 5y ago
There are times when I'd love to have page up/down on a tablet.
floatboth 5y ago
For mouse too, actually. I grew up with scroll wheel mice so I literally never had a reason to use a scrollbar to scroll.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Yeah the scroll wheel was a big quality of life improvement when it came in. I wouldn't want to do without anymore. Though I mainly use pgup/pgdn to scroll. I wish the keyboard had a big scroll wheel. Some 90s keyboards did, like a big rod. But now if there is one it's for volume control only.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  really? what about really long pages? I frequently have to grab the thumb and because the scroll wheel takes ages
- account42 5y ago
  Scroll wheel tends to be quite slow compared to dragging the scrollbar for large views so they really don't replace each other.
Melatonic 5y ago
Even as an indicator I like it larger than many places set it to by default. I am also on pretty large 27" monitors though
Gigachad 5y ago
This is not true. On iOS I absolutely can grab the scroll bar and drag it around like normal. It even makes a solid click when the grab is active. It just isn’t super prominent like old desktop OSs had it.

FpUser 5y ago

It seems that "modern" UI designers want a look and do not give a flying fuck about ergonomics (on desktop at least)

Melatonic 5y ago

Does not seem to affect my Firefox setup on Windows but I need to do more testing. I have a scrollwheel on my mouse and still hate the damn tiny scrollbars!

SanchoPanda 5y ago

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

anderspitman 5y ago

I should have just kept reading. When I saw the parent comment it got me thinking I really should see how easy it is to change the scrollbar size in Firefox. Took me a few minutes to find exactly the instructions you shared.